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	iwanttobeasleep 2008-04-30 09:10 pm UTC (link)
	It wasn't bad. I didn't like it, myself, but my complaints are all preference, not quality. Although I do think the quality of the fifth season was a pretty significant drop from the others (and IIRC, it got a lot more preachy, which was especially annoying because pretty much everyone watching agreed with them!), which is why that's the only one I don't own. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	coffee_mug 2008-04-30 09:49 pm UTC (link)
	Ugh preachiness. D: (Reply to this)(Parent)

	o_o 2008-04-30 09:28 pm UTC (link)
	I think I stopped watching around the same point as you and I could never watch any part of season 5 without hating life. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	coffee_mug 2008-04-30 09:53 pm UTC (link)
	If I may ask, what specifically didn't you like about it? Feel free to go into details, I don't really care. I take it the latter half of season four was still okay? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

o_o
2008-05-01 12:34 am UTC (link)

I'm afraid I don't remember that much. The main reason I stopped watching was because of this theory I saw applied to 90210. When your show has turned to shit, it doesn't matter what new things you shovel onto it because they're still resting on shit and will turn shit even quicker than the original material did. QAF was kind of like that. By the start of season 4, I only stuck around for Ted who I shipped with Blake, and when they didn't get together, and Justin shaved his hair and pretended to be a skinhead, and Brian lost his job, and Emmett continued not having a decent plot, I was like, "fuck you guys, I'm going home. >:("

So really, it was all downhill for me from season 4 onwards, but I still stuck around for the little Ted/Blake there was.

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coffee_mug
2008-05-01 09:30 am UTC (link)

Yeah, it's been such a long while for me as well. I don't remember Ted/Blake but I did always want for Ted to be happy so I think I probably shipped it.

Pink Posse storyline was soooo bad. Overall my biggest gripes are always B/J storyline and some of the artificial problems the writers put between them.

But then I think about Michael/Ben and sort of want to see the whole thing to the end anyway...

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highlander_ii
2008-04-30 11:06 pm UTC (link)

It's been a while since I've seen either S4 or S5, but I do recall not particularly liking a lot of S4, and probably being rather indifferent about S5.

I'll admit, I wasn't huge into the fandom, as a matter of fact, I didn't even watch the show until after it was over. (Part of that is b/c I didn't have Showtime.) There were irritating things about the end - there always are - but I don't recall it being an atrocity of television. Then again, I wasn't all that invested in who did whom or what anyway. I just watched for the entertainment value. ;)

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	coffee_mug 2008-05-01 09:32 am UTC (link)
	I wasn't into the fandom, either - in fact I've not read a single fanfic for it. I mainly discussed with two friends who also really loved it. I was into the characters but I guess not enough to keep watching when I had to download (they stopped showing it on TV here after S3). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	highlander_ii 2008-05-01 11:35 pm UTC (link)
	I rented the DVDs through Netflix is how I got to see 'em all. I liked S1 and S2 and parts of S3, S4 I wasn't impressed with and I really don't remember much about S5, except that everything seemed to be starting to 'break apart' - and it did feel like they were trying to end the show. But that's about all I remember. (Reply to this)(Parent)

arjumand
2008-05-03 10:21 pm UTC (link)

Oh, BOY. This, this is my hot button issue, the one where I go ballistic and rant for a long time about artistically bereft showrunners desperately trying to twist and torture the storyline back under their control, in a very tl;dr manner. But, that's just in my head, so I will sum up!

Basically, Season 4 (yes, one has to go back there!) started off well, and by well I mean Brian's cancer storyline. Cowlip had kept their promise of never giving Brian a 'gay disease', this type of illness fitted his age-group and gender, and he tackled it with the shock and horror of someone who had, up til then, worshipped his body, only to find it betraying him in the most underhanded and secretive manner. The only thing which would have shocked him more would have been a heart attack, but that wouldn't have fit in with his lifestyle (I mean the healthy food and much exercise), so testicular cancer it was.
The other storylines were ok, but not up to much - Cowlip's misogyny ever present in the lesbian story, but by that time it was clear that neither Cowen nor Lipman knew how to write believable women so I just rolled my eyes and focussed on other things.

