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He farts rainbows and is ded from snake. - Snape's Muggleness
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| | Subject: | Snape's Muggleness | | Time: | 12:31 pm | | Current Mood: | Unrepentant |
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| RSR rants about Snape's Muggleness. Because she's upset about Snape losing in the the Mugglenet March Madness, and this is somehow associated with why Snapeykins is a misunderstood woobie, because if fans understood him he would have won.
(Yes, Muggleness, instead of "Mugglenet" on which the March Madness Game has now dwindled down to "Cheatin' 50-constant-points-ahead Hermione" versus "Harry-who-may-not-have-a-chance-against-the-Hermione-Fan-Juggernaut." I love the whining going on in the comments on Mugglenet about how it isn't fair if Harry wins because Hermione never wins anything. OMG - spare us the childish nonsense please! I'm embarrassed that I ever told anyone to play that stupid game in the first place.
I couldn't find any such pro-Hermione comments. And let's face it, she's only embarrassed because Snapey didn't win. She was certainly invested enough in him winning.
Ironically, Harry even wished that his father, James, might have been the mysterious "Prince." That's huge. That's as close as it gets in the books to Harry wishing for a father just like Snape, since Snape was the Prince, and not James.
No, it means that Harry was hoping to learn more about his dead father who he never got to know. If anything, it shows what a bad teacher Snape was, because as soon as he was presenting his knowledge seperately from his bad attitude, he was able to teach and teach well, and Harry enjoyed the learning. The only thing missing was Snape's shitty attitude, and all of a sudden it worked.
Well, in truth we know that Snape was capable of great love and sentimentality - yes, go ahead and scoff you rancid cynics as you always do, I don't give a damn. Run around in circles and post that on Ded From Snake if you can't help yourselves. Then please go back and read the books! Snape could have loved his mother and even his father - whose name he kept, unlike Tom Riddle/Lord Voldemort.
Well, since you asked nicely... Also, obligatory snort at her telling US to read the books. And keeping the name you were born with =/= love for the person who gave it to you.
And no . . . I don't have to be "fair" and dismiss Snape's character just to please other fans. What is this "fairness doctrine" of which you rant and rave? Guess what, kids? All characters are not created equal, and in novels clearly some are more important than others. That's true for Shakespeare as well as JKR, who said the books revolve around Snape, Dumbledore, Harry, and Voldemort - and clearly is true, even if you hate the fact. There is no debate left to be had about whether Snape is a main character - it's written in stone as of Book Seven. The insistance that it's your way or the highway is only maginalizing the anti-Snape crowd because you can't admit that you were wrong.
At what point did anyone deny, post-DH, that Snape was a main character? We just said that he wasn't a nice or particularly good person just because he sided with the right side. At least she admits that she isn't fair to other characters. But she still gets in the idea of marginalisation of Snapefen.
Then wobblerlorri gets in with the first reply, and it's a doozy right from the icon: In case anyone was wondering why SadiraSnape has been absent from CoS for about 2 months, it's mostly because I was completely over the Anti-Snape League and their ability to throw their half-baked, cast in stone rewriting of the entire Snape arc all over the place, yet Team Severus couldn't even hint at a different POV of Snape without getting a freakin' point or 4 month suspensions from The Thread That Shall Not Be Named.
She ACTUALLY THINKS that there's an Anti-Snape League, just waiting for a member of 'Team Severus' to innocently say something completely inoffensive so that they can pounce. They literally do not get (or do not want to get) that they get jumped on for faults in their own behaviour. No, we're just LOOKING for something to be offended about, since JKR proved us wrong with DH (note that they'll go back to the 'JKR said so' defense the moment it's something positive about Sevviekins).
They don't want a complex, shades of grey, ultimately human character skulking around. Severus Snape holds a mirror up to the reader, and forces him/her to ask, "Who in my life have I been completely wrong about? Who has suffered because of the way I treated them?"
That's a painful thing to consider. Those of us who can identify with Snape don't have as much trouble doing it, because we have gone out of our way to not be the bully. Maybe we had parents who helped us, maybe we had a few friends who didn't desert us when the going got tough, maybe we found happiness as adults.
Saint Severus and Snapefen. Going out of their way to not be bullies and to consider how others have suffered due to the way they treated them. I can't even.
And RSR's response? It just shocks me that someone always comes up with a new theory that's the opposite of the book, and then they are backed up by people who have been in fandom for years and ought to know better. It's nonsensical. They just can't let it go.
