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velvet_mace ([info]velvet_mace) wrote in [info]fandom_lounge,
@ 2007-12-13 20:01:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Female Fanlib?
Anyone hear of Organization for Transformative Works?

Apparently Naomi Novik is part of a group of people striving to make fanfic a legal and legitimate. Plus on Fanlib, they appear to be made up of women. Double plus, they don't plan on profiting from fanworks. And unlike Fanlib, instead of having the fanwriters foot the legal bills for the them, they plan on providing legal defense for fanwriters.

So any bets on if this will turn into tears and wails of "Don't ruin fandom for us!" or if fanwriters will actually embrace this new group?

EDIT: Well, we got one big vote of no-confidence already.


(Post a new comment)


[info]antimatterspork
2007-12-14 04:14 am UTC (link)
John Scalzi seems to think it's going to ruin fandom for us anyway.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]esclaramonde
2007-12-14 10:14 pm UTC (link)
Why am I still reading the comments? Too many people saying that fanfic is insulting and wrong!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]onaga
2007-12-14 04:28 am UTC (link)
It's "Novik," dude.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]velvet_mace
2007-12-14 04:31 am UTC (link)
*face/palm*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]airawyn
2007-12-14 05:08 am UTC (link)
otw_news

They are fanwriters. This particular group came out of discussions that followed the FanLib debacle.

(Reply to this)


[info]ravenscanary
2007-12-14 05:24 am UTC (link)
Perhaps this place has made me jaded, but this effort both elates and worries me. Mostly the latter.

(Reply to this)


[info]msilverstar
2007-12-14 05:26 am UTC (link)
I find the language they use almost unbearably academic and pretentious (Derridah ahoy!). But I think it's a good faith effort to support fandom, especially the parts about legal defense and archiving. Though Scalzi has some good points on the legal issues.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]rosehiptea
2007-12-14 06:26 am UTC (link)
I'm on their LJ but I don't always keep track of what's going on. Though pretty much: what you said.

They are a bunch of admirable people though... but I don't know what to think of all the legal issues.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2007-12-14 06:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2007-12-14 12:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_serpent, 2007-12-14 06:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2007-12-14 06:56 pm UTC

[info]cleolinda
2007-12-14 07:50 am UTC (link)
Yeah, I think Scalzi has a terrifying number of good points there. It helps that he's generally pro-fanfic, or at least live-and-let-live towards it, so his points actually make sense rather than sounding dismissive or alarmist (OH MY GOD THOSE KIDS TODAY AND THEIR "FANFIC").

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-14 08:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2007-12-14 08:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-14 10:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2007-12-14 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wrenlet, 2007-12-14 10:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-14 10:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]themadmermaid, 2007-12-14 10:53 pm UTC

[info]brown_betty
2007-12-14 06:03 am UTC (link)
It came out of fandom as a response to the first strikethrough (before all the beheadings) I believe, and I am not too sure what to expect from it, but most of the people on the board are fen I either like, know, or admire, or some combination of the three.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]white_serpent
2007-12-14 06:25 am UTC (link)
No, it was a response to Fanlib, as I recall.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ruuger
2007-12-14 10:07 am UTC (link)
I actually find it very interesting that you hadn't heard about it.

There was some criticism a while ago of the project that it was too much livejournal based, and that if the committee wants to speak for fandom, they need to reach out more because not all fans are on LJ. So if you - someone in the "meta" side of fandom at least through fandom wank - haven't heard about it until now, it doesn't bode well to the idea that they're representing the whole of fandom.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-14 04:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vzg, 2007-12-20 04:55 am UTC

[info]solle
2007-12-14 10:22 am UTC (link)
"Frankly, I'm against people who give vent to their loquacity by extraneous bombastic circumlocution."

(Reply to this)


[info]dejana
2007-12-14 12:39 pm UTC (link)
*reposting to add a comment*

There's been a fair amount of criticism from fandom already, but it seems to have been shuffled into a corner by the cheers. There's a whole section on criticism in the Fanhistory article.

