(Post a new comment)

	Mod Post: kadath 2008-08-21 04:32 pm UTC (link)
	Please edit this post to make it comprehensible to someone not in the fandom in question. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Mod Post: the__ivorytower 2008-08-21 04:48 pm UTC (link)
	Sorry, is that better? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Mod Post: kadath 2008-08-21 04:49 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, thank you. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	keleri 2008-08-21 06:53 pm UTC (link)
	I'm vaguely disappointed actually. :/ Pretty good, but it didn't quite have the same epic feel that the previous ones managed. And I'm not sure why-- ARTHAS!! FROST WYRM!! RAVENING LEGIONS OF UNDEAD!! Possibly my heart has dried up to an apple core of cynicism because I WANT WOTLK TO BE OUT RIGHT NOW NOW NOW NAAAAAAOOOOOOWWWWWUH. flail (Reply to this)(Thread)

	the__ivorytower 2008-08-21 08:01 pm UTC (link)
	I wasn't sure where they were going with it originally. Now all I can say is 'oooooooh myyyyyyy goooooood'. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	keleri 2008-08-21 09:11 pm UTC (link)
	I feel better about it after I watched it again in the high-rez version. Also, how do they keep getting Tony Jay to do voiceovers from beyond the grave? xD (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kylenne 2008-08-21 07:22 pm UTC (link)
	Too bad it will be completely worthless to anyone who isn't already at end game. My highest toon is 45 and I have no reason to buy this. You know what would be cool? MMORPG companies actually making beginning and middle content as compelling as the uber high level shit, instead of the boring ass tedious grindfests 99% of them are. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	the__ivorytower 2008-08-21 08:00 pm UTC (link)
	Ten more levels, and you could play a Death Knight? e.e; I have a bunch of high level characters, so it means a bit more to me. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kylenne
2008-08-21 08:50 pm UTC (link)

10 more levels of slogging through more tedious BS to get a class geared toward endgame that everyone and their cousin is going to be playing doesn't really excite me. Granted, they can't do this with every expansion (the lore just ain't there), but TBC added two new races, and had some really fun stuff for lowbies in addition to adding Kara and all that jazz for the big kids. I think I'm spoiled because that 45 toon (my first one) is a Draenei mage so my first real experience with the game was in what I consider to be the best starting area for Alliance. It's telling that the minute my two alts got done with Teldrassil I hightailed it to Bloodmyst because the questing is just so much more fun there. It's sad but I've yet to see a quest end as awesome as the Draenei chain does, with all the NPCs lauding you as a hero. The lowbie instances are stale, too--the only fun ones I've run so far are Scarlet Monastery and Zul'Farrak (Gahr'zilla FTW!).

I just think a game that everyone is paying a monthly fee for (and not just 70s) should be fun for levels 1-70. Just today, I've had a bunch of people telling me "be patient, it's worth it because it's fun when you get to Outland!" so I'm feeling kinda bitchy about the whole thing right now. The only reason I haven't quit outright is because my BF and a bunch of my friends are on there.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

undomielregina
2008-08-21 11:10 pm UTC (link)

See, I love Deadmines (dude, it's the pirates, robots and ninjas instance, all we're missing is monkeys), and I really like a few of the zones -- I find that there's a good feel to a few of the upper level Azeroth zones, and a few of the lower level ones, but a lot of the space in between got left out. Stranglethorn, for example, is a screaming shithole. But in the original lowbie zones, the devs clearly spent all their time on the Night Elves and Undead -- they have cool chains and nifty shit, and if you focus on their areas, you can get into the 30's with decent quests that have good flavor. Part of the problem is that Blizzard learned a lot about how the game worked, and how to design quests, in the period leading up to TBC, that really helped the design of the lowbie zones for Draenei and Blood Elves.

I think you'll like Un'Goro, tho. The whole thing is themed off of old skool video games -- including the massive Linken chain that gives you a boomerang trinket :D. That and Plaguelands really help the flavor once you hit your 50's.

