Log In

Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Developer Area

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area



Pyrate Jenni ([info]pyratejenni) wrote in [info]bad_penny,
@ 2006-08-09 21:21:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Gobsmacked

Heidi's Homages or, "I Can't Believe It's Not Plagiarism!"



Welcome back, my friends
to the show that never ends.
We're so glad you could attend!
Come inside! Come inside!


-- Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Karn Evil 9 1st Impression Part 2


This is -- hopefully -- the last post on BNF plagiarists in the Harry Potter fandom. I make no promises of its ability to keep the reader fascinated: I'm not [info]charlottelennox and I don't have her skill. I can't promise any Funneh. I'm still rather gobsmacked about all this. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, nor do I play one on the internet TV, but I am a Pushy Bitch of the Midwest, and I 've got this bad habit of stating my opinions. Which I do, herein.

If hearing opinions that are not nicely worded offend you, turn back now.

Many hands helped pulled the evidence for this post together. Thank you, all.

Putting My Cards on the Table:

I don't like Heidi.

There's no deep-seated, personal reason for this. We've never interacted, in fandom or out, except for a few random, unpleasant exchanges on [info]fandom_wank and LiveJournal. Over the last four years, that's not enough to build up a deep-seated personal dislike, at least for me.

And those exchanges were unpleasant because they were about the reason why I don't like Heidi: her behavior.

I didn't like her playing on the attitude "fandom takes care of its own" when Cassie's laptop was stolen, and then "it was just among Cassie's friends" backpeddling that followed. I didn't like her "but I can't stop them!" attitude during Charitywank when her journal readers -- including msscribe -- went over to Christina's LJ and flamed her. I didn't like her put-upon "why do I have to do it?" whining when asked to take ten seconds and host a link to Christina's charity.

I didn't like her threatening people with libel whenever Cassie Claire was accused of plagiarism. I didn't like her Heidipatrol popping up whenever someone dared to say the Draco Trilogy or anything else Cassie wrote wasn't the best thing since JKR had an idea about a boy wizard.

I didn't like her calling [info]charlottelennox's posts on msscribe libelous and lies. I didn't like her lame excuses. I didn't like her sacrificing [info]ari_o to save her own skin.

"But, [info]pyratejenni," I can hear someone ask, "that's just her online behavior. Is that really enough to dislike someone?"

Of course it is, considering the only way we interact at all is online.

And I hear, "So why are you writing this? Why not someone impartial?"

At this point, I don't think I could find someone impartial to write this. I showed excerpts of it someone not even in HP fandom, and her response was frothing outrage. [info]white_serpent didn't want to. So I offered.

Besides, it's my community. Why shouldn't I write it?

"But why? This is so old!"

Because I think it helps explain why Heidi was vigilantly defending Cassie from the plagiarism accusations.

The Evidence

A Surfeit of Curses, Chapter 6
He perched in the window seat at the front of the Lemur, so far away from the bustle that it was not agreeable to be dragged back suddenly by a shout from Lucius as he entered the room. Never did Draco find anything so difficult as to keeping himself from losing his temper when he was suddenly disturbed while absorbed in a book. People who are fond of books know the feeling of irritation which sweeps over them at such a moment. "It makes me feel as if someone had hit me," he had said once. "And as if I want to hit back. I have to remember things quickly to keep from saying something ill-tempered." The temptation to be unreasonable and snappish is one not easy to manage, but around Lucius, it had to be done.

He returned to reality as quickly as he could, and took a few subtle yet deep breaths to calm himself down.


Frances Hodgson Burnett, A Little Princess, Chapter 6
Sara curled herself up in the window-seat, opened a book, and began to read.
...
She was so far away from the schoolroom that it was not agreeable to be dragged back suddenly by a howl from Lottie. Never did she find anything so difficult as to keep herself from losing her temper when she was suddenly disturbed while absorbed in a book. People who are fond of books know the feeling of irritation which sweeps over them at such a moment. The temptation to be unreasonable and snappish is one not easy to manage.

"It makes me feel as if someone had hit me," Sara had told Ermengarde once in confidence. "And as if I want to hit back. I have to remember things quickly to keep from saying something ill- tempered."

She had to remember things quickly when she laid her book on the window-seat and jumped down from her comfortable corner.



But wait! There's more!



