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He farts rainbows and is ded from snake. - Harry/Jocasta OTP
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![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif) sarahfrost | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 04:31 am (UTC) |
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| Yes, Terri-testing, your crappy fanfic is an extension to Rowling canon and must be cited in every argument.
[I]nvaders rape women to express their domination over, and contempt for, their enemy's ethnic/religious group (or even to make that group reject the "dishonored" women and diminish the next generation). It's been rather a fanfic assumption that the DE's might use rape that way, as an expression of contempt.
Death Eaters think Muggles and halfbloods are dirty and untouchable. Fenrir Greyback is the only Death Eater implied to use rape in the books. I'm pretty sure that the Death Eater rape orgies in fanfiction are mostly about authors' personal fetishes.
I find this comment weirder:
Lily's [hair] was more auburn (Like Dumbledore. Eww. Thank god, Albus was gay, old and celibate. Lily was enough of a Mary Sue as it was.).
Because five seconds of page time and giving your life for your child and having red hair is totally enough for a Mary-Sue.
And calling your children after a bunch of dead people, as if they are some sort of a do-over is bad enough, but brother James and sister Lily is just icky. Yuck!
Newsflash: using any name of someone of an older generation will involve naming your children after people who will die. Maybe Harry and Ginny should have used original names instead of just naming after dead people. Hanny Weater Potter, Girry Pottley Potter, and Jamolly Renesmee Potter? | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
ekaterinv | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 05:38 am (UTC) |
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| Death Eaters think Muggles and halfbloods are dirty and untouchable.
That makes Death Eaters more likely to rape Muggles and halfbloods. Southern slaveholders claimed to think black women were dirty and untouchable. Nazis claimed to think Jewish women were dirty and untouchable. The KKK claimed black women were dirty and untouchable. Powerful monks and priests in the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages claimed that women were "dirty and untouchable". Whenever group A, in power over group B, claims that group B is "dirty and untouchable", you can be quite sure that men in group A are raping women and girls in group B on a very regular basis.
Realistically, the Death Eaters absolutely would have raped Muggleborns and "half-bloods". JKR didn't go there because she was writing children's books. If people want to inject a little more realism in fanfic written for adults, NOT having Death Eaters commit rape, and lots of it, would be unbelievable, sorry to say.
Rape is about power. That is all it is about. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
quantumreality | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 05:49 am (UTC) |
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| I wonder if this is why the JKR haters and delusional Snapefen have seized on terri_testing's and Arsinoe de Blassenville's fics to such an extent that the fics are treated as canon.
After all, if they have to be apologists for Death-Eaterism, they also need to basically morally invert the Potterverse, by placing responsibility for rapes of women not on Death Eaters (the unfortunately logical place to start looking for perpetrators) but on their opponents - people like Arthur Weasley and Bartemius Crouch Sr.
Barty Senior may have been an asshat, but that's a far cry from having him take advantage of dubious consent (IIRC in-fic he claims her mother had an affair with him and he wiped her memory of it) and calling it in-character for Barty. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
ekaterinv | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 06:26 am (UTC) |
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| Yeah, I can't see Barty Crouch Sr. committing rape or -- whatever that is. I can see him having affairs and covering them up, but that's very different. As for Arthur Weasley, no way would he ever consider doing anything remotely like rape.
I don't think Snape would have committed rape while he was in the Death Eaters, but I do think he would have looked the other way. He's incredibly good at cognitive dissonance. But the rest of the Death Eaters? Yeah, they would have. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| sarahfrost | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 07:24 am (UTC) |
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| I think I misspoke. Of the canon characters, I don't think Snape and Lucius are rapists, or Voldemort himself, partly because of his physical changes. Bellatrix and Fenrir are obviously psychopaths who aren't concerned about torture, so I think rape would be in character for they and their close associates. Rape is about power. Being wizards, the Death Eaters would have access to many spells as alternative ways to display that power by torturing Muggles and Muggleborn.
In fanon, I've never read a Death Eater rape fic that wasn't typed one-handed, although they probably do exist. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
ekaterinv | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 07:41 am (UTC) |
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| Lucius strikes me very much as a rapist. An aristocrat who thinks he's entitled to whatever he pleases, and anyone who opposes him needs to get out of the way.
