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	thoms 2008-02-13 04:05 am UTC (link)
	Having an Australian Shepherd (Okay, Australian Shepherd/Border Collie mix), I was really hoping Deuce would take it, but I liked that Beagle a lot. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	chaimonkey 2008-02-13 04:11 am UTC (link)
	I love Australian Shepherds, so I would've been very happy to see Deuce win. But that Beagle was such a charmer. I mean, he barked at the judge! (My brother has a mini-Australian Shepherd, and we've got a Beagle/German Shepherd mix, so I definitely sent my bro a text saying our dog beat his. Hee.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	batshitinsane 2008-02-13 04:10 am UTC (link)
	Yay for Uno!!! I was looking through the pictures on MSN yesterday, and the doggies were SO CUTE! sparkles (Also, laughing while I was reading through the comments. Apparently whether dog shows should be catergorise as Sports or Human Interest is a matter of SRS BIZ) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	chaimonkey 2008-02-13 04:14 am UTC (link)
	I love the Westminster Dog Show. The dogs are gorgeous... My dad and I nicknamed the Best In Show terrier candidate "Roomba", after the mini robot-vaccuum. Think how clean the floors in his house are with that cut! XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

	tehrin 2008-02-13 04:24 am UTC (link)
	SQUEE! shows off her beagle (Reply to this)

Tissue?

altoidsaddict
2008-02-13 04:27 am UTC (link)

I've been following the tremendous wank elsewhere over Uno even winning group, much less the big prize. I haven't joined in other than shouting at the TV when he won, but I must say I agree with them: his owners admit that Uno has absolutely no beagle-appropriate instincts, which means the only reason he wins is on looks and confirmation. So what, now beagles are the new circa-70s Irish Setter: dogs with all the use and intelligence bred out of them, but as long as they're pretty. I'm sure the breed won't suffer for having hunt suddenly become an irrelevancy, or anything.

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	Re: Tissue? hallidae 2008-02-13 04:42 am UTC (link)
	Until the Westminster actually requires a beagle to bring back a fox, a retriever to dive into a pond after a duck, or a border collie to run down sheep for marks, I'm not seeing where it's 'irrelevant' that a dog bred specifically for show is just pretty. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Tissue? sisterelwood 2008-02-13 04:44 am UTC (link)
	Until the Westminster actually requires a beagle to bring back a fox, a retriever to dive into a pond after a duck, or a border collie to run down sheep for marks You just succeeded in making me giggle a whole lot. Thank you. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Tissue? hallidae 2008-02-13 04:45 am UTC (link)
	Er, is that giggling at me or with me? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Tissue? sisterelwood 2008-02-13 04:46 am UTC (link)
	With you, of course. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Tissue?

altoidsaddict
2008-02-13 05:09 am UTC (link)

Dog shows aren't just about the pretty, though. They're also about furthering the breed in all relevant ways. Most of the dogs in the show perform in agility and/or behave according to their breed standard outside the ring. If I heard correctly, the Anatolian shepherd's owner had to sew his ear back on after it was torn in the pursuit of protecting his herd? The bull mastiff (or was it mastiff?) is also a working champion. The dogs are supposed to exemplify the breed in function as well as looks, but the latter is obviously easier to judge than the former in a ring. Judges do what they can to weed out dogs that do not possess instinct - look at how some judges have terriers face off - but obviously it is not always possible. When the function is seriously lacking and a group of breeders favors confirmation beyond its true worth, it does the breed no favors and has caused serious problems for other breeds in the past. (See: dogs with hip dysplasia; horses with HYPP; differences between Malamutes as a functional standard and Siberian Huskies as a functional standard.)

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Re: Tissue?

hallidae
2008-02-13 06:33 am UTC (link)

Well, I understand wanting to avoid health problems, puppy mills, etc. I just didn't understand why the hell it would matter that a dog that's bred primarily to be trotted around a ring in front of an audience wouldn't know how to chase a fox, because most owners who go through the effort of purebreeding for shows are so worried about scarring, etc. keeping it from doing well in show that it would never have to chase a fox/fetch a duck/so forth. I could be totally wrong, but from what I've seen in past shows, a working champion that actually does work that could get it seriously injured, and therefore kill its competing chances, is the exception, not the norm.