A Surfeit of Curses,Chapter 9
"At school, Alexi had such a sharp, delicate face, and was so pale - the color of ivory. His eyes were too big for him, and he had a lot of hair which tumbled over his forehead and made his thin face seem smaller. He always looked as if he had been ill, and was prone to fits of crying, more as if he were tired and cross than in pain. When I saw him in the corridors, especially at night, he looked like a ghost, and like he had as much substance as a ghost as well. But afterwards, he looked and moved and spoke exactly like Lucius did - he would say things after Lucius, almost word for word the same. It was uncanny. He wasn't even a shadow of himself. He was a shadow of Lucius."</i>



Francis Hodgson Burnett,The Secret Garden Chapter 13:

The boy had a sharp, delicate face the color of ivory and he seemed to have eyes too big for it. He had also a lot of hair which tumbled over his forehead in heavy locks and made his thin face seem smaller. He looked like a boy who had been ill, but he was crying more as if he were tired and cross than as if he were in pain.

Mary stood near the door with her candle in her hand, holding her breath. Then she crept across the room, and, as she drew nearer, the light attracted the boy's attention and he turned his head on his pillow and stared at her, his gray eyes opening so wide that they seemed immense.

"Who are you?" he said at last in a half-frightened whisper. "Are you a ghost?"


And from another author:




A Surfeit of Curses,Chapter 3

March stood for a few minutes without switching on the lights, looking out at the broom traffic over the town. Then he went into the kitchen and Summoned a large glass of Ogden's Old Firewhisky. Monday's Daily Prophet was lying by the sink. He carried it back with him into the sitting room.

March had a routine for reading the paper. He stared at the back, which held the truth. If the
Cannons were said to have beaten the Falcons 140 - 60 at Quidditch, the chances were it was true: even the Party had yet to devise a means of rewriting sports results. The sports news was a different matter. Countdown to Hogsmeade Olympics - Australia May Compete for First Time in 28 Years - British Magic Still Leads World. Then the advertisements: Families Love Vacations In Stonehenge, Riviera of Magical Britain. Births, marriages and deaths...

An editorial on the student pro-Muggle demonstrations in Godric's Corner, where there was still a rebel enclave: Traitors Must Be Smashed By Force! The Prophet always took a firm line.

Obituary: some old
gent from the Ministry of Magic. "A lifetime's service to He Who Must Be Obeyed..."

Ministry news: Spring Thaw Brings Fresh Fighting on Siberian Front! British Troops Smash Ivan Terror Groups! In Normandy, five terrorist leaders had been executed for attempting to use a Portkey to bring a mudblood and her family to their hideout in the Pyrenees...


Robert Harris, Fatherland, page 39 and 40:


March stood for a few minutes without switching on the lights, looking down at the traffic
heading south to Wittenberg-Platz. Then he went into the kitchen and poured himself a large whisky. Monday's Berliner Tageblatt was lying by the sink. He carried it back with him into the sitting room.

March had a routine for reading the paper. He started at the back, which held the truth. If
Leipzig </b>was said to have beaten Cologne 4-0 at football, the chances were it was true: even the Party had yet to devise a means of rewriting the sports results. The sports news was a different matter. COUNTDOWN TO TOKYO OLYMPICS. U.S. MAY COMPETE FOR FIRST TIME IN 28 YEARS. GERMAN ATHLETES STILL LEAD WORLD. Then the advertisements: GERMAN FAMILIES! PLEASURE BECKONS IN GOTENLAND, RIVIERA OF THE REICH! French perfume, Italian silks, Scandinavian furs, Dutch cigars, Belgian coffee, Russian caviar, British televisions-- the cornucopia of Empire spilled across the pages. Births, marriages and deaths: TEBBE, Ernst and Ingrid; a son for the Fuhrer. WENZAL, Hans, aged 71; a true National Socialist, sadly missed.

...

Editorial on the student antiwar demonstrations in Heidelberg: TRAITORS MUST BE SMASHED BY FORCE! The Tageblatt always took a firm line.

Obituary: some old
Bonze from the Ministry of the Interior. "A lifetime's service to the Reich . . ."

Reich news: SPRING THAW BRINGS FRESH FIGHTING ON SIBERIAN FRONT! GERMAN TROOPS SMASH IVAN TERROR GROUPS! In Rovno, capital of the Reichskommissariat Ukraine, five terrorist leaders had been executed for organizing the massacre of a family of German settlers.


And poetry


A Surfeit of Curses, Chapter 4

"Somebody said, "Let's all hold hands,"
So Lee held hands with Jean.

And Jean also held Helen's hand

While she held hands with Dean.

Dean's other hand held Sharma Joy's

While she held hands with Lee.

So tell me just how did I wind up

Holdin' hands with me?"