However, the real disaster came at the end of season 4, when some genius decided that 1) a bicycle ride was a storyline (no, it isn't), 2)that Brian Kinney (BRIAN KINNEY) would ever go on such a thing for charity (no, he wouldn't; Brian's idea of charity is writing a cheque). Again, the other characters were not so bad, although by that time Melanie's pregnancy had already lasted 5463726 weeks, but hey, who's counting.

The main problem, which started some indefinable time in the past, was that Cowlip had always considered Michael to be their protagonist and viewpoint character, and meant his friendship with Brian to be the main relationship in the series, as it had been in the British version with Vince and Stuart. But that's not what happened in QAF US, and as the years went by, Cowlip, to their horror, saw the Brian/Justin relationship taking precedence, with Michael/Ben following a close second. At the same time, the fans they had (predominantly straight women) were not the fans they wanted (gay men) and they were extremely pissed off at what they saw as both the lack of support from the gay community, as well as the so-called hijacking of their series by women who wanted B/J and M/Ben. I had to snigger when I saw the result of the AfterElton site's hottest 25 openly gay tv characters: who was the winner: Brian Kinney! To see how some of the gay community reacted to QAF US, just read the almost grudging acceptance of this result, both in the write-up and in the video blog.

So Cowlip was pissed off, and seemed to decide that in season 5 they would get rid of the biggest thorn in their side, the B/J relationship, concentrate more on gay issues (rather than have characters living their lives who just happened to be gay), and seemingly contradict all of their previously stated intentions.
Brian would never be punished for being sexual - except in season 5 he contracts syphilis (why not gout or the pox, if we're going there?). I can't even go into all the ridiculous things which happened in season 5, as I've tried to block them out - ok, some: a bomb explodes in Babylon, antigay, the police don't care, etc. Wait, what? The police don't care? After 9/11, a bomb, and the FBI or Homeland Security isn't over that like a swarm of ants at a picnic? Whatever. Melanie and Lindsay emigrate to Canada taking Brian's son and the baby with them - but it's not running away, oh no. The worst lawyer in the world and the out-of work art teacher will surely be welcomed with open arms to the country which rejected Sharon Gless, well known actress who had actually worked there for the last 5 years. I must STOP! (But I will continue in another post!)

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Season 5: Part 2: The Rantening

arjumand
2008-05-03 10:30 pm UTC (link)

The ending: ok. So Michael gives this speech, which sounds, AGAIN, like another dig at all those GLAAD people who wouldn't give Cowlip the time of day - and it is the cheesiest speech ever committed to celluloid - I expected Al Pacino to jump up from behind a table and yell "Was this cornball enough for you?" Yes, Al. It truly was.

Brian's ending? Remember 5 years ago, when Cowlip's motto was 'Boys to Men', that they would grow and learn from their experiences? Well, Brian is dancing at Babylon, as he was in the first episode, but now he is alone. His lover, friend, son: they're all gone. He is the static one, the one who hasn't changed and has become the thing he decried, all those years: pathetic.

I have always had this as my motto: 'Trust the tale, and not the teller.' The author's intentions have never been important for me, as opposed to what I read/saw on a screen. Cowlip saw this happening in their audience - their story taking on a life of its own, and they had to wrest back control. Yes, there were actor conflicts in the background, but those have never interested me that much (except when you use your power as show runner to make an actor say the line: "Simon is a cunt", where 'Simon' is the name of the actor's boyfriend in real life.)
Basically Season 5 was just bereft in every way: plot, character, emotional resonance, the lot. It had plot twists calculated to bait and switch the audience and browbeat them with the all-important MESSAGE (e.g. WOMEN want MARRIAGE. All women. But it's not FOR BRIAN. So we will tease you poor stupid romantic women with it and then snatch it away. Because you don't know what's good for you).
Compare Michael's terrible speech wtih Emmett's to Ted re. whether God wanted him to be gay: the latter makes me cry, while the former just makes me cringe with embarrassment. And I haven't even mentioned the terrible 'breaking the fourth wall' moments, of which there are many, and varied.