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Re: Tissue?

altoidsaddict
2008-02-13 05:22 pm UTC (link)

Granted; there's a big debate over whether the mere existence of these types of shows ruins dogs at all, always. There's certainly enough evidence out there to suggest that a breed's AKC acceptance can totally ruin the dog's function and introduces massive health problems within 50 years, which considering some of these breeds date back millenia is amazing. A dog doesn't necessarily have to go ratting or hunting or hardcore herding to prove its worth, but certainly many of them do and escape injury in the bargain. Agility and obedience trials are also used to gauge instinct in a non-dangerous way. I use my terrier's tenacity and fearlessness to guard the cat when I need to temporarily keep him in one place (if you know my cat, you know why terriers and ratters in particular are pretty much the only suitable fit for this task. Not every 15-lb. dog can stand up to a hybrid with a bad attitude). My Rottweiler was afraid of mice and puddles, but had a natural protective instinct over his territory and prevented a break-in. My golden retriever used her herding instincts to watch over me as a young child. In no case were they trained to develop these instincts; they just had them. I would love them just the same if they had none of these instincts, but there's no way I would breed them. (I don't anyway because they had other flaws.) Why develop one breed that has no advantages over another breed, and why promote an animal as the epitome of its breed when it lacks the reason why the breed exists in the first place? Better off adopting a cute mutt or a breed-rescue or non-show-quality animal, there are plenty looking for loving homes and they'll make fine pets. Just don't consciously introduce a lack of trait back into the breed.

If Uno wants to enter a "world's cutest dog" contest, I'll gladly vote for him because he is in fact the world's cutest dog, and the media will rightly eat him up with a spoon. Unfortunately for what he's supposed to be, I fear he is nothing more than cute and adorable and marketable.

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	Re: Tissue? tehrin 2008-02-13 06:33 pm UTC (link)
	You hate my dog. :( (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Tissue?

altoidsaddict
2008-02-13 07:20 pm UTC (link)

Awww, no. Dogs are precious, every single one. In fact, I only own animals physically or mentally flawed in some way and extremely unsuitable for any sort of breeding, and I adore them. It's just that breed associations look for the best of every standard that makes a breed because we're talking about intentional genetic manipulation of a species, not whether Scruffy is fun to play with. Apples to oranges, really.

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Re: Tissue?

white_serpent
2008-02-13 06:10 am UTC (link)

I'm not seeing where it's 'irrelevant' that a dog bred specifically for show is just pretty.

In this case, as long as the dog is healthy and good-natured, it probably doesn't much matter that it has no hunting instinct. Speaking more generally, breeding dogs for appearance has been at the cost of health or temperament. Other breeds (e.g., Chow Chow and bulldog) have serious health issues caused by breeding them for increasingly exaggerated features.

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	Re: Tissue? sisterelwood 2008-02-13 04:47 am UTC (link)
	Say it with me now, dog SHOW. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Tissue? evilsqueakers 2008-02-13 07:10 am UTC (link)
	Actually, I tend to agree with you. Considering he'll probably breed at some point, and his traits will be passed down the line. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Tissue? silrana 2008-02-13 12:15 pm UTC (link)
	I do too. I had a teacher who was a border collie breeder. At the time they weren't a registered breed, and he was dead set against them ever becoming one because in his opinion it ruined dogs. As he put it, "It doesn't matter to the shows if a dog can't retrieve its own behind as long as its tail is exactly the right length." (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Tissue? whimsy_chan 2008-02-13 12:54 pm UTC (link)
	But aren't there some rather prestigious shows for working dogs that require them to actually, y'know, work? I can't imagine that anyone who is serious about their working dog would allow their breed to get all mixed up with the people who breed strictly for show. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Tissue?

silrana
2008-02-13 02:18 pm UTC (link)

As was earlier mentioned, the Irish Setter is a prime counter to that. I don't know if things are any better now, but when I was growing up purebred Irish Setters were well known to be as stupid as a box of rocks because they had been aggressively bred for their looks rather than function. It didn't matter if you wanted a working setter or not, the pro breeders were all following the AKC guidelines which stressed looks over ability or intelligence.

Unfortunately, it's just a matter of time. Mr. Miller trained his border collies to do fantastic things, but down the line most border collie breeders are going to be more interested in selling registered purebreds to yuppies than with producing herding dogs.

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Re: Tissue?

brennalarose
2008-02-13 03:20 pm UTC (link)

Maybe it's just the breed, but I knew and was friends with a show-bred Cardigan Welsh Corgi, who was dangerously clever. Could herd people without them noticing, knew when he was at a Con and need to be in costume because, dammit, his public awaits and he knew how to sneak food right off your plate while you were watching. He was a WKC-perfect specimen of his breed, except for his teeth or something, which were a bit crooked.

