Wow 2012 is going to be the year of Potter wank reborn isn't it? Do you think Harmonians with start showing up again? I actually kind of miss them.
Did subtle1science seriously just compare Snape to Aragorn? XP LOL Oh, hell no. You have got to be fucking kidding me.
to let Sev follow his path and cut him some slack for a change.
So what is he wants to join that genocidal group that wants to see you, and everyone like you dead or worse! You're a bad friend if you don't support his decision to completely disrespect you as a human being and join the wizard KKK!
Exactly. 'Letting Sev follow his own path' in this case would have meant being okay with the fact that he was friends with people who thought she was an inferior human being, and being okay with the fact that he was planning to join a group dedicated to ruling over people like her. (And, you know, they often trumpet that Regulus, and therefore Severus, only thought they were going to 'rule' muggles and muggleborns, not 'kill' them. How is that any better? In fact, it's doubly creepy that Snape wanted muggleborns in their place beneath him considering that that included the woman he loved, ffs.
They of course try to diminish that, blame it on someone else, or completely ignore it all to where the "mudblood indecent" was the only bad thing Snape ever did to Lily. TPT clearly shows however that it was just the horrible crash after a long downward spiral.
Your value as a person is determined by the man you choose to date, sorry. If a man considers himself to have held you in affection for several years, whether or not this affection is also mixed with calling you bigoted insults and joining a terrorist group against the right to exist of people like you, his perseverance deserves a reward. Do not date the one you find attractive at a time in life you think he's extracted his head out of his arse at last. Give yourself as a reward to the one who wants you.
You're worthless if you don't make the right choice here. Even if you're the kind of person who would risk her life to stand up to a wouldbe genocidal dictator and ultimately sacrifice her life for her son.
Also, they don't get how forgiveness works. It doesn't occur in a vacuum. There's more than just the offense itself to consider, there's also the context that the offense occured in, not to mention the individual personalities and general behaviour of the offender and the offended. And the general behaviour of Snape at that point was to ignore Lily's concerns about the people he hung out with, to deflect blame regarding those concerns onto people he hated, and to assume that 'sorry' covered everything once he finally realised that he'd gone too far and should have listened to her long ago.
It's like they're going by the definition of an apology as taught to a young child. I don't know about anyone else, but growing up if I did something bad towards someone I was told to apologize. But there wasn't much explanation to what that meant. It was just something that you did and everything was okay after. Of course everything was fine after because I did what I was told and there was no reason to reprimand me further. And if it was apologizing to another child, the other child was told "See, they said sorry. Now don't fight anymore and go play." Doesn't work that way in adult world.
Though I am looking forward to more IC talks between my character and Lily about Best Friends Gone Bad. Her advice will probably end up being "You did the right thing. If he changes, then maybe you can salvage the friendship, but only if he changes because he realized he was wrong and not just to get you back."
What actually makes you "uncommonly kind"? It's actually less common in the books for someone to refuse a friend's apology. Hermione and Harry forgive Ron for abandoning them in the forest. Luna forgives Ron for saying mean things to her. Harry forgives Snape for everything he ever said - so why couldn't you?
As spake by rattlesnakeroot
Ron didn't call Harry and Hermione a grossly rude racist word...
Luna didn't get called a grossly rude word by Ron...
And it's not canonically backed up that Harry forgave Snape (sorry, I mean Severus) everything ever said - more that Harry acknowledged Snape as a man who went to considerable lengths to assist Dumbledore in his plans even when he found the nature of the plans, or the subject of those plans, quite objectionable.
So, uh, rattlesnakeroot?
NONE OF THESE THINGS IS LIKE THE SNAPE CALLING LILY A GROSSLY OFFENSIVE WORD THING.
To add to that: None of these things are like Snape calling Lily a grossly offensive word after years of taking her for granted, hanging around with people who'd want to see her dead or worse, completely ignoring her concern for him, changing the subject when he knows she's right instead of just admitting it, and eventually proving her worst fears for him by joining a group of malicious racist fucks, who are specifically racist against people like her.
