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Pyrate Jenni ([info]pyratejenni) wrote in [info]bad_penny,
@ 2006-08-09 21:21:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Gobsmacked

Heidi's Homages or, "I Can't Believe It's Not Plagiarism!"



Welcome back, my friends
to the show that never ends.
We're so glad you could attend!
Come inside! Come inside!


-- Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Karn Evil 9 1st Impression Part 2


This is -- hopefully -- the last post on BNF plagiarists in the Harry Potter fandom. I make no promises of its ability to keep the reader fascinated: I'm not [info]charlottelennox and I don't have her skill. I can't promise any Funneh. I'm still rather gobsmacked about all this. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, nor do I play one on the internet TV, but I am a Pushy Bitch of the Midwest, and I 've got this bad habit of stating my opinions. Which I do, herein.

If hearing opinions that are not nicely worded offend you, turn back now.

Many hands helped pulled the evidence for this post together. Thank you, all.

Putting My Cards on the Table:

I don't like Heidi.

There's no deep-seated, personal reason for this. We've never interacted, in fandom or out, except for a few random, unpleasant exchanges on [info]fandom_wank and LiveJournal. Over the last four years, that's not enough to build up a deep-seated personal dislike, at least for me.

And those exchanges were unpleasant because they were about the reason why I don't like Heidi: her behavior.

I didn't like her playing on the attitude "fandom takes care of its own" when Cassie's laptop was stolen, and then "it was just among Cassie's friends" backpeddling that followed. I didn't like her "but I can't stop them!" attitude during Charitywank when her journal readers -- including msscribe -- went over to Christina's LJ and flamed her. I didn't like her put-upon "why do I have to do it?" whining when asked to take ten seconds and host a link to Christina's charity.

I didn't like her threatening people with libel whenever Cassie Claire was accused of plagiarism. I didn't like her Heidipatrol popping up whenever someone dared to say the Draco Trilogy or anything else Cassie wrote wasn't the best thing since JKR had an idea about a boy wizard.

I didn't like her calling [info]charlottelennox's posts on msscribe libelous and lies. I didn't like her lame excuses. I didn't like her sacrificing [info]ari_o to save her own skin.

"But, [info]pyratejenni," I can hear someone ask, "that's just her online behavior. Is that really enough to dislike someone?"

Of course it is, considering the only way we interact at all is online.

And I hear, "So why are you writing this? Why not someone impartial?"

At this point, I don't think I could find someone impartial to write this. I showed excerpts of it someone not even in HP fandom, and her response was frothing outrage. [info]white_serpent didn't want to. So I offered.

Besides, it's my community. Why shouldn't I write it?

"But why? This is so old!"

Because I think it helps explain why Heidi was vigilantly defending Cassie from the plagiarism accusations.

The Evidence

A Surfeit of Curses, Chapter 6
He perched in the window seat at the front of the Lemur, so far away from the bustle that it was not agreeable to be dragged back suddenly by a shout from Lucius as he entered the room. Never did Draco find anything so difficult as to keeping himself from losing his temper when he was suddenly disturbed while absorbed in a book. People who are fond of books know the feeling of irritation which sweeps over them at such a moment. "It makes me feel as if someone had hit me," he had said once. "And as if I want to hit back. I have to remember things quickly to keep from saying something ill-tempered." The temptation to be unreasonable and snappish is one not easy to manage, but around Lucius, it had to be done.

He returned to reality as quickly as he could, and took a few subtle yet deep breaths to calm himself down.


Frances Hodgson Burnett, A Little Princess, Chapter 6
Sara curled herself up in the window-seat, opened a book, and began to read.
...
She was so far away from the schoolroom that it was not agreeable to be dragged back suddenly by a howl from Lottie. Never did she find anything so difficult as to keep herself from losing her temper when she was suddenly disturbed while absorbed in a book. People who are fond of books know the feeling of irritation which sweeps over them at such a moment. The temptation to be unreasonable and snappish is one not easy to manage.

