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Woman of the hour, with your super power...
So, I'm running a Mutants and Masterminds game where we're rebooting the DC Universe, changing all the crap we don't like, and revisiting/redoing stories we loved and exploring new possibilities, while getting to play pretend as our favorite heroes. Kind of like Ultimate Marvel (minus all the gore and stupidity) meets Cops and Robbers (except I always get to be the robbers). My two current players are playing as Batman and Superman , while I'm fleshing out the first few years of their adventures as the DCU begins anew, familiar but different.

The problem we've having is...what do we do about Wonder Woman?

Nobody's playing Wonder Woman, but we all feel that an important part of the DCU as a whole is her presence, and that she's equal with Supes and Bats in stature if not grandeur...plus I just plain love the character, so she's in as an NPC at least. One thing I've been wanting to do is take a crack at her origin, and this is where we come to a bit of an impasse.

Wonder Woman in the Modern DC Universe gets her start at about the same time as Superman and Batman, and is about as old as them. Her World War II adventures still mostly happened, except it was her mother, Queen Hippolyta, that had them, only giving birth to Wondy many years after the war.

The thing is, I read this John Byrne (yeah, that John Byrne) idea which got me thinking: since the Amazons are immortal, and the blessings that Wonder Woman gets basically make her immortal, wouldn't it be cool if Diana was the World War II Wonder Woman who returns to the world at the dawn of the modern superhero?

The only real problems I have with the idea is that I don't want Diana to be too jaded or scarred by her experiences in the war (in addition to fighting crime, she did serve as a nurse and Army intelligence agent in her secret identity), and I want her to maintain the "outsider looking in" aspect that I feel works so well.

To be honest, I don't think it'll be a problem. Being raised by the immortal Amazons, Diana takes a long view of things, and she's still damn young by their standards (being, born in that last couple of hundred years in this version). Additionally, one of the things I think most defines her is that her attitude never tarnishes; that, no matter what happens, she maintains an indefatigably high spirit, believing in the best humanity has to offer and striving towards it.

However, the fellow playing Superman states that he thinks it feels better if the badass warrior queen Hippolyta rides forth in the invisible jet into World War II, hacking Nazi Panzers apart with a sword. And, again, there's that worrisome idea that it might paint Wonder Woman as too worldly to have had her fighting crime and Nazis, plus filing paperwork and mooning over that doofus Steve Trevor sixty years ago.

Anyway, the question I put to you lovable lounge-goers is, what do you think? What version of Wonder Woman would YOU rather play?

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	sepiamagpie 2010-04-13 01:49 pm UTC (link)
	I kind of like the idea of a Wonder dynasty best, I confess. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	neuronin 2010-04-15 12:38 am UTC (link)
	That icon is sweet! Any idea where the art came from? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sepiamagpie 2010-04-15 12:39 am UTC (link)
	no idea, sorry! I got it from a set of icons made by a lady called Perletwo. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	cmdr_zoom 2010-04-13 02:48 pm UTC (link)
	Go with Polly (who is a kickass character in her own right), I'd say. (Reply to this)

	iczer6 2010-04-13 04:22 pm UTC (link)
	I just want to suggest that 'jaded' Wondy might not be a bad idea in and of itself. She doesn't have to be super bitter, and she can still hope for the best in humanity but a Wonder Woman who's a bit tarnished could be a fun character. I'm leaning towards letting Hippolyta be the 60's WW since family bonds are part of Wondy's character. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	neuronin 2010-04-14 01:55 am UTC (link)
	No matter what, Diana's connection to the Amazons and her mother are gonna be an important part of her character, and Hippolyta has kicked about seven thousand kinds of ass in her time, so it's not like "missing out" on World War II would affect her respect, love and admiration for Polly. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iczer6 2010-04-14 03:05 am UTC (link)
	Not saying it would I'm just throwing my opinion out there. (Reply to this)(Parent)

squeakytoy
2010-04-13 09:00 pm UTC (link)

I think the experience issue is probably the main thing for me - she'd need to have comparative experience with Bats and Supes so they're interacting with someone on their own level.