Ultimately, legend has it that the best developers quit almost immediately when work on WoW started -- and that all the best quests are their legacy. I suspect that that's true to an extent, but I don't believe, as some claim, that their hand is only visible in the starting zones. The Tirion Fordring chain in the Eastern Plaguelands, for example, is both still epic, and crucial to the lore for the upcoming xpac, and I suspect that stuff like that is also an example of greatness.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	twoiskewl 2008-08-22 04:40 am UTC (link)
	Do people really say that? I leveled up to 63 soloing in Eastern Plaguelands just because I didn't have a lot of fun in Outlands the first time I went though. But then, I'm a lore geek. :( Also Blizz HAS added lower level content, though granted not as much. The Dustwallow remake was amazing, though, especially for just having been a patch -- whole different zone, almost. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	carbucketty 2008-08-21 08:27 pm UTC (link)
	I always thought Azeroth was cool. :( Would would make sense(!!) is if Northrend started around 60-ish. That way people picking up the game now, or who aren't near level cap like you don't have to go through all the 'wtf Burning Legion in SPAAAAAAAAACE' bs before going to fight teh Lich King. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lyssa 2008-08-21 08:33 pm UTC (link)
	After doing the grind over six times, I really hate Azeroth and how slow leveling feels. It's all crappy grindy with weird gaps in leveling quest areas. That and it's pretty much abandoned so getting an instance group is nigh impossible. Outlands were so much better put together for that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

carbucketty
2008-08-21 08:43 pm UTC (link)

The leveling change sped a lot of it up, imo. I did one character after it was changed and was like 'whee!'. But I always did like Azeroth better in terms of feel. Dragons and dwarves and bugs, oh my! It was the squee heard cross the world when I first found out there be dragons in LK.

I think I would have liked it more if BC had the Burning Legion coming to Azeroth, but I can't see where they would have put them and kept replayability (maybe Azshara lol?) from 1-60.

I agree Outlands were better for groups BUT! I hope they change the instance design a little. The hubs were a neat idea but after a while they look so alike it gets boring.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

lyssa
2008-08-21 09:35 pm UTC (link)

Even after the leveling speed change, it still feels like pulling teeth to me starting in the 40s (I've done at least two more 70s after the change, and one until 50). If I go back, I'd like to play a Hordeside priest... but the only one I have is level 50. Part of what's swaying me away from is going through those levels yet again. I suppose on my end it's both over-exposure and a personal not being impressed with the design and look of Azeroth after the first time I did it. I kinda feel like I've done it all... and it wasn't that great in the end. I also got kinda peeved at the way Blizz just flat abandoned Azeroth post-BC.

The main thing keeping changes to Azeroth like what you suggest is how to keep those areas away from people who don't have the expansion. Easier to just make it a new area, unfortunately.

In all honesty, I hope they keep instances short and clean like in Outlands. I don't care where they are, but going through Scholo and Strat for my paladin quest was immensely frustrating, unlike the Outlands instances that felt like smooth cake. The places feel helter skelter and nigh impossible to tank properly. Didn't help I couldn't get proper groups, but I don't want to spend hours in a messily designed instance. Part of this was ignorance of those instances in the proper endgame context, but I also know how long full clears likely took D:

(Reply to this)(Parent)

kylenne
2008-08-21 09:02 pm UTC (link)

A-frickin-men. Right now I'm slogging through Tanaris (after having slogged through Desolace and Badlands, two more ugly as sin, boring areas), and oh Christ is it horrible. Getting knocked off my mount every two paces when quests are all over the dang map is barrels of fun, let me tell you.

My main is a frost specced mage, and the only PUG I've ever actually managed to find was for Razorfen Kraul. Despite scoring some Death Speaker Robes, it made me never want to PUG again. The only way you will ever see the inside of an Azeroth instance in my experience is if you've got a 70 running you through it, or you're in a guild with people who have alts your level.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

lyssa
2008-08-21 09:42 pm UTC (link)

The days until you get your epic mount kinda suck for that. Those levels, while important for learning your class (especially in those instance runs that are impossible to find), just get really annoying after awhile. I'm always torn with wanting an option to skip them

Ouch, yeah, PUGs blow as a DPS, unfortunately. I've been blessed to duo with someone pretty much exclusively, and we end up splitting the tank and healer between us. Makes most instances a joke even if the DPS are slow and dumb as mud. Assuming we could find groups, anyway. It's sad when you spam that you just need DPS and the group still refuses to come together.

