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a collection : gathering flowers ([info]anthologia) wrote in [info]fandom_lounge,
@ 2012-01-23 13:03:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:bronies are gross

Regarding the latest My Little Pony episode,
I debated on whether to post this at Fandom Rant or not, but since ultimately this is a fandom activist post (and this comm has more members, so better chance of getting the message out), I felt this might be the best place.

On the 21st, the MLP episode "The Last Roundup" aired. And it featured some deeply troubling ableism in the form of the canonization of the fandom version of the grey mare with the bubbles cutie mark (often known as "Derpy Hooves", though less problematically as Ditzy Doo or Bright Eyes). (Here is a link to the scene in question, for anyone wanting to see for themselves.)

Since then, some of the more reasonable members of the fandom have been coming together to contact Hasbro and the Hub and anyone else we can get our hands on to get this fixed in some way - whether it be dubbing or removing the scene entirely, whatever works.

The following are some things you can do (borrowed from the original poster elsewhere, Sphyre):

Sign the petition to draw attention to this issue.

E-mail the people involved:

Hasbro Customer Service
(Note: you can contact them in regards to their toy line, Hasbro Studios, which is where the show comes from, and in relation to the HUB. If you use the form email, please send one for [product] Hub - [category] Hub, [product] Hub - [category] General, [product]My Little Pony - [category] Hub, and [product]My Little Pony - [category] General]. Don't bother picking out a specific product, those are only for dealing with toy issues. And the point of sending the email so many times is so that even though you're likely to get a very dismissive email they will see that we are serious about how upsetting this is.)
Email Address: hasbro@custhelp.com (requires an account to use this email - stick to the form emails above if you don't have one.)
Phone: 800-255-5516
Hours:Monday - Friday 8 am to 8 pm EST
Saturday - 10 am to 6:30 pm EST

For US residents, contact the overarching company, Discovery Networks, that runs The Hub. (It should go without saying, but please do not mention if you watch the show through illegal means.)

DHX Media, the company that does the animation (I suspect they don't have much say, but what the hell, anyone we can get.)
Email: vancouver@dhxmedia.com
Development Kids
Tel: 1.416.363.8034 x277
Other Inquiries
info@dhxmedia.com

Jason Thiessen (don't currently have contact information for him, but he has a Deviant Art page and a LinkedIn account. If anyone can get their hands on e-mail or anything, that would be much appreciated.)

Amy Keating Rogers, who wrote the script.
Contact Page.
(310) 273-2764
amykeatingrogers@pacbell.net Amy has replied to e-mails explaining that she'd had no idea about the ableist connotations of the word 'derpy' and would never have included it if she had. She also doesn't have any idea about what the Hub/Hasbro knows and whether they might have any plans to fix this. And fauxpologizing all over the place now.

Tabitha St. Germain, the voice actress. Again, not necessarily likely that she chose the voice for Bright Eyes, but it might help if she was made aware of what's going on and could help us. Has replied and answered that she based the voice on a teenage boy she knew. And fauxpologizing all over the place now.

Lauren Faust's Deviant Art page, on the off chance that she still has enough sway to help us.

BOOST THE SIGNAL. Tweet, post to Facebook, send it to feminist/SJ platforms, whatever you can think of. If anyone knows of any advocacy groups that could help with this, that would also be much appreciated.



(Post a new comment)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2012-01-23 07:54 pm UTC (link)
Congratulations, "bro"nies. Thanks to your (ignorant or just uncaring) use and support, an ableist slur has been enshrined in canon. Well. Done.

I have never been so ashamed to be part of this fandom.

Darkly amusing to see the comments from those who think she sounded "too retarded", having been confronted with the truth of what the term they toss around actually means.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]beejium
2012-01-24 01:30 am UTC (link)
Eh, I don't think Pony fandom (in general) is any worse than any other fandom in that regard. I'd lay the blame more on the showrunners who went to the lengths of incorporating fanon into the show without even bothering to look up the meaning behind it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2012-01-24 02:17 am UTC