"It makes me feel as if someone had hit me," Sara had told Ermengarde once in confidence. "And as if I want to hit back. I have to remember things quickly to keep from saying something ill- tempered."

She had to remember things quickly when she laid her book on the window-seat and jumped down from her comfortable corner.



But wait! There's more!



A Surfeit of Curses,Chapter 9
"At school, Alexi had such a sharp, delicate face, and was so pale - the color of ivory. His eyes were too big for him, and he had a lot of hair which tumbled over his forehead and made his thin face seem smaller. He always looked as if he had been ill, and was prone to fits of crying, more as if he were tired and cross than in pain. When I saw him in the corridors, especially at night, he looked like a ghost, and like he had as much substance as a ghost as well. But afterwards, he looked and moved and spoke exactly like Lucius did - he would say things after Lucius, almost word for word the same. It was uncanny. He wasn't even a shadow of himself. He was a shadow of Lucius."</i>



Francis Hodgson Burnett,The Secret Garden Chapter 13:

The boy had a sharp, delicate face the color of ivory and he seemed to have eyes too big for it. He had also a lot of hair which tumbled over his forehead in heavy locks and made his thin face seem smaller. He looked like a boy who had been ill, but he was crying more as if he were tired and cross than as if he were in pain.

Mary stood near the door with her candle in her hand, holding her breath. Then she crept across the room, and, as she drew nearer, the light attracted the boy's attention and he turned his head on his pillow and stared at her, his gray eyes opening so wide that they seemed immense.

"Who are you?" he said at last in a half-frightened whisper. "Are you a ghost?"


And from another author:




A Surfeit of Curses,Chapter 3

March stood for a few minutes without switching on the lights, looking out at the broom traffic over the town. Then he went into the kitchen and Summoned a large glass of Ogden's Old Firewhisky. Monday's Daily Prophet was lying by the sink. He carried it back with him into the sitting room.

March had a routine for reading the paper. He stared at the back, which held the truth. If the
Cannons were said to have beaten the Falcons 140 - 60 at Quidditch, the chances were it was true: even the Party had yet to devise a means of rewriting sports results. The sports news was a different matter. Countdown to Hogsmeade Olympics - Australia May Compete for First Time in 28 Years - British Magic Still Leads World. Then the advertisements: Families Love Vacations In Stonehenge, Riviera of Magical Britain. Births, marriages and deaths...

An editorial on the student pro-Muggle demonstrations in Godric's Corner, where there was still a rebel enclave: Traitors Must Be Smashed By Force! The Prophet always took a firm line.

Obituary: some old
gent from the Ministry of Magic. "A lifetime's service to He Who Must Be Obeyed..."

Ministry news: Spring Thaw Brings Fresh Fighting on Siberian Front! British Troops Smash Ivan Terror Groups! In Normandy, five terrorist leaders had been executed for attempting to use a Portkey to bring a mudblood and her family to their hideout in the Pyrenees...


Robert Harris, Fatherland, page 39 and 40:


March stood for a few minutes without switching on the lights, looking down at the traffic
heading south to Wittenberg-Platz. Then he went into the kitchen and poured himself a large whisky. Monday's Berliner Tageblatt was lying by the sink. He carried it back with him into the sitting room.

March had a routine for reading the paper. He started at the back, which held the truth. If
Leipzig </b>was said to have beaten Cologne 4-0 at football, the chances were it was true: even the Party had yet to devise a means of rewriting the sports results. The sports news was a different matter. COUNTDOWN TO TOKYO OLYMPICS. U.S. MAY COMPETE FOR FIRST TIME IN 28 YEARS. GERMAN ATHLETES STILL LEAD WORLD. Then the advertisements: GERMAN FAMILIES! PLEASURE BECKONS IN GOTENLAND, RIVIERA OF THE REICH! French perfume, Italian silks, Scandinavian furs, Dutch cigars, Belgian coffee, Russian caviar, British televisions-- the cornucopia of Empire spilled across the pages. Births, marriages and deaths: TEBBE, Ernst and Ingrid; a son for the Fuhrer. WENZAL, Hans, aged 71; a true National Socialist, sadly missed.

