Log In

Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Developer Area

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area



token ([info]chaimonkey) wrote in [info]fandom_lounge,
@ 2007-07-24 08:23:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
patronuses and animagi: a link?
My roommates and I were discussing a possible Harry Potter theory concerning patronuses and animagi. It rests on the theory that people cannot choose their animagus form. If that's false, the disregard all this, heh.

Considering that one can neither choose their animagus nor their patronis, and that their shapes are dependent on their nature, would one's animagus form be the same as their patronus?

The only case which supports this theory is McGonagall - her animagus form is a bespectacled cat, and in DH she sends out three cat patronuses. Obviously to solidify this theory we'd need more than just one example.

So far I've found a list of known animagi but no compiled list of patronuses. Theory aside, it'd be nice to have a link.

Therefore, I am wondering: are there any other instances where a character's animagus form matches their patronus? What do y'all think of this crackpot theory?

Thanks!

ETA: Spoilers for Deathly Hallows in the comments!


(Post a new comment)


pishbadlarr
2007-07-24 11:35 pm UTC (link)
I didn't know James Potter was an animagus :o Wouldn't that make him also an example of that theory? His patronus was also a stag (I think), shown in PoA.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]joye
2007-07-24 11:40 pm UTC (link)
James is dead in PoA. Harry thinks he sees his dad but it's actually his own patronus.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]luthe
2007-07-24 11:40 pm UTC (link)
The patronus in PoA was Harry's, not James's. Harry merely thought it was James's .

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - pishbadlarr, 2007-07-24 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scarah2, 2007-07-24 11:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - pishbadlarr, 2007-07-25 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stella_polaris, 2007-07-26 02:07 am UTC

[info]rotten_fish
2007-07-24 11:42 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, that's how he kept Remus (the werewolf) in check and Harry's patronus is the stag, not James'.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]joye
2007-07-24 11:39 pm UTC (link)
The other known animagi never cast a patronus in the books. I'm guessing that JKR probably intends them to be the same, but it could be the other way. I've always liked the idea that the patronus does not symbolize one's inner nature, but instead is the incarnation of all that means happiness to a person. Hence why Snape has a doe (since we're already spoiled for DH). His happiness is Lily, but I don't think anyone would say his inner nature was a doe!
Supporting my theory: Harry's patronus is a stag, and his happiness is remembering his parents.

On hogwarts_elite I claimed the blue whale as my patronus. XD

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]spawn_of_kong
2007-07-24 11:45 pm UTC (link)
I guess in that case, my Patronus would have to be a gorilla. :-)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]peachespig
2007-07-24 11:49 pm UTC (link)
His happiness is Lily, but I don't think anyone would say his inner nature was a doe!

It's just his inner woobie showing through. ;_;

But seriously, I agree 100% about the patronus being related to what makes you happy more than being you yourself. Besides the Snape example, we know Tonks's patronus changes to be a wolf when she's in love with Remus (the fact that patronuses can change but animagus forms do not also indicates they don't have to be the same) as well as the fact that Harry's patronus is his Dad's animagus form.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chaimonkey, 2007-07-25 01:36 am UTC

[info]squib
2007-07-25 01:31 am UTC (link)
My patronus would be a fluffy Himalayan. I like that idea. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2007-07-25 02:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2007-07-26 03:41 pm UTC

[info]chaimonkey
2007-07-25 01:32 am UTC (link)
On hogwarts_elite I claimed the blue whale as my patronus. XD

Oh that's too funny, since my roommate uses the blue whale to refer to her sexual appetite. XDD

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Also...
[info]chaimonkey
2007-07-25 01:35 am UTC (link)
I've always liked the idea that the patronus does not symbolize one's inner nature, but instead is the incarnation of all that means happiness to a person.

I think you're dead on with this theory, especially concerning [info]peachespig's note on Tonks' patronus.

Also my patronus would have to be a wolf. I love wolves and all they represent. But my animagus would be a black-footed ferret, according to my friend.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


yuuko
2007-07-25 09:39 am UTC (link)
Yeah, your idea is how I see it, and for me it's what it makes sense the most with canon.

I wonder if my patronus could be a turtle... *ironically, after that thought she returns to lurking*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eljuno
2007-07-26 12:23 am UTC (link)
I think it's probably a combination of happiness and protection, myself. I'm not sure how much further I can explain that, though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]luthe
2007-07-24 11:47 pm UTC (link)
Also, I seriously doubt Dumbledore's animagus form would be a phoenix. Plus, Tonks' patronus changes during HBP, so it seems that patronii are mutable, while animagi forms are permanent.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]scarah2
2007-07-25 12:01 am UTC (link)
Plus, Tonks' patronus changes during HBP, so it seems that patronii are mutable, while animagi forms are permanent.