There are lots of alternative ways that human beings can torture and hurt each other besides rape. But rape is the most prevalent of these ways that they actually use by quite a large margin. I don't think wizards would be any more or less likely to rape anyone than normal people are. Well, maybe a bit less, because witches and wizards seem to be a bit more equal than women and men irl. (They still have plenty of the same issues re: misogyny that we do, though.) Though witches probably would be more likely to commit rape than women are irl, because witches have all that magical power. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| sarahfrost | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 08:11 am (UTC) |
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| | I would have agreed with you about Lucius up to Book Seven, but in that book he shows that like his son Draco he's fairly weak and squeamish. (Which is better than being a complete sociopath like Bella.) He also seems to be in a loving relationship with his wife, and I don't think Narcissa would approve of rape. Most of the things he does in the books are at a distance, like giving an eleven-year-old girl a dark object that nearly killed her. He could have turned out to be more evil than he did, but in retrospect a lot of the things Lucius Malfoy does as a Death Eater are not very effective or hands-on. He voluntarily joined a group of bigoted terrorists and is an ethically reprehensible character for all sorts of reasons, not least torture of Muggles. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
ekaterinv | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 08:59 am (UTC) |
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| Being weak and loving your wife are entirely compatible with being a rapist. Rapists are not strong people (if they were, they wouldn't commit rape), and the vast majority of rapists aren't sociopaths. Lots of Southern slaveholders loved their wives, but committed rape and other sexual abuses on a scale that -- I won't get into too much. It's incredibly horrifying.
Lucius strikes me as more of a rapist-type than anyone else in books except for Greyback and, possibly, Bellatrix. (Not to excuse Bellatrix of anything, but her "specialty" was Crucio, and she always seemed to go right for that and nothing else.) It's his aristocratic entitlement, his dismissal of everyone's feelings but his own, and his gleeful enjoyment of hurting people weaker than him. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
adverb | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 10:27 am (UTC) |
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| | I always thought that the bit in Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality where Draco talks so casually about rape was disturbingly possible. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| sarahfrost | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 11:02 pm (UTC) |
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| RL rapists have many psychological profiles, yes. I wouldn't play amateur psychologist to dismiss rape charges made against a real person, but unlike real people the whole of a fictional character's self is contained within the limits of the text. Lucius' hands-off approach, personal weakness, and Narcissa's likely disapproval are the factors that sway my interpretation whether he'd physically force himself on a Muggle or Muggleborn; but as you say he is aristocratically entitled and has tortured Muggles using magic. Thanks for the discussion about his character!
On a Doylist level, I don't think Rowling would have let Lucius get out of Azkaban at the end of the books if she'd intended to write him as a rapist. But that approach involves making assumptions about the author. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
ekaterinv | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 11:20 pm (UTC) |
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| I think Rowling didn't actually write Lucius Malfoy as a rapist. But if someone wants to write adult fanfic based on the HP books, and wants to bring realism into it, Lucius being a rapist would make perfect sense. I wouldn't want to grapple with that stuff through Harry Potter fanfic, personally; I don't think it can really be done well, because the canon is written for children.
JKR did grapple with the issue with Merope, though. I think she did a good job there, showing that a terrible person -- Tom Riddle -- can still be a victim of a horrible crime. Oh, and there was the guy who tried to force a kiss on Hermione, and Harry victim-blamed her for it. Not really Rowling's shining moment, imo. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
pantyless_angel | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 05:06 pm (UTC) |
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| This definitely, to quote Terri_testing herself:
150 years ago, slaveowners' refusal to admit the humanity of their slaves did not, alas, translate into thinking that raping them was a form of bestiality, and thus tabooed.
Indeed, consider current events; there are wars now in which invaders rape women to express their domination over, and contempt for, their enemy's ethnic/religious group (or even to make that group reject the "dishonored" women and diminish the next generation). It's been rather a fanfic assumption that the DE's might use rape that way, as an expression of contempt*.