...

Editorial on the student antiwar demonstrations in Heidelberg: TRAITORS MUST BE SMASHED BY FORCE! The Tageblatt always took a firm line.

Obituary: some old
Bonze from the Ministry of the Interior. "A lifetime's service to the Reich . . ."

Reich news: SPRING THAW BRINGS FRESH FIGHTING ON SIBERIAN FRONT! GERMAN TROOPS SMASH IVAN TERROR GROUPS! In Rovno, capital of the Reichskommissariat Ukraine, five terrorist leaders had been executed for organizing the massacre of a family of German settlers.


And poetry


A Surfeit of Curses, Chapter 4

"Somebody said, "Let's all hold hands,"
So Lee held hands with Jean.

And Jean also held Helen's hand

While she held hands with Dean.

Dean's other hand held Sharma Joy's

While she held hands with Lee.

So tell me just how did I wind up

Holdin' hands with me?"

Shel Silverstein,Hand Holding,Falling Up

Somebody said, "Lets all hold hands,"
So Lee held hands with Jean
And Jean also held Helen's hand
While she held hands with Dean.
Dean's other hand helped Sharma Joy's
While she held hands with Lee.
So tell me just how did I wind up
Holdin' hands with me?




When I saw all this, I was dumbfounded. Because, to answer [info]bnfshavemorefun's comment,these works aren't cited.

Oh, there's disclaimers, all right:

Chapter 3. Chapter 4. Chapter 6. Chapter 8. Chapter 9 .

(And other, more interesting disclaimers found on the HP_Paradise mailing list: Chapter 1. Concern. Titanic.)

And there's citations: Chapter 3. Chapter 4. Chapter 6. Chapter 8 Chapter 9. Chapter 9 citation, part 2

To further answer Aja's comment, now that I can without using all-caps and blistering the air blue, these are not citations.

I will repeat: These are not citations. These are not the citations I had to use in high school. These are not the citations friends of mine had to use in college. These are not the MLA-style citaions we used when I helped proofread a small-press magazine, Cup of Wonder. These disclaimers aren't worth the pressure it took to hit the keys.

This isn't a pastiche. This isn't a homage. It doesn't matter that Frances Hogson Burnett's works are out of copyright. Silverstein's hasn't expired, and neither has Harris'.

This is plagiarism.

And to my mind, that's why Heidi came down so hard on anyone who said the P-word about Cassie. Much like the banker who's really just borrowing the money, not embezzling, and the stock broker who's really just using a friendly tip, not insider trading at all, I think Heidi convinced herself she wasn't plagiarizing, really. All her friends were doing it, so it had to be okay. This is Standard Operating Procedure for fandom, too, right?

I've been in fandom since 1983, and theft -- lying -- of this kind has never been Standard Operating Procedure. Never.

And for all the lurkers and mice who want to blow this off with, "So what, Heidi doesn't have a book contract, it's just fandom!" --

Let me hear you say that the next time your work gets "homaged", sugar.

God, I wish I could drink. At this point, I need one.






Remember reading in [info]white_serpent's write-up, about how Heidi's friends were leaving FF.net, because they didn't want what happened to Cassie to happen to them?

One of them was AngieJ, aka Ebony:



Trouble in Paradise,Chapter 7

"Darling, your pregnancy is the least of your concerns right now," her father said quickly. Theodore Granger was a distinguished-looking man, with salt-and-pepper brown hair and a noble carriage. He always reminded me of Hermione, especially around the eyes. "Your priority is to land back on your feet soon as possible, isn’t it?"

She shook her head. "Dad, I can feel something isn’t right. You know I’m not keen on pretending things. Tell me, Ron, and tell me now. Did our baby make it?" The twins and Malinda were already gone. I closed the door, leaving the couple alone with Hermione’s parents. Hermione’s voice was already full of anguish, and we already knew the sad truth that she would soon find out.