... You know, I've had my own issues with OTW, but I think this is the first time I've realized what the real issue is here. OTW, by attempting to make fanfic a legitimate pursuit, is essentially aiming to bring fandom to the attention of the copyright holders. Hasn't that always been agreed upon to be a bad thing? Don't we, as Scalzi writes, continue to exist by flying under the radar? After reading his take on things, I'm starting to cross the line from being offended to being alarmed.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jar, 2007-12-14 01:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2007-12-14 01:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2007-12-14 07:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-15 12:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2007-12-15 01:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-15 02:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2007-12-15 02:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2007-12-15 02:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-15 04:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2007-12-15 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-15 06:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2007-12-15 05:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-15 06:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2007-12-16 04:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-16 12:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2007-12-16 04:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-16 05:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2007-12-16 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-16 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sidewinder, 2007-12-16 06:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-16 07:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2007-12-14 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jar, 2007-12-15 04:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wolfsamurai, 2007-12-15 07:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2007-12-15 08:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jar, 2007-12-15 08:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2007-12-15 10:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2007-12-16 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jar, 2007-12-17 01:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2007-12-18 01:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vzg, 2007-12-20 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]airawyn, 2007-12-15 09:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-15 12:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2007-12-15 01:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dejana, 2007-12-15 02:24 pm UTC
Link dump
[info]purplepopple
2007-12-14 12:46 pm UTC (link)
Dissent has been around since the start and has been on going for a bit.

http://snippy.ceejbot.com/wiki/show/start/2007/09/30/001
http://hector-rashbaum.livejournal.com/160177.html
http://community.livejournal.com/otw_news/9077.html in the comments
http://community.livejournal.com/otw_news/14338.html in the comments.
http://screwthedaisies.insanejournal.com/318156.html
http://antennapedia.livejournal.com/232152.html?format=light
http://partly-bouncy.livejournal.com/552017.html
http://metamiri.livejournal.com/5421.html
http://hector-rashbaum.insanejournal.com/201878.html
http://hector-rashbaum.insanejournal.com/219838.html
http://hector-rashbaum.livejournal.com/178381.html?nc=51
http://community.livejournal.com/fanthropology/344713.html?format=light
http://fairestcat.livejournal.com/406906.html?format=light
http://ignazwisdom.livejournal.com/150579.html in the comments before she locked down and hid all the comments


List of the some of complaints can be found at http://www.fanhistory.com/index.php/Organization_for_Transformative_Works

The original discussion did come out of FanLib. That came from Naomi at http://astolat.livejournal.com/151260.html?format=light

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Link dump - [info]dejana, 2007-12-14 01:12 pm UTC
Re: Link dump - [info]purplepopple, 2007-12-14 02:15 pm UTC
Another Link dump - [info]purplepopple, 2007-12-15 03:39 am UTC

[info]jar
2007-12-14 01:40 pm UTC (link)
I, for one, welcome our new fannish overlords!

Actually, I'm unsure about it but leaning heavily towards "yay!". I pretty much trust the people on the team (though I don't know any of them personally), and I think that there's enough brains behind the project to see that it doesn't crash and burn.

(Reply to this)


[info]ingrid
2007-12-14 01:53 pm UTC (link)
Scalzi's point of "what is a fan" and who'll start calling themselves "fans" once there is quasi-legal protection for loosely defined "transformative" works is terrifying indeed.

Oh, fandom. So many grandiose ideas, so little thought. Basements, ribbon typewriters and a battered copy machine are starting to sound sweet again.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2007-12-14 06:57 pm UTC

[info]shoiryu
2007-12-14 01:56 pm UTC (link)
Ugh. Decidedly not interested, and decidedly annoyed that yet AGAIN, indignant fellow fans are attempting to toe lines to get us all in trouble just so they can feel more "legitimate." Thanks, guys!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

cynicism and tl;dr ahoy! - [info]flightstothesea, 2007-12-14 08:45 pm UTC
Re: cynicism and tl;dr ahoy! - [info]notjo, 2007-12-15 01:52 am UTC
Re: cynicism and tl;dr ahoy! - [info]wolfsamurai, 2007-12-15 07:06 am UTC
Re: cynicism and tl;dr ahoy! - [info]notjo, 2007-12-15 10:09 am UTC
Re: cynicism and tl;dr ahoy! - [info]sepiamagpie, 2007-12-15 07:29 pm UTC
Re: cynicism and tl;dr ahoy! - [info]smashingstars, 2007-12-15 03:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]belafarinrod, 2007-12-14 09:42 pm UTC