So, yeah, a generational Wonder Woman thing? Which is to say that she could be thousands of years old, but this is the first time she's been considered an adult and allowed to play outside the sandbox.

So to speak.

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neuronin
2010-04-14 01:51 am UTC (link)

Well, Batman spent, like, ten years traveling the world learning legerdemain, forensic chemistry, krabi krabong and housebreaking, so no real worry there. And we roleplayed through a variant "Man of Steel"/"Birthright" origin where Clark spent his graduate school years traveling Europe and Africa as a reporter for the AP before debuting as Superman, so I'm not terribly worried.

Plus, Diana would be almost seventy years out of date, so I'm not worried about the experiential gap all that much.

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rogue
2010-04-13 10:03 pm UTC (link)

I like Polly! Also it gives Diana a connection to other Man's World citizens, particularly Americans - being the child of a soldier in the generation she's going to interact with is something that'll give her common ground with a lot more people vs being an immortal who fought in the war herself. Not that Diana needs to be ~common~ but I think with her kind of aloof cultural differences it helps to have some ins for conversation and battle-related respect.

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	neuronin 2010-04-14 01:52 am UTC (link)
	Ooh, I like that bit about her being the child of a WWII soldier. (Reply to this)(Parent)

brennalarose
2010-04-13 11:28 pm UTC (link)

I'm torn. On one hand, I like the idea of it being a dynastic thing. On the other hand, I like idea of Diana knowing war all too well and being a bit more worldly. Maybe it's a tradition for the future queen to go out and learn why war-sucks-but-people-are-okay, so she doesn't wipe out the island by declaring war on the outside world. So, Diana knows a bit about the world, but still has that untarnished spirit, because she's seen the world on both levels and wants desperately to believe in the good parts.

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pfeffermuse
2010-04-14 03:15 pm UTC (link)

I read this John Byrne (yeah, that John Byrne) idea which got me thinking: since the Amazons are immortal, and the blessings that Wonder Woman gets basically make her immortal, wouldn't it be cool if Diana was the World War II Wonder Woman who returns to the world at the dawn of the modern superhero?

The idea isn't new, and certainly not unique to John Byrne. The Linda Carter Wonder Woman series had its first year on CBS set in World War II; then, when it was cancelled by CBS, ABC picked it up and moved the storyline into the present day.

I really only like the first year episodes -- they were as campy as the original Adam West Batman -- but IIRC, they sort of did a tie-up opening episode in the second season, where at WWII's end Wonder Woman returns to Paradise Island. Whatever the reason for her returning in the then-present day, and whatever government agency, the Steve Trevor she meets is the son of the Steve Trevor she was in love with during WWII.

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neuronin
2010-04-14 09:46 pm UTC (link)

Interesting...I always kinda vaguely remembered episodes that weren't more 1970s than disco (specifically, I remember one where James Cagney/Edward G. Robinson-type thugs trick a bunch of Amazons into giving them their Amazonium bracelets and thus get their powers, I think), but I always just figured I was misremembering 'em.

Anyway, I did read the idea attributed to John-boy, so credit where credit was due.

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zellieh
2010-04-14 07:32 pm UTC (link)

I think having Diana present in WWII would give her an equal thing with Bats and Supes, actually. Bats is also Brucie, which gives him an in to the moneyed world; Supes is also an investigative journalist, which gives him an in to the media; having Diana know people from her time in WWII who are now senior people in Man's World gives her a similar kind of influence -- it's not the same sphere of influence as Bats or Supes, but it balances out.

And it would give the team some useful dramatic possibilities. Need to know about an old enemy? Diana knows. Need access to a modern Man's World military person, bureaucrat or politician? Diana might have worked with them in WWII. Need access to the intelligence community? Maybe Diana still has clearance. Also she can vouch for the new guys while they're getting set-up.