The minute the door closed behind me, I heard a pitiful, heartbroken moan. It was Hermione... she’d just been told about her loss.


In all of recorded Weasley history, nothing like this had ever happened before. When a Weasley wife got pregnant, she always carried to term. Plain and simple. Even if the woman herself came from a family with a history of miscarriage, like Penelope’s, it didn’t seem to matter much. A case in point was when I’d developed a rather nasty blood infection while carrying Malinda... she was none the worse for the wear. Fred even told me that Arthur’s sister had fallen down two flights of stairs while five months pregnant. The woman broke both legs and a collarbone, but delivered a healthy baby boy four months later.

Needless to say, Hermione’s miscarriage came as a shock to all.

"Oh, the poor lamb--the poor lamb!" Molly was trying to stifle her sobs in the folds of Arthur’s robes. "I feel horrible for criticizing her... the poor, poor lamb! How can she bear it?"

Arthur put his arms around his wife and patted her head. "There, there, Molly. Hermione’s strong. She’ll make it through this. And so will Ron."



L.M. Montgomery,Anne's House of Dreams,Chapter 19, Dawn and Dusk

At first she was too weak and too happy to notice that Gilbert and the nurse looked grave and Marilla sorrowful. Then, as subtly, and coldly, and remorselessly as a sea-fog stealing landward, fear crept into her heart. Why was not Gilbert gladder? Why would he not talk about the baby? Why would they not let her have it with her after that first heavenly--happy hour? Was--was there anything wrong?

Gilbert," whispered Anne imploringly, "the baby--is all right--isn't she? Tell me--tell me."

Gilbert was a long while in turning round; then he bent over Anne and looked in her eyes. Marilla, listening fearfully outside the door, heard a pitiful, heartbroken moan, and fled to the kitchen where Susan was weeping.

"Oh, the poor lamb--the poor lamb! How can she bear it, Miss Cuthbert? I am afraid it will kill her.
She has been that built up and happy, longing for that baby, and planning for it. Cannot anything be done nohow, Miss Cuthbert?"

"I'm afraid not, Susan. Gilbert says there is no hope. He knew from the first the little thing couldn't live."



There's citations. Christ on a cracker, are there citations:
One ,two,three, four. I've seen album liner notes that didn't go on that long.

Oh, yeah -- and a disclaimer.

Again, not citations, boys and girls.

Wonder if the two-year-old beer in the fridge is still good ...




ETA: Corrected FHB's name, Robert Harris' name, removed Heidi's last name, did a touch-up on one of the sections refering to Aja. Thanks to [info]white_serpent and [info]kijikun for the heads-up on the authors!



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(Post a new comment)


[info]hobbitsexual
2006-08-10 06:37 am UTC (link)
that is NOT citation.

there is a big difference between saying 'this inspired by' and copying WHOLE CHUNKS OF TEXT.

I've read SG and ALP so many times I would've recognised them both immediately... and that they were word for word.

So Frances Hodgson Burnett is out of copyright - BFD. How does that excuse plagiarising, ie trying to pass someone else's work off as your own? Completely lacks class, although at least Heidi, like Cassie, has taste. I just can't even comprehend... ripping someone off... horrific! I would so much rather use my own talent, skills and imagination to devise something. I can't even fathom it. Why would you even bother? I'd be ashamed.

(Reply to this)


[info]ashenmote
2006-08-10 07:08 am UTC (link)
Those damn Harry Potter plagiarists.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-08-10 08:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashenmote, 2006-08-10 09:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-08-10 02:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-08-10 02:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 04:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-08-10 06:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slackerbitch, 2006-08-14 08:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]camilla, 2006-08-10 04:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2006-08-10 05:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-08-10 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashenmote, 2006-08-10 08:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fearthainn, 2006-08-10 09:37 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 07:13 am UTC (link)
I'm just...wow.

