Sacrifice wank: the Jedi Council forums
Congratulations, it's a boy! And another boy. The baby wank at TFN has been born.

The thread, containing spoilers for Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice, is 108 pages and counting, and that's on logged-in page views (not logged in is higher) so here are some highlights from just the last 6 pages. The whole thread is very TL;DR and I've only read about half of it; much of the discussion is on various other plot points through the story, including one or more deaths and the psychological state of one of the characters.

I'm in the thread a little bit in some of the way-back pages but haven't made any comments in the recent discussion; my last comment was 3 days ago asking a question about Hapan succession laws.


On a dark and stormy night, Karen Traviss wrote about two minor characters who were Mandalorians and were also a gay couple. The fans give mixed reactions:

Stackpole_The_Hobbit: And we have our first canon same sex couple! *throws a parade, because that's what you do for that* [emoticon with a tongue sticking out goes here]

Twin_Suns_One: Just what we needed: social activism in a Star Wars novel.

TwiLekJedi: ...I guess it's good to have canonical evidence that there are cultures where same-sex households are no big deal, but on Mandalore it's not much of a statement. Inserting "Lesbians" onto female-controlled Dathomir is probably just as difficult.

Kidan: Really? Why is it good? I guess I just don't see the reason why we need to push today's socio-political leanings onto what had been up until now rather family-oriented fare.

I'm not really sure what purpose it served in the storyline to have homosexuality as a plot-point, and frankly, I don't feel an overwhelming need to read about same-sex couples. Likewise, I now have to keep DR-era EU Literature away from my sons for a few extra years.

Now, I'm just waiting for the storyline where the big-bad empire is stopping the homosexuals from getting married, and we have to have Luke give a heart-wrenching speech about how we should all just get along...

TwiLekJedi: "plot-point"? [laughing emoticon/smiley]

you wouldn't read about same-sex couples. if you don't pay extra-careful attention, you'll read right over it
I knew of it beforehand (just not who exactly) and still missed it.

and it's entirely possible to ignore it and pretend they just have some sort of arrangement. That's kinda what I do because I think Traviss tried and failed. I would read an entire love-novel about two guys, but in my personal canon those two Mandalorians are the straightest guys in the whole sector.

TheRedBlade: Kidan, Twin_Suns: Theoretically, isn't not including same sex couples into the EU also pushing a socio-political agenda? It's just pushing it from the other end. There have always been gay people, and societies have dealt with it in different ways. It would be odd for a place as diverse as the GFFA to have a monolithic opposition to homosexuality. As for the series being "family friendly," I find it somewhat hypocritical that you make no mention of the violence in the book (a very brutal knife fight that ends in murder, cold blooded assasination, wearing other sentient beings as clothing), but balk at a throw-away line that shows to people to be living happily together and raising a family.

Twin_Suns_One: For crying out loud, this is Star Wars. The GFFA shouldn't have to be a mirror for everything in our addled society. What's next? Abortion? Stem cell research? Global warming?

younghansolo: I dont have a proble with gay couples in life or literature, but it just seems so completely unnecersary to add a gay couple to star wars. I can only assume its some form of marketing or pandering but as i say i dont really have a problem with it i do however have a problem with writers adding concepts or characters for the wrong reasons. If something is added for the benefit of the story then fine, but otherwise leave it out its not necersary. I'm not saying that is what happened here, but i would like to know the actual reason for it.

JediQueenMara: i guess some here are wondering why is this mentioned NOW on the 30th anniv and not in 1977?

well.. think on this.. the empire military was pretty anti-female right? you didn't see any women on the death star or empire battleships. these soldiers were presumably away from women for weeks/months at a time. if you think that the crew wasn't getting just a little kinky with each other after indulging in a few smuggled pints of ale and packs of death sticks then you really don't know too much about human nature happy hate to break it to ya!

jedimaster203: Hey! Being in the military does not make you gay!
I don't have a problem with gay people, but generalizing like that is dangerous. It is like saying "All pirates were gay!", when everybody knows that they have a lass in every port!

Anyways, I'm all about gays in the military. I want the guy keeping my butt safe to think its actually worth it, ya know.

Methodical: You know, I've read this book twice now, and I still can't find anything about a gay couple.

I read some stuff about two guys that live in a compound together, one is a blackmsith/farmer, one is a soldier, which, to me, seems to be merely a complimentary relationship, but not gay. One guy holds down the fort and watches the adopted kids, while the other goes out and scalps Vong.

So, I'm looking on the Wookie and I see it says that these two are married, and have been married for 15 years.

Where was this written? Did I miss something in this book? I want someone to point out the specific passage that says Goran and Medrit got married 15 years ago.

If no one else can point that out, then I suggest that people are making up stuff that just isn't real. Personally, I don't think there is anything about two old soldiers living together that makes them gay. It's fine if they are, if somewhere it's written out that they are married.

younghansolo (to an earlier quote): It wasnt an accusation, it was a question, like i said several times i have no problem with same sex partnerships in a literary sense or a real world sense. I just wanted to ascertain if their sexuality was part of the story (having not read the book i have no idea) or if it was just placed there for no real reason. Your tone suggests that i am homophobic in a sense and i dont appreciate that because i am most certainly not. I just wanted to understand why the concept was there. If its simply because it happens then fine i dont have a problem with it i just wantedto know!

Darth_Sprocket: One must be careful to genralize based on your life experiences----but we all do it anyway. I was in the U.S. miltary (AF) and I can tell you that homosexuality was discouraged---strongly. IMHO, the miltary is the last bastion of conservative, "defending mom & pop" -- "willing to sacrifice yourself" values, and some lifestyles don't fit in the U.S. miltary ethos. I'm conservative, myself, so I felt right at home there. Oh, of course, you can find liberals---and yes, homosexauls----in the armed ranks, but they have no real influence.

Actually, I've found that most of my fellow heterosexuals that I've known throughout my life would find it disgusting (I would) to "experiment" that way----but, once again, that's just what I've experienced & been told.

I will agree with you that human beings are capable of just about anything---having sex with any gender, in multiple combinations---with all ages---with animals, inaminate objects, etc...etc.

As one philosoher has said, "the human race is the glory and the trash of the Universe."

Darth-Ghost: About the gay Mandos, WHAT is the deal? People say anywhere between 2% and 10% of humans on Earth are homosexual. And people are worried about ONE couple being hinted to as gay in a galaxy of QUADRILLIONS?! It's a fact of life, whether you agree with it morally or not. It's not even that open or in-your-face at all, I wouldn't have known if I didn't look here. Luke Skywalker isn't giving a speech at a gay pride parade, it's not even mentioned, no character saying their views on if they're for or against it, so it can't be a commentary that people are making it out to be. Two very MINOR characters happen to be gay, so what if they're Mandalorians; and that your STEREOTPYE of gay people doesn't fit in with your STEREOTYPE of the fictional Mandalorians. Who cares so much about a little, insignificant, DETAIL that doesn't impact the story in any way?

Chapter 2 of this charming tale of wanking forum-goers is coming in the next issue, titled "What Happens When the Site Decides What to Do About Slash in the Fanfic Forums." The boards do not allow slash, except when ambiguous and restricted to unrelated original characters, but until now there hasn't been an unambiguously gay couple in the canon, either. The discussion is underway, and when Sacrifice is out of the spoiler window, allowing spoilers in other threads, all hell may break loose.


And yes, that IS the Cliff's Notes version. It's TFN.