Finally, she wouldn't have to be jaded. It depends which aspect of warfare you focus on -- maybe Diana was impressed with people's support of each other and kindness to strangers, their camaraderie and Blitz spirit. And it might help to have her be more bad-ass and generally useful, since she's not being actively played; it'd be easy for her to be overlooked, and making her have knowledge and resources the other characters don't could help counteract that.

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	neuronin 2010-04-14 10:03 pm UTC (link)
	Plus, Diana'd give 'em a connection to the JSA, which they otherwise lack. (Reply to this)(Parent)

paladin
2010-04-14 07:45 pm UTC (link)

I think that Hippolyta should be the one who fought in WWII because otherwise Diana would have a huge advantage in experience over a Supes and Batman who were just starting out. She would almost have to be the senior member of their partnership rather than having all three be equals, because for all of their walking the world she'd be the only one who'd really fought evil before (and would have the further advantage of that evil having been the Nazis, who are like the gold standard of evil). She would still be able to reference things that happened in WWII, have older contacts and old enemies, only these would be people that her mother knew, not that she knows (and it helps that Diana and Hippolyta usually are drawn to look much the same).

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neuronin
2010-04-14 10:01 pm UTC (link)

The experiential gap was a brief concern I held, too, but we actually roleplayed through young Bruce Wayne chasing down gangsters in Paris (alongside one of his mentors, Henri Ducard), defending Indian villages from dacoits, and bringing down a gang of high-tech burglars in Hong Kong. Plus, we had Clark Kent secretly clearing out groups of refugees in falling buildings in Angola, crippling terrorist hit teams in Cairo, and single-handedly putting out huge brushfires in Kenya. Anyway, I think a little seasoning under Diana's, um, girdle won't hurt the trio's dynamic.

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	cmdr_zoom 2010-04-14 11:14 pm UTC (link)
	PS: There's a part of me that says "screw 'modern', just play in the era of New Frontier, for it is Awesome." (Reply to this)(Thread)

	neuronin 2010-04-15 12:37 am UTC (link)
	Agreed (in fact, I'm just yoinking a bunch of stuff from New Frontier for backstory), but I've also always been gaga about the whole "Earth-2" idea where there're these separate but thematically linked super-groups throughout history. Plus, restarting the universe the way we like it kind of precludes playing a game in the 50s. (Reply to this)(Parent)

pfeffermuse
2010-04-15 02:20 am UTC (link)

Silly question, about having either Diana or Hippolyta as (a) Wonder Woman in World War II: Where does that leave the whole Spear of Destiny angle? (Where the reason why none of the golden age superheroes/Justice Society were able to take out the Axis was because of Hitler's possession of various magic(k)al artefacts caused any superhero who crossed into Axis-held territory to lose his/her powers.)

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neuronin
2010-04-15 02:55 am UTC (link)

I'm keeping the Spear of Destiny angle, since it keeps the Spectre and Doctor Fate from just putting the whammy on Hitler and his cronies, keeping the war from taking a crazy different turn from reality. I am, however pretty sure that the Spear's powers are pretty much contained to a small area around Hitler, so there's still the rest of the European AND the Pacific theatre in need of super-help. PLUS there's a huge plethora of Fifth Columnists and agents provocateurs running around DC World War II, like Baroness Paula Von Gunther, Baron Blitzkrieg, Red Panzer, Captain Nazi (though I might just leave him and all the Shazam! characters out) and such for Amazing Man, the Red Bee, and Hawkman to punch out.

I'm still wondering whether to use the original JSA founding story (which, honestly, ain't all that great) or a variant of the Earth-2 JSA founding, where Hitler captures a bunch of American heroes and the J.S.A. forms to rescue them from being sacrificed with the Spear of Destiny, and then tangling with the Valkyries Hitler and his goons summon to kill F.D.R. But, that's neither here nor there.

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