I think the problem with breeding is that some traits pretty much require the dog to be dumb as toast. I think they breed Corgis to have a large enough, flat enough cranium to not be so stupid, they try to herd TV sheep.

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	Re: Tissue? silrana 2008-02-13 05:11 pm UTC (link)
	I'm hoping that border collies' natural intelligence will win out over the 'pretty' breeders. I adore the breed and would love to have one myself, but I know deep down if we got a dog, our neighbor's dogs would spend all their time barking through the fence at it. Heaven knows they bark at everything else that moves. Cats, birds, cars going by, airplanes... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Tissue? brennalarose 2008-02-13 08:18 pm UTC (link)
	One would hope. I've only ever met one stupid Border Collie and I think that was just because the daft beast liked the taste of tequila. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Tissue? evilsqueakers 2008-02-14 01:36 am UTC (link)
	And I think that's part of my problem, too. Because I think that it's important for them to look proper, but they also need to be able to function as they were bred to. And that last part is what kinda goes wonky it seems. Because you need to pass on all the traits that make the breed specific, not just the looks. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Tissue? vzg 2008-02-16 06:44 am UTC (link)
	I had a teacher who was a border collie breeder. I had to read that four times before I saw the word "breeder." I kept going, "WTF? What classes does she take?" (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sisterelwood 2008-02-13 04:43 am UTC (link)
	Awww! Yay doggies! (Reply to this)

altoidsaddict
2008-02-13 05:18 am UTC (link)

I do have a non wanky (although I don't think being concerned for the breed is wank per se, but w/e) tidbit: Patty Hearst's French bulldog apparently won best of opposite this year.

And now there's a debate over whether Glen of Imaal's grooming ventures much too close to Dandie Dinmont. The breed's been in AKC what, four years? And already they're arguing that the standard is becoming unacceptably altered.

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	pokecheck 2008-02-13 06:30 am UTC (link)
	Yaaay! Beagle! Eeee! (Reply to this)

	youngcurmudgeon 2008-02-13 06:37 am UTC (link)
	The slide show MSNBC has up is still highly adorable. (Is there a word for a cavalcade of sheepdogs besides "awwwwwwwwwwww!") (Reply to this)(Thread)

	moriath 2008-02-15 12:18 am UTC (link)
	Okay, I love the picture of the guy in the suit waiting for his dog to "relieve" itself on the fire hydrant. That's hilarious. And the pugs made me melt. My grandparents breed and show pugs so I always have to have a bit of affection for them (though black pugs totally pwn fawns), even if overall I'm not a dog fan. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	evilsqueakers 2008-02-13 07:09 am UTC (link)
	I watched some of that the other day, and then realized my favorites never win, so I just bowed out. I saw the Beagle when group and was so not impressed. (Reply to this)

	[reposted] delcj 2008-02-13 08:25 am UTC (link)
	PS - Is your handler single? it seems his handler Aaron Wilkerson is "joined with" Russella Bowen. i dunno whether that's dog handler talk for "taken" :) (Reply to this)

	laerwen 2008-02-13 09:16 am UTC (link)
	Awwwww, YAYE BEAGLE. He was so cute, lolz. (Reply to this)

	sgtgeorgecarter 2008-02-13 02:01 pm UTC (link)
	Man I'm tired of the poodles. Go Beagle. And seriously, if the beagle is healthy and good tempered, I don't care if he can't run down a fox. Show dogs aren't for that. Or he's dead smart and is thinking, "dude I'm gonna be so spoiled, screw that chasing shite. Let someone else get dirty." (Reply to this)

	annabelle_lee 2008-02-13 02:10 pm UTC (link)
	I'm glad for Uno and happy that Vicki didn't get another damn win in Best of Show, but I was rooting for the Akita. Gah, what a gorgeous dog. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	tofuknight 2008-02-13 04:02 pm UTC (link)
	YES! I mean, I was happy that Vicki didn't win again, but I personally hate beagles, so I wasn't happy he won. On the other hand, didn't they say that no beagle has ever won the Westminster? So that's pretty good. In other words, go Akitas! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	imp 2008-02-13 11:14 pm UTC (link)
	Aww, a pekingese didn't win... I always root for the peke! That Brussels Griffon is just darling though, and the pug's making me melt from cute. (I'm a sucker for the toy group, can you tell?) (Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2008-02-14 04:17 am UTC (link)
	Nope, he's married--I saw the wedding ring. (And believe me, I looked. ;)) --freyalorelei on lj (Reply to this)

	vzg 2008-02-16 06:46 am UTC (link)
	Damn it, I missed this. ... I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it as much as the Puppy Bowl anyway. (Reply to this)