But, yeah, I totally hear you in that the content just isn't that interesting until the endgame areas. As much as fun as the game was the first time I did the 1-60 grind, it never compared to what we all thought would be teh awesome endgame. And, oh god, Reputation Grinds. Be glad you don't have to do those yet. I also don't want to talk about the hot mess that is the arena system.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	rekall 2008-08-22 06:53 am UTC (link)
	Leveling gets a lot better once you get into the high 40s/50s. The 40-50 zones kinda blow and once I hit lv48, I typically run off to Felwood or Un'Goro. Avoid Azshara, it brings nothing but tears. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	twoiskewl 2008-08-22 04:41 am UTC (link)
	Hahah that's the best description of Outland ever. (Reply to this)(Parent)

lyssa
2008-08-21 08:30 pm UTC (link)

Warhammer isn't too bad for that from what I've experienced. Leveling is pretty quick, sorta, at least it never felt very grindy for the levels I've played around with. And there are a lot of ways to do it depending on your fancy, with none of it really based on flat kill grinding. (Hurray for the lifted NDA)

I'm still undecided between Warhammer (a new game with flaws) or another WoW expansion (an older game with misguided devs and crappy class balancing, but the game my friends play).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

lyssa
2008-08-21 08:37 pm UTC (link)

Also Warhammer leveling can be pretty epic starting early from the variety of stuff you can do, from public quests (multi-stage events that anyone in the area can do, which lead to rewards) to open world battles starting at level 6 or so to tons of battlegrounds to just questing (though the quests aren't that interesting). I can't say how it'd feel to a newer MMO player though.

I've been having a blast in the beta, but I'm still undecided. There are some things I'm worried about, like population control (keeping the two sides about even) and crafting skills (not too many yet or too important either). It was a breath of fresh air after the WoW endgame crapfest that is arenas and whining raiders.

But, I'm really bitter in regards to WoW.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	iwanttobeasleep 2008-08-21 09:38 pm UTC (link)
	Level level level! I'm taking my two alts from that to Outland, so I can enjoy the leveling bump. PS. Tour Guide! It's a great leveling guide that walks you through quests so you're never going "Where next?" And it interfaces beautifully with TomTom and Lightheaded, so quests become ridiculously easy. (Reply to this)(Parent)

silrana
2008-08-22 01:19 pm UTC (link)

I give a thumbs up to City of Heroes/Villains for that. It really breaks the mold for 'rush to the end for the good stuff'. In fact, it's always funny to read the forum for "I power leveled to 50, now what do I do?" "All the stuff you skipped over." threads.

Seriously. You start out in the tutorial beating up punks in the street or breaking out of prison, depending on which side you play. I play heroside most of the time, and by the time you hit level 5 you have fought, depending on your character's origin type, robots, neo-Nazis, Frankenstein's monster type zombies, and an assortment of super-powered gangs.

There is a lot of great content spread through the entire game. One of the most fun things you can do is level a character solo so you can take the time to read all the clues and story arc text. My personal favorite part of the game is Croatoa, which is a Celtic themed area with Fir Bolg and Tuatha running around, and you hit that around level 30.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	cmdr_zoom 2008-08-23 05:23 pm UTC (link)
	What they said. I love it BECAUSE it is, in a lot of ways, Not Like The Others. (Alas for those who enjoy balanced PvP, though.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	worstangel 2008-08-21 07:39 pm UTC (link)
	screams flails Ohmigod that frost wyrm, I MUST HAVE IT. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	danceswithelvis 2008-08-21 07:54 pm UTC (link)
	So do I. I keep wanting to fight for the bad guys instead of against them. It'd be more fun and plus I wouldn't have to listen to wanna be hc raiders whine about content being hard. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	darkschneider 2008-08-21 08:32 pm UTC (link)
	...I really want to draw fanart of King Terenas Menathil appearing before Arthas in the clouds, ala the Lion King/Kimba the White Lion because really, that's the kind of vibe that I'm getting from this. It does not help that the king says "remember" in almost the same tone of voice. I think something's wrong with my brain. (Reply to this)

	carbucketty 2008-08-21 08:37 pm UTC (link)
	amagad yay! Everyone in my guild is so caught up over QQ CLASS BALANCE QQ RAID MAKEUP QQ DEATH KNIGHT and here I sit wishing they would all stfu because it's Arthas and Malygos and POLAR BEARS, bitches! (Reply to this)

	iwanttobeasleep 2008-08-21 09:53 pm UTC (link)
	This just makes me all the more excited for the Warcraft movie. If they can make it with that sense of drama and that pretty imagery? Mmmm. Also: ILU BLIZZARD, and it's spoilerific but this bit of plot is my favorite. And since it ties in, definitely (re)watch the Warcraft III cutscene of Arthas killing his father. I keep forgetting how epic that was, too. (Reply to this)(Thread)

the__ivorytower
2008-08-21 09:59 pm UTC (link)