Shel Silverstein,Hand Holding,Falling Up

Somebody said, "Lets all hold hands,"
So Lee held hands with Jean
And Jean also held Helen's hand
While she held hands with Dean.
Dean's other hand helped Sharma Joy's
While she held hands with Lee.
So tell me just how did I wind up
Holdin' hands with me?




When I saw all this, I was dumbfounded. Because, to answer [info]bnfshavemorefun's comment,these works aren't cited.

Oh, there's disclaimers, all right:

Chapter 3. Chapter 4. Chapter 6. Chapter 8. Chapter 9 .

(And other, more interesting disclaimers found on the HP_Paradise mailing list: Chapter 1. Concern. Titanic.)

And there's citations: Chapter 3. Chapter 4. Chapter 6. Chapter 8 Chapter 9. Chapter 9 citation, part 2

To further answer Aja's comment, now that I can without using all-caps and blistering the air blue, these are not citations.

I will repeat: These are not citations. These are not the citations I had to use in high school. These are not the citations friends of mine had to use in college. These are not the MLA-style citaions we used when I helped proofread a small-press magazine, Cup of Wonder. These disclaimers aren't worth the pressure it took to hit the keys.

This isn't a pastiche. This isn't a homage. It doesn't matter that Frances Hogson Burnett's works are out of copyright. Silverstein's hasn't expired, and neither has Harris'.

This is plagiarism.

And to my mind, that's why Heidi came down so hard on anyone who said the P-word about Cassie. Much like the banker who's really just borrowing the money, not embezzling, and the stock broker who's really just using a friendly tip, not insider trading at all, I think Heidi convinced herself she wasn't plagiarizing, really. All her friends were doing it, so it had to be okay. This is Standard Operating Procedure for fandom, too, right?

I've been in fandom since 1983, and theft -- lying -- of this kind has never been Standard Operating Procedure. Never.

And for all the lurkers and mice who want to blow this off with, "So what, Heidi doesn't have a book contract, it's just fandom!" --

Let me hear you say that the next time your work gets "homaged", sugar.

God, I wish I could drink. At this point, I need one.






Remember reading in [info]white_serpent's write-up, about how Heidi's friends were leaving FF.net, because they didn't want what happened to Cassie to happen to them?

One of them was AngieJ, aka Ebony:



Trouble in Paradise,Chapter 7

"Darling, your pregnancy is the least of your concerns right now," her father said quickly. Theodore Granger was a distinguished-looking man, with salt-and-pepper brown hair and a noble carriage. He always reminded me of Hermione, especially around the eyes. "Your priority is to land back on your feet soon as possible, isn’t it?"

She shook her head. "Dad, I can feel something isn’t right. You know I’m not keen on pretending things. Tell me, Ron, and tell me now. Did our baby make it?" The twins and Malinda were already gone. I closed the door, leaving the couple alone with Hermione’s parents. Hermione’s voice was already full of anguish, and we already knew the sad truth that she would soon find out.

The minute the door closed behind me, I heard a pitiful, heartbroken moan. It was Hermione... she’d just been told about her loss.


In all of recorded Weasley history, nothing like this had ever happened before. When a Weasley wife got pregnant, she always carried to term. Plain and simple. Even if the woman herself came from a family with a history of miscarriage, like Penelope’s, it didn’t seem to matter much. A case in point was when I’d developed a rather nasty blood infection while carrying Malinda... she was none the worse for the wear. Fred even told me that Arthur’s sister had fallen down two flights of stairs while five months pregnant. The woman broke both legs and a collarbone, but delivered a healthy baby boy four months later.

Needless to say, Hermione’s miscarriage came as a shock to all.

"Oh, the poor lamb--the poor lamb!" Molly was trying to stifle her sobs in the folds of Arthur’s robes. "I feel horrible for criticizing her... the poor, poor lamb! How can she bear it?"

Arthur put his arms around his wife and patted her head. "There, there, Molly. Hermione’s strong. She’ll make it through this. And so will Ron."



L.M. Montgomery,Anne's House of Dreams,Chapter 19, Dawn and Dusk

At first she was too weak and too happy to notice that Gilbert and the nurse looked grave and Marilla sorrowful. Then, as subtly, and coldly, and remorselessly as a sea-fog stealing landward, fear crept into her heart. Why was not Gilbert gladder? Why would he not talk about the baby? Why would they not let her have it with her after that first heavenly--happy hour? Was--was there anything wrong?

Gilbert," whispered Anne imploringly, "the baby--is all right--isn't she? Tell me--tell me."