I've been online and in fandom since late 1999 (fortunately, never actually in HP) and this just astounds me to a level of utter speechlessness.

Considering that I was iffy about writing fanfic period (because of legal issues and plagiarism), the idea of lifting entire chunks of other people's hard work and passing them off as your own sickens and appals me. To then say that "it's ok, it's just fanfic", makes me feel worse because it's not OK. It's something that's NEVER been OK and should NEVER be OK.

And the irony of all this is a friend of mine's just discovered a new case of plagiarism in the fandoms I do haunt. That, though, is just a case of someone word-for-word copying someone else's story. It's whackamole and the moron (who, by the by, did the PR equivalent of cribbing the DT - the story she picked is that well known!) in question is being utterly whacked as we speak.

This? This is just absurd and frightening on a whole new level.

--Athersgeo on LJ

(Reply to this)


[info]flyingphoenix
2006-08-10 07:24 am UTC (link)
Wow...one thing I don't get if a friend get kicked from FF.net because of plagiarsm because she didn't cite this novels etc why didn't they just edit their own disclaimer esp. if they opened a new FanFic-site? That seriously I don't get...it takes less time then to post a new chapter. On FF.net its just a matter of seconds and if I'm not that wrong you don't even lose reviews.

I think it was Lewis who said Pride is one of the worst sins....well...

(Reply to this)


[info]warrioreowyn
2006-08-10 07:37 am UTC (link)
On the one hand, I DON'T think it's necessary to use the MLA styleguide for citations in fanfic; say where stuff comes from and the technicalities are irrelevant, IMO. It's fanfic, not an academic document.

However - what she did is still plagiarism, simply because she claimed she was "inspired by" the passages, rather than acknowleging she copied them pretty much verbatim. If you write the same type of scene, in your own words, because you liked the ones in the book - that's being inspired by it. Copying isn't inspiration. For someone smart enough to get a law degree, Heidi seems pretty thick.

(Reply to this)


dearladydisdain
2006-08-10 07:52 am UTC (link)
Well...fuck.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 12:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 01:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rawles, 2006-08-10 05:08 pm UTC

[info]drakyndra
2006-08-10 08:02 am UTC (link)
What. The shit.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ladylauren, 2006-08-10 09:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drakyndra, 2006-08-10 09:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladylauren, 2006-08-10 09:24 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 11:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladylauren, 2006-08-10 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]qem_chibati, 2006-08-11 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladylauren, 2006-08-11 10:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady7jane, 2006-08-11 04:04 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 08:43 am UTC (link)
Like I said elsewhere, there ought to be a special level of hell reserved for this lot.

Luckily, I only read the DT. If I'd read any of Heidi's stuff, I'd have been spewing vitriol right now. Frances Hodgson Burnett plagiarism? I most likely wouldn't have immediately spotted it, given that I'd heard people talking about the two characters and had read similar... but, damn.

I'm guessing, though, that they just really didn't think anything was wrong. And when Cassie got caught out, everyone defended her, while making sure their own stories weren't mentioned.

Apologies to them, because I do feel sorry about their getting picked on like this... but if they'd cited in the first place, there wouldn't be nearly the amount of trouble. Or the publicity, but, hell, that does cut both ways.

I'm just surprised it took so long.

- Melata_fic on lj, anonymous on JF.

(Reply to this)


[info]chowderhead
2006-08-10 10:37 am UTC (link)
Sigh.

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]melllvar, 2006-08-10 01:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]imbrium, 2006-08-10 07:39 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 11:05 am UTC (link)
Okay, so who's always thought that Laptopgate was CC pulling a less obvious Cousin Jean and getting paid to sit on her ass and 'write'?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ehann, 2006-08-10 11:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evieangelique, 2006-08-11 03:37 am UTC

[info]lumaria
2006-08-10 11:43 am UTC (link)
If I plagiarize, does this make me a BNF? It seems to be a prerequisite for the job these days.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2006-08-10 12:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lumaria, 2006-08-10 12:36 pm UTC

[info]pfeffermuse
2006-08-10 12:17 pm UTC (link)
My mind boggles over all this. These people are (and were when this was going down) all adults. That they would do all this for so-called fandom notoriety...I'm frothing over the plagiarism. I'm sickened by the subterfuge. And I'm reviled by the "litigation club".