The problem is, it's live action. I know Blizz would never do it, but I would watch a two and a half dissertation on the consistency of the sand in Tanaris if everyone looked as good as they do in their cinematics. Because it's live action, I'm kind of reserving judgment. Everyone's been whining about how it'll be about the Alliance anyway, and it left a bad taste in my mouth (I swear to god, I'm the only one who remembers the orcs are capable of genocide, but apparently the humans aren't allowed to be mad about that. Just the orcs are allowed to be mad, about the camps.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Why can't we just have the game already? D: iwanttobeasleep 2008-08-21 10:02 pm UTC (link)
	Shoot, I forgot about that. Stupid real humans. . . From what I've heard about the direction the Horde is going in in Wrath, Blizzard hasn't forgotten about their, um, capabilities. Which makes me all giddy. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Why can't we just have the game already? D:

the__ivorytower
2008-08-21 10:05 pm UTC (link)

I'm glad Garrosh has ACTUALLY gotten off his brown, emo arse and done something. His daddy would be proud of him (and there are still some gods left to kill, kiddo. See if you can one-up your father, k?)

I hear about Sylvanas in Northrend with her new plague (and her city named after a bunch of traitorous nuts, wtf? New Agamand, seriously?) and I feel very uneasy. Sayge was right, the Forsaken are up to something.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Why can't we just have the game already? D: swordmage 2008-08-21 10:38 pm UTC (link)
	My two 70s are both alliance (fire mage and resto druid, if anyone cares). some of the new stuff almost makes me wish I had a 70 Horde by the time it comes out... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Why can't we just have the game already? D: iwanttobeasleep 2008-08-21 10:42 pm UTC (link)
	I just leveled an alliance Shaman purely for that reason. Only to 58, but I'm looking forward to grouping with the death knights. It's actually pretty fun to go through and play Azeroth again but from the opposite side--plus, after endless Horde battlegrounds it's suddenly very weird to be playing from the ~~losing~~ other side. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Why can't we just have the game already? D: swordmage 2008-08-21 10:43 pm UTC (link)
	I've heard tell, at least in my battlegroup (Vindication), that Horde whines just as much as we do. One day - I will completely lose it in something - the resulting several day ban will be completely worth it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Why can't we just have the game already? D: iwanttobeasleep 2008-08-21 10:54 pm UTC (link)
	In my alliance experience they were nearly completely silent. Although my alliance BG experience has involved a lot of "Quick win the BG before it shuts down because there's only four horde!" Horde are whiners, though. Lots of rage quits with them. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Why can't we just have the game already? D:

swordmage
2008-08-21 11:01 pm UTC (link)

Alliance constantly complains about how they never win anything (except AV). There's usually some griping about how idiotic everyone is to just get it over with. On a bad day, there's usually a bit of "just uninstall WoW you noob."

I maintain the only reason we *win* AV is because you can play it as every man for himself and win. The others need at least some teamwork.

A common statement in my guild if someone wins, say, WSG or AB, is "cap or it didn't happen".

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Why can't we just have the game already? D: iwanttobeasleep 2008-08-23 06:28 am UTC (link)
	AV is also the most PvE of all. It doesn't really require people to stand around doing nothing for defense, although that helps. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	swordmage 2008-08-21 10:36 pm UTC (link)
	2 70s, neither of which do much end-game raiding. And I'm still disgustingly excited for this. Wyrm!!! squeals (Reply to this)(Thread)

	the__ivorytower 2008-08-21 10:56 pm UTC (link)
	You do know they're making it so all the end-game raids will be 10-manable, right? Most guilds, even casual ones, will be able to fill one. Also, I never play the expansions for the end-game content. I play for the new zones and new leveling (despite how people whine). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	swordmage 2008-08-21 11:02 pm UTC (link)
	Nice - I could quite happily live with that. I enjoy 10-mans muchly. (Reply to this)(Parent)