Gilbert was a long while in turning round; then he bent over Anne and looked in her eyes. Marilla, listening fearfully outside the door, heard a pitiful, heartbroken moan, and fled to the kitchen where Susan was weeping.

"Oh, the poor lamb--the poor lamb! How can she bear it, Miss Cuthbert? I am afraid it will kill her.
She has been that built up and happy, longing for that baby, and planning for it. Cannot anything be done nohow, Miss Cuthbert?"

"I'm afraid not, Susan. Gilbert says there is no hope. He knew from the first the little thing couldn't live."



There's citations. Christ on a cracker, are there citations:
One ,two,three, four. I've seen album liner notes that didn't go on that long.

Oh, yeah -- and a disclaimer.

Again, not citations, boys and girls.

Wonder if the two-year-old beer in the fridge is still good ...




ETA: Corrected FHB's name, Robert Harris' name, removed Heidi's last name, did a touch-up on one of the sections refering to Aja. Thanks to [info]white_serpent and [info]kijikun for the heads-up on the authors!



Page 6 of 7
<<[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] >>

(Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 08:52 pm UTC (link)
SO.

Anyone got some good HP fandom recs? My personal favorite is Refraction by Metisket (http://www.fictionalley.org/authors/metisket/refraction.html).

(This isn't to downplay the plagarism, which is horrible, but I don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said.)

Except--does the line "You're the savior of the wizarding world. Let someone else be its bloody conscience" ring a bell with anyone else?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2006-08-10 11:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 12:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2006-08-11 12:07 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 12:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2006-08-11 12:50 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2006-08-11 01:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mnemosyne, 2006-08-11 07:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2006-08-11 12:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladylauren, 2006-08-11 10:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-08-11 11:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladylauren, 2006-08-11 11:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-08-11 11:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladylauren, 2006-08-11 11:52 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 03:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]themadscientist, 2006-08-12 12:30 pm UTC

[info]narcissam
2006-08-10 08:54 pm UTC (link)
Ebony comments:

"For instance, I know that I did not plagiarize, and that I cited everything that I used always in my fan stories... but I don't react to bad_penny or fandom_wank anymore, so I won't be going to defend myself."

So how did the Montgomery end up in there with no citation then? *is curious*

It continues with a lot of stuff about thwarting the devil in the guise of Journalfen. No, seriously.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 08:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-10 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 09:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-10 09:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 09:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bastet, 2006-08-10 10:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-10 11:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 12:06 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 03:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alexielnet, 2006-08-11 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]go_shirly, 2006-08-10 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-10 10:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-11 02:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]breecita, 2006-08-11 04:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-11 05:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdaisy, 2006-08-10 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-10 10:58 pm UTC
Now with article - [info]camilla, 2006-08-11 04:38 am UTC
Re: Now with article - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-11 04:41 am UTC
Re: Now with article - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-11 02:41 pm UTC
Re: Now with article - [info]camilla, 2006-08-11 02:43 pm UTC
Re: Now with article - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-11 02:53 pm UTC
Re: Now with article - [info]fuzzytowers, 2006-08-16 06:47 pm UTC
Re: Now with article - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-17 12:11 am UTC
Re: Now with article - [info]fuzzytowers, 2006-08-17 10:26 pm UTC
Re: Now with article - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-19 09:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mister_terrific, 2006-08-11 04:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-11 06:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]renata_hpjc, 2006-08-11 06:39 pm UTC
Heee! - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 06:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-11 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mister_terrific, 2006-08-11 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-11 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2006-08-11 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]princessdot, 2006-08-11 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]milaya, 2006-08-11 10:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crevette, 2006-08-12 02:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]komorebi, 2006-08-12 07:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-08-10 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-08-10 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-11 02:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2006-08-11 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-08-10 09:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdaisy, 2006-08-10 10:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 01:20 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 03:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]karet, 2006-08-11 04:34 am UTC

[info]nyoda
2006-08-10 09:04 pm UTC (link)
I just found another bit of plagiarism.

From A Surfeit of Curses, Chapter 3

"You surely are a truly gifted kid,
But you're only good as
The last great thing you did,
And where've you been since then?
Did the schedule get you down?"

You must know me, Father it's your son
And I know that you are proud of everything I've done
But it's the wonders I perform,
Pulling rabbits out of hats
When sometimes I'd prefer
Simply to wear them

If it's uphill all the way you should be used to it and say
My back is broad enough sir to take the strain and it's

Hello mother, it's your son and aren't you proud, of all I've done
But it's "stay right there son, baby do"

While I'm just itchin' for something new
So watch me hawkeye

Understand the force of will, the sleight of hand
Movin' the river, bucket by spoon,

and do you think that they'll like me when they learn what I do?