I agree with that. I think that in general, they'd tend to be the same in most people, but the Patronus can change. McG is not too wishy-washy, so she's probably just always had the same thing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]jrs1980
2007-07-24 11:58 pm UTC (link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronus_Charm#Known_Patronuses

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2007-07-25 12:13 am UTC (link)
Okay, if a Patronus is what makes you happy, and Aberforth's is a goat... I lol'd.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2007-07-25 12:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2007-07-25 12:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]soupspooks, 2007-07-25 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rennyn_alerothi, 2007-07-25 06:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keleri, 2007-07-25 02:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2007-07-26 12:25 am UTC

[info]chaimonkey
2007-07-25 01:40 am UTC (link)
Ooo, thank you!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]freezer
2007-07-25 12:04 am UTC (link)
In PoA, Sirius stated that he and James chose forms that could handle Lupin should he go wild. Peter's form was so he reach the Whomping Willow's kill switch easily. So, while not stating it outright, it suggests that you can choose your form, but you're probably stuck with it once you've got it down.

And Tonk's mutant patronus in HBP suggests that you can change your patronus's form (as Snape seems to have done), but you probably can't choose it's initial form.

HTH.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2007-07-25 12:20 am UTC (link)
Sirius stated that he and James chose forms that could handle Lupin should he go wild.

Did he say that they chose them, or that they had forms that were large enough to handle Lupin if he went wild?

It actually says in HBP that patronuses can change-- for example, if you fall in love, IIRC.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]freezer, 2007-07-25 01:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2007-07-26 10:31 am UTC

[info]seiberwing
2007-07-25 01:01 am UTC (link)
In PoA, Sirius stated that he and James chose forms that could handle Lupin should he go wild.

*coughcoughinterspeciessexcough*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]julesnoctambule, 2007-07-26 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2007-07-26 06:51 pm UTC

[info]nekoama
2007-07-25 12:30 am UTC (link)
Yeah, the patronuses are changeable, related to the happy thoughts probably. I'm not fully sure, but I think that very few people are actually able to be animagi, so the few that can have their forms be the same as their patronuses.
Frankly it would've just been easier to not have Tonks' patronus change and then we could assume the face to be true, but alas that bit's there and makes everything confusing.

(Reply to this)


[info]sticks
2007-07-25 12:46 am UTC (link)
Because Patronuses can change (definitely) and Animagi forms are... static until proven otherwise (since the Ministry keeps a register of Animagi and seems to assume that the forms are constant)? I think it's safe to say that there's not a 100% Patronus/Animagus connection.

That said, I don't think it's bad to assume that there's probably a strong correlation. We don't know for sure that James's Patronus was a stag, but why not? Running around with his buddies was probably a strong enough happy memory to link his happy-dar with stags and make his Patronus a stag. The fact that McGonagall's Patronus is the tabby cat probably reflects a great sense of satisfaction with her Transfiguration work (research or teaching) or maybe even with "holy shit, I'm an Animagus now! I'm awesome."

And I don't know about anyone else, but I keep thinking about the Power Rangers movie. "I'M A FROG."

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2007-07-25 04:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wonderfish, 2007-07-25 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bitca, 2007-07-25 02:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deconcentrate, 2007-07-26 05:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wonderfish, 2007-07-26 05:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deconcentrate, 2007-07-26 05:35 am UTC

[info]jrs1980
2007-07-25 12:54 am UTC (link)
Also, found this linked at wiki:
kelly_holland: When you turn into an Animagus, can you choose what animal you become? Or does this get "assigned" to you?
JK Rowling replies -> No, you can't choose. You become the animal that suits you best. Imagine the humiliation when you finally transform after years of study and find that you most closely resemble a warthog.
Not sure how canonical that is, though.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chaimonkey, 2007-07-25 01:45 am UTC
How I've always looked at it... - [info]eilisliana, 2007-07-25 03:39 am UTC
Re: How I've always looked at it... - [info]jrs1980, 2007-07-25 01:38 pm UTC
Re: How I've always looked at it... - [info]sarahkjrsten, 2007-07-25 06:36 pm UTC
Re: How I've always looked at it... - [info]eilan, 2007-07-26 08:22 am UTC

[info]rennyn_alerothi
2007-07-25 06:16 am UTC (link)
My Patronus would be Agent Smith. Or Falco.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2007-07-26 06:52 pm UTC

[info]vorpal_blade
2007-07-26 01:59 am UTC (link)
It's certainly plausible, since McGonagall's Animagus form and her Patronus are the same. I hope, though, that if it is the same, then people with rather small Animagus forms have Patronuses that multiply the small creature; a single beetle or a rat for Rita or Peter (unless we're talking a really BIG beetle or rat) would be kind of pathetic for protecting against dementors; I think they'd need at least a swarm of beetles or rats for these Patronuses to be effective.

(Reply to this)


 
   
Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map