People have been using the word "pride" in an attempt to put a handle on such callous behaviour. It was never about pride. Let's cut to the chase: It was arrogance. It was power. It was control.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pfeffermuse, 2006-08-10 03:14 pm UTC

[info]ingrid
2006-08-10 12:26 pm UTC (link)
To me, this isn't as mind-blowing as CC's word stealing because a) Heidi's BNF'dom isn't based upon her writing (it's more as an archivist and fannish "law" presence) and b) it was probably encouraged by CC herself as the cool thing to do or Heidi did it to prove a point, that putting little 'surprises" consisting of someone else's hard work and build your story around those was A-Okay.

Look, Even I Do It and Like Star Jones, I'M A LAWYER! So it must be all right!

That being said, plagiarism sucks. Fics that are riddled with it should be killed, killed with rocks and their "authors" shunned. Period.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]puffkrispy, 2006-08-10 03:12 pm UTC

[info]exdee
2006-08-10 12:42 pm UTC (link)
She fucked with Burnett, Silverstein, and Montgomery?

Oh my fucking god, my childhood.

(Reply to this)


[info]esclaramonde
2006-08-10 12:53 pm UTC (link)
Omfg you do NOT do that with Frances Hodgson Burnett. You do NOT. I spent my childhood scraping bark of twigs to see if they were wick and clearing circles around small plants. YOU JUST DON'T MESS WITH THAT.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]izzygal, 2006-08-10 01:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]azazello, 2006-08-10 01:19 pm UTC
GIP - [info]redcoast, 2006-08-10 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-11 12:31 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 01:03 pm UTC (link)
Let me hear you say that the next time your work gets "homaged", sugar.

Exactly! hehe I love when someone adds an endearment at the end of snark.

kerryblaze

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 01:27 pm UTC (link)
I realise that you have excerpts from other novels and writers, examples that aren't cited in several BNF's works, but step back and really look at it: Does it even matter? Does it even matter to you? Does it affect you in any way? None of these BNF's, to my knowledge, are planning to publish these works of fiction? Most likely not.

Plagiarism is a touchy subject, and I obviously agree that it should be discouraged. But do we all have so little left in our lives to think about than to complain about BNFs that the majority of us will probably never meet? Is complaining the only thing we can do anymore? Can't we praise how large the fandom has grown, how more mature aspects of the fandom are, how fandom doesn't just cater to BNFs anymore?

I don't know. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just think that we have better things to do than complain about online stories and personas and provide evidence of the faults, don't we?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smut_queen, 2006-08-10 01:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-08-10 02:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 02:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-08-10 03:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashenmote, 2006-08-10 02:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-08-10 02:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 05:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-08-10 02:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 06:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dorothy1901, 2006-08-10 02:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 05:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-08-10 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-08-10 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-08-10 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 02:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 05:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2006-08-10 08:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melllvar, 2006-08-10 02:21 pm UTC
Brava! - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 02:26 pm UTC
Re: Brava! - [info]melllvar, 2006-08-10 02:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-10 02:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 02:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melllvar, 2006-08-10 02:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-10 02:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melllvar, 2006-08-10 03:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]redcoast, 2006-08-10 04:46 pm UTC
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AHAHAHA. - [info]la_viv, 2006-08-10 02:34 pm UTC
Re: AHAHAHA. - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-08-10 02:37 pm UTC
Re: AHAHAHA. - sockpuppet_rat, 2006-08-10 02:42 pm UTC
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[info]renata_hpjc
2006-08-10 01:27 pm UTC (link)
Damn, I couldn't give a flying fuck about Heidi -- although holy shit, those passages are so far beyond "inspired by" that they may as well be in a different galazy -- but I really respected Ebony. And I had loved the out-of-control over-the-top melodrama of TiP. The example given might not be as awful as most of CC's, and it doesn't even approach the flat-out C&P of Heidi's borrowings, but it's damn well still plagiarism. Fuck fuck fuckity fuck.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 01:29 pm UTC (link)
Something I heard was that CC posted her stories to a mailing list prior to posting it to ff.net. I was told that they had a game going on that ml. Something like "Find the quotations and where they come from" and that's why there are all those quotations in CCs (and Heidi's?) stories. As far as I heard, CC just "forgot" to add she'd used quotations when she posted the stories on ff.net.