And here are Prefab Sprout's song lyrics Moving the River:

You surely are a truly gifted kid
But you're only good as
The last great thing you did
And where've you been since then
Did the schedule get you down

I hear you've got a new girlfriend
How's the wife taking it ?

If it's uphill all the way you should be used to it by now

You must know me, Father it's your son
And I know that you are proud of everything I've done
But it's the wonders I perform,
Pulling rabbits out of hats
When sometimes I'd prefer
Simply to wear them

If it's uphill all the way you should be used to it and say
My back is broad enough sir to take the strain and it's

Hello mother, it's your son and aren't you proud, of all I've done

But I'm turkey hungry, I'm chicken free, and I can't breakdance on your knee
But it's "stay right there son, baby do";, while I is itchin' for something new
So watch me hawkeye and understand the force of will, the sleight of hand

Movin' the river, I'm turkey hungry, I'm chicken free and I can't breakdance on your knee
Movin' the river, bucket by spoon, and do you think that they'll like me when they learn what I o [sic]

Movin' the river, money for jam, and it takes such an effort to stay where I am...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nyoda, 2006-08-10 09:08 pm UTC
Bad Timing
(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 09:06 pm UTC (link)
This all makes for fascinating reading, and I certainly added my two cents in a couple of places, but I still wish this had come up at a different time. A time when Heidi is able to defend, apologize, or make some sort of answer to these accusations. As it is I can't shake the feeling that I kicked someone when she was down, and in light of the accusations and evidence I really hate that I am the one feeling guilty.
-TGMarita

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Bad Timing - [info]emiweebee, 2006-08-10 09:32 pm UTC
Re: Bad Timing - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-08-10 10:08 pm UTC
Re: Bad Timing - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 03:22 am UTC
Re: Bad Timing - [info]carlanime, 2006-08-10 10:59 pm UTC
Re: Bad Timing - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 11:01 pm UTC
Re: Bad Timing - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 02:13 am UTC

[info]themadscientist
2006-08-10 09:40 pm UTC (link)
...okay, confession time.

I steal ideas. I do. If I'm reading a WIP fic that is nevereverever going to be finished, I like to write my own take/ending on said fic because it interests me and I don't like it when any type of writing is at a reaally good point and... just stops.

But guess what? I don't post it anywhere. I never show it to anyone else, and I would never say the idea/fic was mine. Ever.

And if I ever even considered posting these things up on the Internet, I hope somebody catches me and flames me to a nice, fried crisp.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rhiannonmr, 2006-08-11 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]themadscientist, 2006-08-11 09:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pariforma, 2006-08-11 01:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]themadscientist, 2006-08-11 09:35 pm UTC

[info]britikitty
2006-08-10 09:44 pm UTC (link)
I don't like Heidi either. I actually didn't know who the hell she was until the Ms Scribe report went live, and felt nothing much about her at all until I got to the section about Charitywank. And then to read on about Heidi's bullying and ridiculous lawsuit threats just made it clear that she was not the kind of lady I'd ever like to encounter.

As I read this report, all I could think was "what a goddamn hypocrite", and yet I fail to be surprised.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-10 10:50 pm UTC (link)
Stupd journalfen - making me post anonymously. Why does it say "Livejournal user"? anyway - I'm "erastes" on LJ - previously "underlucius"

I haven't commented before, because basically everything I have to say has been said, but I just wanted to thank you for this. I wish - oh I wish, we could get a petition together and present it to FA, Heidi's firm, Cassie's publisher - whoever and register our disgust at this theft. I've mailed FA personally and asked (politely) what, if anything, they are planning to do about it. Nothing, I suppose, but I have to ask.

As one of your commenters said, this is particularly vile because it raises the profile of fanfic in a bad way, and everything that people like me and many many others who have attempted to raise the bar, to raise the quality, to prove to people that fanfic can be creative and an art form - is destroyed. All anyone will remember is that "Oh yeah - HP Fandom, that's the place where everyone steals works from other people"

Also, more and more writers are likely to want "no fanfic" and here we go again with the Cease and Desist orders. I personally would die and go to heaven if someone made fanfic of my novels, but if I found huge chunks stolen and used in Potter fic (especially crappy Potter fic) I'd have my lawyer in the starting gate before they could blink.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-10 11:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 06:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-08-11 11:54 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gun, 2006-08-11 03:35 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 06:09 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 09:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2006-08-11 11:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-11 03:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zaliesiren, 2006-08-11 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhiannonmr, 2006-08-11 06:11 am UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 12:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mooncalf, 2006-08-11 12:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-08-11 06:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mnemosyne, 2006-08-11 07:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bobomagicksock, 2006-08-11 10:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kenboy, 2006-08-11 01:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smit, 2006-08-11 05:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crevette, 2006-08-11 05:31 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 12:48 am UTC (link)
I should start saying I am not a member of Harry Potter fandom. I've seen the movies and have too much to read for work and university without picking up fiction to be honest.