[info]dracobolt
2012-01-23 09:08 pm UTC (link)
What I'm kind of hoping, or what might be a good solution to this, is for it to be buildup to an episode where Rainbow Dash and others learn that what one person might think is a playful or non-hurtful nickname can actually hurt a person, even if that person doesn't feel comfortable telling others to stop, and also a way to show that the characters can and should be accepting of ponies who are different.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]wankismyfandom
2012-01-23 10:49 pm UTC (link)
I'm hoping this, too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]keri
2012-01-23 10:14 pm UTC (link)
This is really disappointing. I can't understand the dialogue very well in the show without subtitles and couldn't hear what was being said in that scene, so it looked to me like it was just pandering to fans in a facepalm sort of way, and I thought Ditzy Doo was supposed to be jinxed/unlucky or something. It was really confusing what that scene had to do with the way the plot developed - for at least a little bit after, I kept expecting Ditzy Doo to appear again and have the jinx/clutz be part of the moral of the day.

(Reply to this)


[info]pantyless_angel
2012-01-23 11:05 pm UTC (link)
Way to go, sending a damaging, hurtful message to your target audience just so you can pander to the jerk-ass fans!

(Reply to this)


[info]sarahfrost
2012-01-23 11:43 pm UTC (link)
I don't agree with dubbing/removing the scene--it exists, it is offensive, but I'm uncomfortable with the general concept of expecting someone to slice and dice parts of their published work at the will of the fanbase. What might be better would be a later episode where Rainbow Dash et al learn that nicknames can be hurtful and different ponies can be different, like [info]dracobolt says above.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]anthologia
2012-01-24 12:34 am UTC (link)
That wouldn't change the offensive caricature they've made the character, though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sarahfrost, 2012-01-24 12:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-24 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarahfrost, 2012-01-24 01:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-24 01:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarahfrost, 2012-01-24 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-01-24 02:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-24 05:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarahfrost, 2012-01-24 05:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-01-24 12:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-24 06:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-01-24 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-24 06:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-01-24 06:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-24 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bwthree, 2012-01-24 08:21 pm UTC

[info]herongale
2012-01-24 02:15 am UTC (link)
Why are you uncomfortable? I'm honestly curious. It seems like if George Lucas can go ahead and edit in all sorts of extra effects and scenes into his original Star Wars movies so as to "perfect" them (I think the edits actually took away something, imho, but no one can argue that from his POV, he was correcting flaws), well...

I think there's something almost more problematic about thinking that just because something is formally "published" as media, it should remain permanently set in stone and not corrected or changed in any way. It would be wrong to actually try to recall the original problematic version of this (and at this point, is probably impossible to do anyway), but to fix it for any kind of DVD release or later airings of the show on TV? Based on fan requests and perhaps some internal acknowledge that the original version was something less than ideal?

Why not?

I don't think your solution is necessarily wrong, I just feel like changing things to please fans isn't a harmful practice at all, when employed with editorial discretion and creative restraint. Obviously it's a matter of judgment. Some things shouldn't be changed, maybe most not, but so long as the original creators are alive and can consent to and even make the changes themselves, I see no harm. The only harm I see is when works are edited WITHOUT an original author/publisher's consent. What I find far more uncomfortable is the idea of updating older works of literature so as to remove offensive language, since oftentimes that removes important historical context and makes it harder for people to learn about different ways of thinking.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sarahfrost, 2012-01-24 06:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2012-01-29 07:00 am UTC
In the absence of a like button... - [info]romana03, 2012-02-03 03:09 am UTC

[info]wankismyfandom
2012-01-24 02:51 am UTC (link)
I got a very nice e-mail back from Amy Keating Rogers. She was very kind, as well as surprised and dismayed to hear the meaning behind the name.

I hope this means change could be coming. It might be too late for this season, but maybe down the road?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]anthologia
2012-01-24 03:13 am UTC (link)
Ditto! I also asked her if she had any idea what Hasbro/the Hub knew or were planning to do, and she replied that she'd written the episode a year ago and honestly didn't know.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]caito
2012-01-24 02:58 am UTC (link)
Is "derpy" an ableist slur? Wikipedia says "in Internet slang it may be used as a placeholder expression (e.g. unimportant and/or foolish dialog may be expressed as "derp derp derp")". Is there more to it than that?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]wankismyfandom
2012-01-24 03:09 am UTC (link)
Some links: http://rosesmusings.tumblr.com/post/12006211428/tw-ableism-the-issue-of-herp-derp
http://www.journalfen.net/community/unfunny_fandom/10611.html
http://genderbitch.tumblr.com/post/1005199855/conclusions-the-word-derp-and-variations