*yes, DE rape is such a fan fic thing, while rape perpetrated by muggle/muggle born friendly families leading to the main character committing accidental incest must totally be canon.
Would you excuse me for a few moments? I think their anti-logic has finally caused my brain to melt, and start leaking out my ears.
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pantyless_angel | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 04:51 pm (UTC) |
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| And calling your children after a bunch of dead people, as if they are some sort of a do-over is bad enough, but brother James and sister Lily is just icky. Yuck!
I really, really don't get how just naming your children after their grandparents is "Yuck!" It just boggles my mind. I do remember something about some cultures not naming children after elders who are still alive in case Death gets confused when he comes and takes the baby instead.(Which Death probably finds highly insulting by the way.) But I always thought naming kids after relatives dead or alive was a rather common thing.
But of course they are nasty, horrible Gryffindors, and a Potter, and Weasley on top of that so anything they do has to somehow be nasty, icky, and wrong. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
ekaterinv | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-16 11:28 pm (UTC) |
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| My maternal grandparents named one of their girls after my grandmother and one of their boys after my grandfather. I'm rather... bemused that these weirdos think that's "icky". Everything on the planet isn't sexual.
My middle name is a "legacy" one on my father's side, and has been in the family since the seventeenth century, always passed down to the eldest girl, as a tribute to Queen Christina of Sweden. I think that's pretty awesome. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
pantyless_angel | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-17 12:01 am (UTC) |
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| They do have a creepy habit of sexualising just about everything don't they? And negatively sexualising it too. I think that says quite a lot about them when you think about it...
That is awesome. My mom named me Holly because out of all the names she'd picked out it was the one my grandmother on my father's side really didn't like. -_-'... | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
ekaterinv | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-17 12:15 am (UTC) |
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| | My first name is the name of a character from a sitcom :P. My parents were trying to think of a name in case of a girl, and my mom just wasn't satisfied with anything, and my dad saw the TV guide with her on the cover and said, "hey, how about..." At least she's a pretty cool character, though, and I wasn't exactly named after her. Funny thing: one reason my mom liked the name was because it was rare back when I was born. It isn't rare any longer. To put it mildly. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| sarahfrost | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-17 12:18 am (UTC) |
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| My middle name is a "legacy" one on my father's side, and has been in the family since the seventeenth century, always passed down to the eldest girl, as a tribute to Queen Christina of Sweden. I think that's pretty awesome.
So do I! | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
quantumreality | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-17 03:02 pm (UTC) |
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| I agree with the level of awesome. :)
My name is pretty common, but it's both part of one of my parents' names as well as being a Biblical name so that's probably the origin story for mine. :)
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summeriris | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-18 09:29 am (UTC) |
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| | I'm called after my maternal grandmother, just like 5 cousins on my mother's side. My sister is called after our paternal grandmother, just like the 3 cousins on my father's side. It's extremely common in my family to name children after their relatives. It's so common that when someone doesn't do this, people ask why. Isn't it amazing that it's creepy beyond belief that little James and Lily are named in this tradition, but it's A-OK that little Al has been lumbered with Albus Severus. Another someone who will never tell his given name to anybody and who won't mention his unfortunate arrangement of initials either. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
quantumreality | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-19 11:02 am (UTC) |
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| But little Al wasn't ~creepily named for dead people~; he was being named to ~honor Saint Sevvypiekins~.
Actually, haven't the delusional Snapefen whined about how it was only his middle name? (-_-) | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
chienne | | Subject: | Re: And Terri_testing has arrived! XD | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-02-17 12:03 am (UTC) |
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| And calling your children after a bunch of dead people, as if they are some sort of a do-over is bad enough, but brother James and sister Lily is just icky. Yuck!
LOL. Could it be more obvious that neither Arsinoe nor granatapfelrot have ever done any kind of genealogical research (on their own family or others.)
It seems like all of my German ancestors were named Friedrich, Johann, Heinrich, Wilhelm, Emma, Maria or Wilhelmina and they named all their children the same. Now and then, they'd get creative so they'd be an Otto or a Sophia, but they'd probably have one of the standards as their middle names. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
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He farts rainbows and is ded from snake. - Harry/Jocasta OTP
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