Can anyone confirm that? Has there truly ever been such a game?

Not that it makes anything any better...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]renata_hpjc, 2006-08-10 02:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 07:46 pm UTC

[info]an_igor
2006-08-10 01:39 pm UTC (link)
And here I was, writing final papers last term and thinking it'd actually be much less trouble if I could just write the crap I wanted to say rather than having to hunt down the passage in the text so I could quote it. Plagiarism for fiction always seemed to me rather too time-consuming to even contemplate the effort, especially word-for-word crap like this.

(Reply to this)


[info]atalantapendrag
2006-08-10 01:52 pm UTC (link)
I... words fail.

I'm going to go re-read A LITTLE PRINCESS now.

...if anyone plagarizes DAVID AND THE PHOENIX, I don't want to know about it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lycoris, 2006-08-10 09:11 pm UTC

[info]eli_eli_oh
2006-08-10 01:58 pm UTC (link)
I keep telling myself I shouldn't be amazed at this point, but I can't help it. I mean, why? This isn't even snappy dialogue or crazy-ass ideas. It's walking through doors, reading books, pale looking people. Shouldn't a writer be able to write this his or her own way, rather than rummaging through his or her (and mine, dammit) childhood?

(Reply to this)

Maybe my h/c vampire fic solved by deus ex machina wasn't so bad.
[info]phosfate
2006-08-10 02:44 pm UTC (link)
I've written some cringeworthy prose in my time, but at least it was mine.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Maybe my h/c vampire fic solved by deus ex machina wasn't so bad. - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 03:12 pm UTC
Re: Maybe my h/c vampire fic solved by deus ex machina wasn't so bad. - [info]narcissam, 2006-08-10 03:23 pm UTC
Re: Maybe my h/c vampire fic solved by deus ex machina wasn't so bad. - [info]phosfate, 2006-08-10 03:25 pm UTC
Re: Maybe my h/c vampire fic solved by deus ex machina wasn't so bad. - [info]white_serpent, 2006-08-10 03:25 pm UTC
Re: Maybe my h/c vampire fic solved by deus ex machina wasn't so bad. - [info]phosfate, 2006-08-10 03:27 pm UTC
Re: Maybe my h/c vampire fic solved by deus ex machina wasn't so bad. - [info]narcissam, 2006-08-10 03:36 pm UTC
Re: Maybe my h/c vampire fic solved by deus ex machina wasn't so bad. - [info]puipui, 2006-08-10 06:32 pm UTC

[info]the_wanlorn
2006-08-10 02:54 pm UTC (link)
What state of mind do you have to be in to think that it's okay to lift giant swathes of text like that? I can't even begin to imagine the thought process to get to that place.

And fandom does take care of its own. But only if its own is a BNF with many many many squealing fanpoodles.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-10 02:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_wanlorn, 2006-08-10 03:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-10 03:11 pm UTC

[info]bookbug87
2006-08-10 02:58 pm UTC (link)
Did Cassie/Heidi/Ebony/etc have some sort of running contest about who could work in the most passages from different random sources? Seriously, they all appear to be literate enough to write original stuff if they wanted to, and it seems like it would be *more* work to incorporate the copied text and it does nothing to improve the stories. What's the point?

(Reply to this)



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