It's a thing of beauty, I tell you. (Edit to add a missing sentence). | comments: Leave a comment     |
| They don't want a complex, shades of grey, ultimately human character skulking around. Severus Snape holds a mirror up to the reader, and forces him/her to ask, "Who in my life have I been completely wrong about? Who has suffered because of the way I treated them?"
*jaw drops*
I just... WUT.
RSR can't be fucking serious. I mean, really? Honestly? The first thing that comes to MY mind when someone brings up Snape is what a shitty person he is to anyone he has authority over. Even Draco comes in for it during HBP, for pete's sake. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | Also? The thing that makes me giggle uncontrollably is the way she changes font sizes several times through the LJ entry. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | That one of them actually admitted that Snapey-wapey-poopookins did something wrong shocks me. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | My personal favourite is one I invented myself: 'Saint Martyr Sevvie-wevvie Snapey-wapey poo-pie-kins McWoobiebum' | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | If you mean wobblerlorri's comment, I don't think she means that Snape was the one in the wrong. I suspect that she actually means that the readers (and the characters) who didn't like Snape were supposed to fall on their knees in grief and beat their breasts over how WRONG they were about Saint Snapey and regret every bit of pain he ever suffered. Never mind that he caused the vast majority of pain for himself, and for others too, it's all about Snape's pain and validation (and their own). I've gotten to the point where I don't actually believe that they comprehend the fact that anyone but them and people like them can even feel pain due to their behaviour. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Exactly. If ANY character would never, ever ask himself if other people suffered because of him, it's Snape. During the Shrieking Shack confrontation, the TWO people who were accessories to James and Lily's murders (Peter and Snape) tried to pass off their own responsibility and the consequences onto the people who had already been most hurt by those actions - Harry, Sirius and Remus. Snape was threatening Sirius with a literal Fate Worse Than Death for a crime Snape himself helped to set up.
Not to mention that if it hadn't been for the prophecy, the Lestranges and Barty Jr would probably not have expected the Longbottoms to know where the Dark Lord went. And look how he treats the OTHER boy who grew up without parents because of him. There's no 'he loved Alice and hated meanie Frank' excuse there. Snape literally makes a habit of attacking and hurting the four surviving people who have already suffered most because of him. The kindest thing I can say about that is that maybe he's lashing out because he feels guilty and can't handle it, but these people don't seem to think that he even should feel bad. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif) ravenstar84 | | Subject: | Re: *hands out tissues* | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-04-05 09:57 pm (UTC) |
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| "The kindest thing I can say about that is that maybe he's lashing out because he feels guilty and can't handle it"
OT, but that's something I've always considered analyizing Snape's behavior. It doens't excuse him being an asshole, but it adds and interesting layer. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| It's very telling how she gives Harry third billing after Saint Snape, Scumbledore. At least he's in front of Voldemort. Where do they keep getting the idea that people are saying Snape is not important to the series? I have never heard of this form anyone but them. I've seen people point out what an ass he is, I've seen people out right hate him, but I have never seen anyone say he was not an important character.
If anything, it shows what a bad teacher Snape was, because as soon as he was presenting his knowledge seperately from his bad attitude, he was able to teach and teach well, and Harry enjoyed the learning. The only thing missing was Snape's shitty attitude, and all of a sudden it worked.
Lol, this. Snape could be a great teacher if he wasn't Snape. He has no interest in actually teaching anyone, or sharing his knowledge. Right from the beginning, the first time we are really introduced to Severus Snape what does he do? He antagonizes an 11 year old boy over not knowing things that are apparently not even on the curriculum until sixth year. He automatically expects people to know what to do, at the same time he belittles both those who don't, and those who do while making no effort to actually teach anything. That is a really shitty trait for a teacher to have | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| Where do they keep getting the idea that people are saying Snape is not important to the series? I have never heard of this form anyone but them. I've seen people point out what an ass he is, I've seen people out right hate him, but I have never seen anyone say he was not an important charact
Well, if you dare belittle him by not liking his personality, you must be belittling his importance as well, and belittling him in EVERY OTHER WAY - and thus belittling his fans too, you horrible oppressive person who doesn't go out of their way to Not Be A Bully, like the Snapefen do! | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Those of us who can identify with Snape don't have as much trouble doing it, because we have gone out of our way to not be the bully.