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]caito, 2012-01-24 03:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-24 05:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2012-01-24 05:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-24 05:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankismyfandom, 2012-01-25 01:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nursewretched, 2012-01-24 02:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2012-01-24 08:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-24 05:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uldihaa, 2012-01-24 08:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zellieh, 2012-01-24 01:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2012-01-24 04:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2012-01-24 06:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2012-01-24 05:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2012-01-24 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aaron_agonistes, 2012-01-24 07:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yoritomo_reiko, 2012-01-24 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emily_goddess, 2012-01-25 02:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2012-01-24 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]footsie, 2012-01-24 09:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seca, 2012-01-24 05:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anarchicq, 2012-01-24 08:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2012-01-24 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wyf_of_bathe, 2012-01-24 04:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anarchicq, 2012-01-24 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wyf_of_bathe, 2012-01-26 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anarchicq, 2012-01-26 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emily_goddess, 2012-01-25 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fryingpanofdoom, 2012-01-28 06:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kalloway, 2012-01-24 11:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ldymusyc, 2012-01-25 03:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2012-01-25 05:31 pm UTC

[info]sandglass
2012-01-24 04:56 am UTC (link)
Using Wikipedia for anything related to bigotry or social justice is a really bad idea. A lot of the editors are privileged douchebros who shut down any discussion of *isms.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mirhanda
2012-01-24 06:03 pm UTC (link)
What would really affect them, more than petitions which they usually ignore, is to cause the ratings to go down. Stop watching, get all your friends to stop watching, get your kids to stop watching. Let them know you have stopped and why.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]anthologia
2012-01-24 06:10 pm UTC (link)
Actually, we've been getting e-mails trickling in from people involved in the show, so I, personally, would wait a little while longer and see if they address it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cygnia, 2012-01-24 09:15 pm UTC

[info]sadisticferret
2012-01-24 09:26 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who felt uncomfortable with this, and I'm especially glad to see that Amy K. Rogers, at least, has responded so positively to complaints.

(Reply to this)


[info]paladin
2012-01-24 11:35 pm UTC (link)
At this point, would sending more e-mails to the non-struck addresses still be helpful to the cause of getting something done about this? I'm not trying to silence voices of dissent; I've never been involved in something like this before and don't want to cause more harm than good. Sorry for intruding.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]anthologia
2012-01-24 11:55 pm UTC (link)
By all means! We still haven't heard anything solid from Hasbro or the Hub yet. I just struck some because they seemed somewhat like dead ends, and as such not worth bothering anymore.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Amy Keating Rogers
[info]bwthree
2012-01-25 01:57 am UTC (link)
Unless this is timestamped earlier than the positive response you guys received, it might not hurt to continue emailing her.

http://redcuddlypyro.tumblr.com/post/16426586622/so-theyve-been-getting-way

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Amy Keating Rogers
[info]sandglass
2012-01-25 02:15 am UTC (link)
I was just about to post that myself.

That's so horribly two-faced of her. Honestly.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Amy Keating Rogers
[info]anthologia
2012-01-25 02:17 am UTC (link)
Might need to curl up in a ball for a while now.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]bwthree, 2012-01-25 03:23 am UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-25 03:35 am UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]bwthree, 2012-01-25 04:42 am UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-25 04:47 am UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]sadisticferret, 2012-01-25 06:56 am UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-25 07:54 pm UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]sadisticferret, 2012-01-27 03:56 am UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-25 07:54 pm UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-25 07:59 pm UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-25 08:02 pm UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-25 08:04 pm UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-25 08:05 pm UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-25 08:05 pm UTC
Re: Amy Keating Rogers
[info]wankismyfandom
2012-01-28 05:32 am UTC (link)
OP has pulled that link.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Amy Keating Rogers - [info]kannaophelia, 2012-01-30 06:08 am UTC

[info]snacky
2012-01-25 03:42 pm UTC (link)
First: I'm not asking you to delete this, nor is this a reprimand or a warning.

Second: In the future, posts like this are more appropriate for [info]unfunny_fandom.