I did want to address some points I've seen in comments that defend both Cassie and Heidi. It's fanfic, not academics, but if I as a university student plagiarized fanfic and someone reported to any of the universities I have been associated with I could face charges under student integrity policies. I know this because I used to serve on such a committee.

No, it's not a paper and though I have a couple MLA books I'd certainly be willing to send to them, citation in fan fic isn't hard. But more importantly... when I was taught to write I was taught that lifting entire passages without indicating that they werne't my words was plagiarism even if I did list the source. A lot of college students come into Freshmen year thinking that as long as they mention they used a source somewhere they've covered their ass against a plagiarism charge. They havne't. As far as I'm concerned this is the closest parallel I can think of to the "inspired by" copout.

However, I've been involved in four or five different fandoms over the last twenty years and all this teaches me, following the MsScribe posts, and the Cassie stuff, and now this, is that I am so glad this is not my fandom. I'd be embarrassed if it was, and even without it being a fandom I'm involved in it's one I'm embarrassed for.

My impression of Harry Potter fandom is pretty horrible, and started off on a bad foot. My first experiance was having to call a sex crimes detective about a sexual predator trolling a Harry Potter section of a site I modded. My general impression is that while there are normal good people in Potter fandom, they are silenced by a loud minority of crazies who harbor plagiarism and that it is a fandom where predators troll for those least able to protect themselves.

freifraufischer @ lj.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]so_long42, 2006-08-11 01:40 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 02:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]so_long42, 2006-08-11 01:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 05:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 06:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-11 05:42 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 08:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-11 09:02 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 02:34 am UTC (link)
Thank you for bringing this to light. I saw several people in comments wondering why this matters. Among other reasons, it matters because it casts all fanficcers in a bad light. Pro authors are starting to talk about this now - I've seen it in 3 different blogs tonight. I'm glad in that I hope all this publicity discourages future plagiarism, but it worries me that more authors may do an Anne Rice and forbid ficcing of their work.

This kind of plagiarism (and by a journalist and a lawyer!) denigrates all of us who work hard to craft our OWN words for our fics. I've always been proud to say that fandom and fanfiction was instrumental in helping me on the road to my writing career. Now I feel tainted by association, like I'm coated in second-hand slime.

I've also seen people in various places say how it's really complimentary that CC (and Heidi too, I'm sure) lifted text from Pamela Dean or Buffy episodes, etc., as it shows appreciation for the work. That's bullshit. If you want to appreciate someone's work, you write them a letter, or leave a positive Amazon review or encourage your friends to buy the author's work.

I have a novel releasing in October. If someone copied paragraphs from my work, changed the characters' names to Harry and Draco, and posted it online, I wouldn't be flattered. I'd be pissed off, even if it is 'just' fanfiction and they're not profiting from it. Actually, they are profiting. They profit by getting praise and attention based on talent and effort that is not their own.

Finally, in my day job, I do research and reference work in a law library, and there is NO WAY I will ever believe that Heidi didn't know what she was doing is wrong. Legal professionals know damn well that they're supposed to cite direct quotes, indirect quotes, paraphrases, etc. I don't expect Blue Book or MLA citation in a fic, but I do expect that when I sit down to read a story by Heidi or Cassie Claire or anyone else that I'm reading THEIR WORK. Not Pamela Dean or Frances Hodgson Burnett.

rwday on LJ

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 03:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seraphtrevs, 2006-08-11 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 09:35 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 09:32 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 02:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tunxeh, 2006-08-11 04:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2006-08-11 05:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rashaka, 2006-08-11 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 09:33 am UTC
Try Removing your fic and see what happens
(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 02:55 am UTC (link)
Ok, for any number of reasons I just tried removing my fics from FA. and this

http://pelirroja-ljc.livejournal.com/159526.html

is what happens.

Wonder if the same will happen to CC, Heidi, or anyone else if they try to take theirs down. As of now I'm up to about 200 emails.