[info]zannechaos
2007-12-14 03:47 pm UTC (link)
At first glance, it sounds like a great idea. But after reading the discussions and qualms and opposing points... I... hm. I think they have a good idea with good intentions, and that they're honestly trying to do good, but you know what road's paved with intentions like that, I'm sure. I can't shake the impression of "sounded like a good idea at the time" here.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2007-12-15 01:10 am UTC

[info]blue_penguin
2007-12-14 04:08 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I really don't think this is a good idea. I always thought that fandom was allowed so long as the authors and so forth could pretend it didn't exist, and messing like that seems like it's asking for trouble.

(As much of a thrill as it was constantly living in fear of having our sites/mailing lists shut down by lawyers back when I was in the Dragonriders of Pern fandom, I wouldn't want every fandom to be like that.)

(Reply to this)


[info]esclaramonde
2007-12-14 10:16 pm UTC (link)
Fanfic people don’t seem to get that, because at some level, they all know that they are playing in someone else’s world. So if someone takes their Voldemort/Potter slash and rewrites/transforms it to Voldemort/Potter/Granger - well, they have no right to complain - and they know that. You can’t really steal stolen property from a thief - they KNOW that they don’t own it.

Yeah, I suppose I've just imagined every plagiarism wank that I've seen ...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-14 10:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-14 10:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-14 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-14 11:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-15 12:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-15 12:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-15 12:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-15 12:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-15 12:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2007-12-15 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2007-12-15 10:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2007-12-15 07:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-15 08:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2007-12-15 08:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-15 04:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2007-12-15 08:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-16 02:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2007-12-14 10:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-14 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2007-12-15 12:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-15 12:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2007-12-14 10:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2007-12-14 11:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2007-12-14 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2007-12-15 01:22 pm UTC

[info]immlass
2007-12-14 10:39 pm UTC (link)
The guy in Scalzi's comments who keeps going on and on about the immorality of fanfic is such a typical type 12 pear-shaped internet blowhard. He knows morality, dammit, and the rest of you are DEFECTIVE for not getting it.

I used to enjoy taunting happy fun blowhards, but now they just tire me. They're so predictable.

(Reply to this)


[info]frequentmouse
2007-12-14 11:15 pm UTC (link)
*Wants Ed Bartlett to meet my sister. Just once.*

(Reply to this)


[info]haunted
2007-12-15 02:25 am UTC (link)
http://community.livejournal.com/otw_news/9256.html?thread=294184#t294184

Find out why, when the project was planned, when my wiki was linked to, why I wasn't personally invited by the people behind the project. Because seriously, you'd have to be pretty... well, isolated in fandom not to have run across Fan History Wiki and my other fan fiction history type work.


Oh man, I may never stop laughing. This stuff is fucking fantastic.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2007-12-15 02:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-15 02:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]haunted, 2007-12-15 02:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-15 02:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]haunted, 2007-12-15 02:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2007-12-15 03:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2007-12-15 04:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jar, 2007-12-15 04:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jar, 2007-12-15 04:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]airawyn, 2007-12-15 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frau_eva, 2007-12-16 12:22 am UTC

[info]ravenscanary
2007-12-15 03:46 am UTC (link)
They really just need to confess that their main interest in this thing is fandom in academia. As an "acafan" (Oh, Henry Jenkins, I love you but that word is crap.) myself, I can't criticize, and I do hope they succeed with the journal just so I can possibly get published in all my weirdness, but they are so digging themselves into a hole by making this bigger than the legal defense/academic journal stuffy nerd thing.

This does not bode well.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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