(Reply to this)

Oh god you guys.
[info]sandglass
2012-01-25 07:50 pm UTC (link)
I sent out:

As a person with an intellectual disability and a family member of the same, I am incredibly upset with the naming and portrayal of “Derpy Hooves”. MLP:FIM is supposed to be about being a positive role model for children and a way to teach them empathy and caring. “Derpy Hooves” is the opposite of empathy and caring. Depicting the intellectually disabled as destructive, clueless, and unhelpful is simply wrong and a disservice to everyone who watches the show. Why did Derpy have to cause so many problems? The intellectually disabled people I know are always incredibly helpful and caring. There are undoubtedly many children with disabilities who watch MLP:FIM and are going to have their feelings hurt by this episode. MLP:FIM could have sent a positive message about respecting others regardless of their differences. Instead it is telling its viewers that the disabled cause problems.


Please do whatever you can to remedy this.


Tabitha St. Germain replied:

Hm.
Well. I'm sorry you are upset. I'm also frankly astonished that you consider yourself intellectually disabled, because I'm reading a letter from someone who is intellectually clearly quite formidable. And so, while I prefer to play with people and engage their natural innocence which I feel is the higher part of them, I'm going to speak to that intelligence that addressed me. Offence is seldom about the object to which it is attached, it's usually an issue of self-love, self-worth. And when you feel it, that is where it is honest to go first, to that feeling, and talk to it first, and deeply, before you try and take your self-esteem out of a total strangers pelt. That's a really short-lived high. (and a detructive long term habit) When you truly value yourself you become open and friendly, slow to take offence, and quick to forgive.

Now, If you are saying that you somehow saw yourself in the portrayal of a cartoon horse and felt offended, I scratch my head. Does a man get offended by the portrayal of Homer Simpson because he's a man? Do people get offended by Disney's Goofy the dog? As a woman, do I get offended by a drag queen because he wears women's clothes and parodies women? No. I recognize that it's not in any way about me. Am I offended that you metaphorically walked into my cyber house and started accusing me. Well, I don't really like it. But no. I'm not offended. This is more direct than that.

There is no intent by myself, -- (and I did not write the scenes, character or her name,-- I'm an actor,) to portray a person of disability. It's a cartoon. A cartoon horse. A loveable clutz? Yes. That's it.

And, for the record, I happen to deeply love and respect all people no matter what their race, religion, ability, disability, sex, beauty or lack thereof, or whatever other marker by which people believe themselves separate from the oneness we all share. I know at core, you and I are the same essential thing. That's why you must know I would never deliberately set out to offend you and if I didn't care, I wouldn't bother to try and explain. I love and respect even you, little sister and I hope you find yourself able to unlock from argument and play and engage some joy and some light. Sweetheart, peace be with you.

all the best,
Tabitha.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-25 07:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-25 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2012-01-26 05:29 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]mad_teacup, 2012-01-25 08:59 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-25 10:15 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]hallidae, 2012-01-25 09:16 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2012-01-25 10:08 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]phosfate, 2012-01-25 10:29 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-01-25 10:46 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-25 10:52 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-01-25 11:19 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]kittikattie, 2012-01-26 12:31 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]kannaophelia, 2012-01-29 07:13 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]puipui, 2012-01-26 12:34 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]bwthree, 2012-01-26 12:48 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-01-26 03:29 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]kannaophelia, 2012-01-29 07:10 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]wankismyfandom, 2012-01-29 03:57 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]kannaophelia, 2012-01-30 05:49 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]ekaterinv, 2012-01-30 09:21 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]sadisticferret, 2012-01-30 03:08 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]anthologia, 2012-01-30 03:52 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]sadisticferret, 2012-01-30 04:31 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]kannaophelia, 2012-01-30 05:48 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]thebratqueen, 2012-01-26 04:20 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]southerngaelic, 2012-01-26 11:56 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]tangentialone, 2012-01-27 01:04 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]tangentialone, 2012-01-27 01:27 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]sadisticferret, 2012-01-27 04:09 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]phosfate, 2012-01-27 10:09 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]kannaophelia, 2012-01-29 07:06 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]come_love_sleep, 2012-01-27 11:05 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]wankismyfandom, 2012-01-27 04:55 pm UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]roachspit, 2012-01-28 12:37 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]sandglass, 2012-01-28 12:53 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]cygnia, 2012-01-29 02:08 am UTC
Re: Oh god you guys. - [info]romana03, 2012-01-29 07:31 am UTC

 
   
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