Pelirroja_ljc on LJ

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Try Removing your fic and see what happens - [info]camilla, 2006-08-11 03:18 am UTC
Re: Try Removing your fic and see what happens - [info]missdaisy, 2006-08-11 03:28 am UTC
Re: Try Removing your fic and see what happens - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 04:41 am UTC
Re: Try Removing your fic and see what happens - (Anonymous), 2006-08-12 04:43 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 04:02 am UTC (link)
If all this ends up having a negative impact on the ability to create fan fiction in the future because we're slapped with cease and desist orders, I will be one pissed off ex-reader!

Damn the lice that mess it up for every one else.

(Reply to this)

Can't make an account :\
(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 05:01 am UTC (link)
I was linked her from a friend and I have to say here what I said to her.

I had no idea. Really, I've never read any of the things that were plagerized. I read Draco Trilogy a long time ago (since it's one of those things that's thrown in your face at every turn) and I honestly can't remember what it's about except for that it had Draco/Hermione which I despise. I also had o idea who Heidi was until I read some comment and found out she's the director of FA...WTF? That makes me lose so much respect for FA. I don't run across a lot of crap in the HP fandom plagerism wise except for the people who write word for word JKR's stuff as an entire chapter and never tell you they didn't write it unless you can get it out of "omg lyke, I dun own harry, or id totally do him." Draco Trilogy was written a long freaking time ago, so it's not even "is this what fandom is coming to?" so much as "is this what fandom was founded on?!?" Unbelievable.

This is also not to mention the amount of authors I run across who use quotes from Buffy and have nearly a page of citations at the end of each chapter: "line" Taken from [show] aired [date] by [writer]. I run across some published authors who consider the whole of fanfiction to be plagerism, due to the use of another author's creation. I don't go that far, I think it's fair to use a character, a world even, and expand on it. Fic authors don't claim it to be their own, only the words they use. Cassandra Claire can't claim that.

I don't know what half of the things you guys talk about mean. I was on ff.net since the dawn of time, but in a different fandom. Harry Potter has been my thing for two, maybe three years. The communities and people you name mean nothing to me. Perhaps that does make me slightly more objective. The evidence needs to speak for itself, which is has time and again when she's gotten blacklisted.

-iichristinll/Chaney

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Can't make an account :\ - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 05:21 am UTC
Re: Can't make an account :\ - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-08-11 06:05 am UTC
Re: Can't make an account :\ - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 04:33 pm UTC

[info]rashaka
2006-08-11 05:05 am UTC (link)
::whistles:: Wowsers. It's not standard operating procedure in my idea of fandom, either.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 06:29 am UTC (link)
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/004392.html

Here's one author that weighs in on the whole thing. Lots of comments to his post.

Yup. That's all I got.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ishie, 2006-08-11 11:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2006-08-11 12:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slackerbitch, 2006-08-14 09:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smit, 2006-08-11 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - soula, 2006-08-11 09:07 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 06:49 am UTC (link)
http://leegoldberg.typepad.com/a_writers_life/2006/08/fanfic_hypocris_1.html

Heck, even Lee Goldberg had the opportunity to weigh in on it, just so he could prove fanfic writers are Teh Debils, and doesn't even bother to do any research. Tsk.

http://deannahoak.com/?p=268

Vague reference only...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 11:34 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 12:31 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 06:50 am UTC (link)
I can't believe someone has so weak a mind they have to copy a sentence like, "Monday's newspaper was lying by the sink."

And if copying something like that was meant as homage... Well, if I were the homaged writer I would be offended. Surely I had written something more witty than that?!

2004

(Reply to this)


[info]mnemosyne
2006-08-11 07:31 am UTC (link)
WHAT

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 07:45 am UTC (link)
I'm a 'late' HP fangirl so I had never heard of all these people before nor had I read their fics (still haven't and very probably never will ;-)). Sad situation for those who did but I can only be glad that I still have quite a positive image of the fandom. But, then, I never read fics at FA. :P And I watch stop_plagiarism from time to time.

Thanks for the post. I think these things needed to be said.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 09:21 am UTC (link)
Re: the Scalzi and Goldberg comments, apparently somebodies have been emailing pro writers in the blogosphere about CC and asking for their comment.

Given the risk of a backlash against ALL fanfic, is this really a bright idea?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-08-11 02:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 02:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2006-08-11 05:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 05:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]southbitch, 2006-08-12 03:50 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 09:39 am UTC (link)
This is insane.

I've never really had an opinion of Heidi. I didn't know her, never read her journal or any of her fanfic. The only thing I knew about her was that she was in the "Inner Circle", that she was a lawyer, and that she never wastes an oppertunity to defend Cassie.