Season 5 did more than disappoint me: it embarrassed me. It is the one season of QAF which I don't own on dvd, and which I never will.
So. I have ranted, at length. Oh dear. Sorry! Can I blame my evil hand? Stop it, evil hand. I love Brian Kinney, Michael Novotny, Justin Taylor, and I always will. But Cowlip (spits)- never again.

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	Re: Season 5: Part 2: The Rantening arjumand 2008-05-03 10:45 pm UTC (link)
	with Emmett's to Ted I meant, of course, Ted's speech to Emmett - sorry! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Season 5: Part 2: The Rantening coffee_mug 2008-05-03 11:13 pm UTC (link)
	Oooh don't apologize.. As somebody who was quite net-ignorant back when watching the show and not involved with the fandom at all, it's really interesting to hear all that background Cowlip type of stuff. And yep, sure sounds like quite the trainwreck. :/ It's always sad when shows end on a bad note like that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Season 5: Part 2: The Rantening

arjumand
2008-05-04 10:49 am UTC (link)

It's really sad, especially as the team seemed to be so close and committed to what they were doing initailly.

The Cowlip things were always in the background, never overt, and it was only when the show was over that they started being said openly - never by the actors, of course, although their dissatisfaction could be seen by the dearth of interviews and commentaries in the last season. In fact, Season 5 was released without any extras pertaining to the show at first, which struck me as incredible arrogance, especially for a cable show with much less episodes than a network show, and a dvd box-set which was more expensive than most.

I, too, found it really sad. I am one of those freaks who loved Seasons 6 and 7 of Buffy just as much as the preceding 5. I realised that they had their problem storylines (magic crack, anyone?), but which season didn't have clunkers? The difference is that when Joss, control freak that he is, realised that his transgressive couple (Spike/Buffy) had much more heat and sizzle than his canon couple (Buffy/Riley), he quasi-accepted it and took the relationship as far as he felt he could. Even though he was guilty of the horribly condescending statement that he was giving fans what they "needed", not what they wanted, he still didn't derail his entire show to do this.

What always stunned me is that Cowlip had a true power couple on their hands, a couple made up of two gay men who had more chemistry and charisma than a lot of the lukewarm hetero couples put together. And they just threw it away. Some people are inclined to blame Randy Harrison, who never had a good word to say about the B/J relationship: but why should the producers care what the actors say? Just do your job, and take the money is my motto. But maybe they were insulted that an out gay man disliked their ideas, I don't know. I myself never cared: like I said, 'Trust the tale', and if I want to be more blunt I quote Hitchcock about actors.
Anyway, one day I must rewatch the first three seasons, which I loved. Maybe Season 3 should have been the finale, but I sincerely believe that with better writers/showrunners seasons 4 and 5 could have finished the series off in a superior way.
Thanks for reading!

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Re: Season 5: Part 2: The Rantening

coffee_mug
2008-05-04 12:00 pm UTC (link)

I don't really follow all that many drama shows (mostly a fan of comedy shows - but of course those can also lose their edge come final season) but yeah, it's definitely sad.

See, I always thought Cowlip was pro B/J and the idea was just to throw things in their way so that the couple wouldn't become boring. Everybody I knew who watched the show was into B/J. (It wasn't until I read f_w reports on QAF fandom that I found out some people actually shipped B/M!) Also, it's a pretty new idea to me that canon has a pairing fans support but makers emphatically do not.. I guess I've been hanging out in all the wrong/the right fandoms, depending on one's viewpoint. :)

I can sort of see why people would object to the dysfunctional couple of B/J but honestly, if you're a writer than you should be able to fix that instead of being like, "Oh I hate this pairing, we should kill it dead!".

Maybe Finnish TV stopped showing at Season 3, not because of rights issues (and why they couldn't buy more rights, I'll never know, the show seemed to have a lot of viewers despite ridiculously late time slot), but because they saw how crappy seasons 4 & 5 would become.. :P

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