Lily was very right in dropping Snape, and not forgiving him. His own actions after she broke off their friendship prove that. No, Snape did not have an obligation to change for her, but she sure as hell didn't have an obligation to stand by him when his intentions were so clear. They both had choices, he chose the dark arts over Lily, and she chose self respect over him.
To be precise, he called her a racist word while she was defending him as a way to prove his superiority over her to the person he was actually angry at. It's like "count the ways that Snape utterly failed basic humanity! There's at least three in this one sentence alone!"
You know, is it weird that I can't decide whether I think Lily should've forgiven Snape or not? At least in my opinion it was fairly obvious from a reader's perspective that Snape didn't mean what he said, but then again, Lily wouldn't have had any way of knowing that, I don't think. In any case, Lily didn't do anything that wasn't sensible, and she certainly doesn't deserve what these people pile on her.
In other news, I just realized I do something similar to what these people do with Snape for my favorite character in the X-Men fandom, Wither. I feel so hypocritical. :/
He called her a racial slur. He was friends with mini-Nazis. "Waah, I didn't really MEAN it" is utterly and completely meaningless. It doesn't matter what the offender was thinking or feeling -- what matters is the pain he caused.
I think Lily put up with Snape's bullshit for far too long as it was.
We know Lily already figured out that Snape and the rest of his friends were planning on joining Voldy in TPT.
Looking back on it now, I've seen others who agreed Lily did the right thing, but thought she "could" have handled things with Snape differently. Maybe she could have said something different during that portrait hole scene. Not that I agree with them, but it's something I questioned myself since I've been in a situation where a relationship was getting toxic. I think a lot of us ask the same question "is there anything more I could have done?" at some point. Given Snape's story arc and that he wasn't going to change until it was too late, I think Lily did the best she could.
He called her a racial slur and hung around with other people who called Lily racial slurs, and Lily saw his final crossing of the line as her boundary to end the friendship. Nobody owes anyone a relationship with them.
I have sympathy for Snape--in the end he's a tragic character; he recognised some of his mistakes and in the end gave his life repairing them. But he wasn't entitled to Lily's friendship; Lily wasn't cruel or a bully because she decided--and it could have been for whatever reason--that she wasn't interested in remaining friends. I think Lily would have seemed somewhat of a doormat to continue a friendship with someone who called her a Mudblood and didn't start to have a problem with calling other people that name until much later. (Not that whether a victim is assertive or not makes it better to call them offensive names.)
(To be honest, I was initially just WTF-ing over why they'd think it was Lily's birthday, until realizing they must've gotten the date from Ltly's headstone in the Godric's Hollow chapter in DH. Now it's more lolzing because of how it's not really celebrating so much as it's "Happy birthday, here's all the reasons you suck for not worshipping Severus, b*tch!" I'm reminded of the Friends episode where Ross is planning to throw a party so he can sit his neighbours down and explain that h's not a bad guy, he just has principles. And Chandler's all "sounds like a fun party." XD)
I do wonder why they're warning her off from [I]James[/I] and not Snape, though....if teen!Lily was such a bitch and they want the best for Snape, wouldn't you think it'd be the other way around? It's like when the same Snapefen who love bashing Harry with "he's just like his asshole dad James!" start insisting how entirely plausible it is that Harry could be Snape's son. Um, no, and why would you even want him to be?
"Happy birthday, here's all the reasons you suck for not worshipping Severus, b*tch!"
I do wonder why they're warning her off from [I]James[/I] and not Snape, though....if teen!Lily was such a bitch and they want the best for Snape, wouldn't you think it'd be the other way around?
Indeed! But I think it's quite simply that in their minds, it's Lily's choice of James that makes her unworthy in the first place. Everything she did up to that point was forgiveable and fixable in their eyes. If she had made the more 'moral' choice and adored Sev properly, her flaws (such as thinking that what she wanted mattered) would have faded with time as he educated her on how to be a moral human being. But since she chose an unworthy bloke, she's obviously unworthy herself.