Yet I'm still disgusted by her actions. And Frances Hodgson Burnett is one of my favourite authors. *fumes*

I feel bad for JK Rowling. Her most prolific online fans are theives, liars, and asshole's. That'll give her books a real good name. :(


(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 09:54 am UTC (link)
I always thought the HP fandom was batshit insane and have always stayed away from it for that reason. But these posts, first about Cassandra Claire and now about Heidi, are showing me that it's even more of a mad house than I'd thought.

I've never really had much of an opinion of Heidi. I don't know her. I've never read her fic or her journal. All I know about Heidi is that she's in the "Inner Circle", is an attorney and never turns down a chance to defend CC.

I guess Heidi and CC are two of a kind. It really angers me to see someone ripping off Francis Hodgson Burnett. She's one of my favourite authors. Obviously, it's bad for anyone to steal from ANY author, but when it's one of your favourites it feels even worse.

I hope Heidi and CC get their just desserts one day. They really don't deserve the adoration and fame they've got. If these posts here make even one of their fans change their mind about thinking either girl has talent, a tiny bit of justice has been served.

I feel bad for JK Rowling. Her most prolific online fans are thieves, lairs, manipulators and asshole's. That'll make her supporters look good. :(

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 09:55 am UTC (link)
I always thought the HP fandom was batshit insane and have always stayed away from it for that reason. But these posts, first about Cassandra Claire and now about Heidi, are showing me that it's even more of a mad house than I'd thought.

I've never really had much of an opinion of Heidi. I don't know her. I've never read her fic or her journal. All I know about Heidi is that she's in the "Inner Circle", is an attorney and never turns down a chance to defend CC.

I guess Heidi and CC are two of a kind. It really angers me to see someone ripping off Francis Hodgson Burnett. She's one of my favourite authors. Obviously, it's bad for anyone to steal from ANY author, but when it's one of your favourites it feels even worse.

I hope Heidi and CC get their just desserts one day. They really don't deserve the adoration and fame they've got. If these posts here make even one of their fans change their mind about thinking either girl has talent, a tiny bit of justice has been served.

I feel bad for JK Rowling. Her most prolific online fans are thieves, lairs, manipulators and asshole's. That'll make her supporters look good. :(

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 09:56 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 12:21 pm UTC

[info]napalmnacey
2006-08-11 10:07 am UTC (link)
RAAH! Nobody rips off Francis Hodgson Burnett! Even if her copyright is expired! *angry angry grumbles*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2006-08-11 02:48 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-08-11 11:07 am UTC (link)
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/004392.html

Dear damn near every post on that link above, and especially this line:
This seems to me to get to the core of the argument. The argument is that this writer is Not A Very Nice Person.

Nope. The core is as follows:

This writer is a known and exposed plagiarist.

The fact that she has infuriated a lot of people by refusing point blank to acknowledge this is not the issue. The fact that she allowed her friend to beat with false law anyone who dared to speak up is secondary. The claim that she may or may not be a Not Very Nice Person is utterly unimportant. All these things serve merely to fuel the anger already existent through the recognition of the plagiarism.

She is a plagiarist. It’s been proven. No amount of squirming and attempting to fudge the issue by her defenders is going to make any difference.

I shall now be pedantic and repetitious.

Alleged death threats from nut-jobs do not mean that she is suddenly not a plagiarist.

People possibly being jealous of her do not mean that she is suddenly not a plagiarist.

The fact that she has a book being legitimately published does not mean that some of her previous works were not full of other authors’ unaccredited words and therefore classed as blatant plagiarism.

The fact that she has happily and unashamedly garnered herself a large fanbase largely (apparently) BECAUSE of those other authors’ words is merely a secondary irritation.

The fact that plagiarism may/may not be illegal does not mean that what she did was not plagiarism.

The fact that her previous works were mere fan-fiction and therefore of no account whatsoever in the big bad publishing world does not mean that the plagiarism in those works does not exist.

The fact that fanfiction is a hotly contested grey/black&white/omgdisgusting! area doesn't mean that what she did was not plagiarism.

The fact that this report has been posted NOW and not, say, five months ago or a year in the future does not mean that she suddenly is not a plagiarist.

/pedantic

Yours Sincerely

Me.


I have the urge now to finish this off like this:

>>> **((JESUS CHRIST ALMIGHTY WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?!!!))**<<<

But I won’t.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-08-11 11:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ishie, 2006-08-11 11:59 am UTC



Page 6 of 7
<<[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] >>

 
   
Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map