Wait, what? | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | I know. That was the bit that stopped me cold. Since when have you seen a Snapefen go out of their way to avoid offensive or oppressive behaviour? I'll take 'Never' for 500. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | What got me is that I was really (somehow) expecting that it would say "Those of us who can identify with Snape don't have as much trouble doing it, because we have treated people badly and know it deep down, even if we don't admit it at the time," or something along those lines. Not even because of their own behavior, but because (even knowing how they are) I took the bit about looking into a mirror to be about Snape forcing himself to look into it and see who he'd hurt. It didn't even occur to me until I got to the end of the sentence that they'd just meant that Snape was the one everyone was wrong about and had hurt. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
mcity | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-04-06 03:52 pm (UTC) |
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| | The weird thing is that I can identify with Snape, and I've been a dick to people much like he was, in ways I sincerely and deeply regret. I don't try to mollify or excuse my failings; I've actually apologized to some of those people. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Just an FYI, the "anti-Snape league" may be an exaggeration, but there are some key posters on COS who SIP and the rest have been fighiting back and forth with for longest time already, and their doing it just to rile Snapefen up. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them did say Snape wasn't that important of a character or something along those lines.
That said, I'm sick and tired of SIP and the rest of them who act like COS represents all of fandom. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| | Oh God, that always bugs me. It's just so goddamn juvenile. And they apply it to everyone that don't have the same ~he was so good and suffered so much and too good for this sinful world~ view of Snape as they do. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| | And the only reason she even uses "Snape" as part of the appellation is because she probably couldn't figure out how to make "Severus" fit into it. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| I saw that last year. I thought something that original deserved to be an acronym. This was what I came up with...
S.N.A.T.E.R. The Snape Neutrality And Toleration Enclave Register. Dedicated to the protection of Canon Snape....Always.
I was going to use it on her Journal but thought I had teased them enough.
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mcity | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-04-06 03:48 pm (UTC) |
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| >Well, in truth we know that Snape was capable of great love and sentimentality - yes, go ahead and scoff you rancid cynics as you always do, I don't give a damn. Run around in circles and post that on Ded From Snake if you can't help yourselves. Then please go back and read the books! Snape could have loved his mother and even his father - whose name he kept, unlike Tom Riddle/Lord Voldemort.
Yes, he was capable of it. And so was Voldemort.
>They don't want a complex, shades of grey, ultimately human character skulking around.
This is ironic, considering that they insist that anyone who didn't like Snape is the deepest black, especially Lily.
>Those of us who can identify with Snape don't have as much trouble doing it, because we have gone out of our way to not be the bully
Snape deliberately bullied people. He didn't go out of his way not to; quite the opposite. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| They don't want a complex, shades of grey, ultimately human character skulking around.
I really wish they would make up their freaking minds on whether "shades of gray"originally typod "shades of gary" JSYK... I wonder what the color gary would look like? actually exists in HP. They keep flip flopping on this, and they can't have it both ways dammit! | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
mcity | | Link: | (Link) | | Time: | 2012-04-06 06:12 pm (UTC) |
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| | It's almost as if their "principles" are based on the positions they want to support, not the other way around! | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| They just can't let it go.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| I'm focusing on the wrong thing here, but Dumbledore's a half blood now? Since when? Didn't his dad go to Azkaban while his mother took care of Ariana (which had to require magic, right, to deal with Ariana's uncontrolled magic bursts)?
Oi, and now I feel a little bad not seeing Snape as a main character, despite his being one of the most important ones. But Main Characters aren't always synonymous with Important Characters (Voldemort's probably the most important character after Harry, and he didn't even show up in PoA and HBP).
On Harry wishing his dad was the Prince. *facepalm* Ugh, please. It had nothing to do with Harry wanting the Prince himself to be his father; he felt a connection to the Prince, and badly wanted to believe that connection was James guiding him in yet another fatherly way from beyond the grave. He wantedto feel closer to James. If Harry'd formed a connection with Riddle's diary without Tom revealing his own identity, he'd probably have looked for a way to explain the diary as being James's too. | | (Reply to this) (Thread) |
| Dumbledore was a half blood. Like Harry, he was the son of a pureblood father and a muggleborn mother. But that still counts as 'half-blood'.
And yes, they tend to equate Harry not asking questions about his parents as being not interested in them, despite the fact that he considered giving up Patronus lessons, just to hear their voices as they died, ffs. Of course he saw a book belonging to a male of that year and hoped it was his dad's. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
| Icon love.
Also, you have to remember Harry spent ten years being told not to ask questions. That's pretty strong conditioning. And his heart's desire in book one was to see his family. | | (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread) |
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He farts rainbows and is ded from snake. - Snape's Muggleness
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