Log In

Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Developer Area

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area



A pipe? No! ([info]also_not_a_pipe) wrote in [info]fandom_lounge,
@ 2009-02-09 16:10:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Two questions regarding authors
1)Every so often when it gets slow and I run out of sites that are probably okay to be looking at on desk, I remember that I keep meaning to start reading the Dresden Files. For some reason this branch can't keep Storm Front in. Whenever I check, there's like six holds on it. Meanwhile the second, fourth, and eighth books in the series are right there on the shelf ten yards away. Does it matter terribly much in which order I read them?

2) I just reread Dave Duncan's Great Game trilogy after giving up on it as a teenager. It was a decent read, but also contained a whole lot of OH JOHN RINGO NO-style treatment of women and minorities. I'm looking at an old Library Journal that has a review of a novel of his about alchemists in an alternate Renaissance Venice. They say it's pretty good and I have a secret weakness for fantasy Venice. On the other hand, I'll pass if it's full of the same creepy "Hooray white people! British colonial-style oppression of native peoples is awesome!" and "Rape bad! But interesting! But bad!" moments that those were. Anybody read much Duncan? Does he commonly throw those sort of icky scenes and attitudes into his stories?


(Post a new comment)


[info]beccastareyes
2009-02-09 10:23 pm UTC (link)
IIRC, the first two Dresden Files novels are pretty stand-alone, but the third opens up a lot more threads in a continuing plot. I'd definitely stay in order for books 3 and up. I don't recall how much the second relies on knowing who is who from the first book, though.

(Reply to this)


[info]waitwut
2009-02-09 10:23 pm UTC (link)
I think that reading them in order is helpful but, as it's been awhile since I've read them, I can't say for sure if it's a MUST. There is a bit of an over-arching plot from the books. But I think maybe reading 2 before 1 wouldn't be terrible.

I think four and eight out of order could be a bit more boggling.

However, when the show was on Sci-Fi, it was aired out of order, which might have confused me, further!

(Reply to this)


[info]janegraddell
2009-02-09 10:45 pm UTC (link)
It's been so long since I read any Dave Duncan that I don't remember many specifics other than that the Great Game left me feeling yucky when none of his other books did. For what that's worth.

(Reply to this)


[info]meril
2009-02-09 10:53 pm UTC (link)
I've read the first two books in Duncan's alchemist series. No colonialism, but the main characters may be on anachronistically good terms with Jews and poor people, and the protagonist is having an affair of the nonpaid variety with a prostitute. Not so much "hurray white people" as "wow, these nobles are really really really corrupt."

(Reply to this)


[info]m_butterfly
2009-02-09 11:06 pm UTC (link)
I honestly cannot stand Storm Front anymore--he's one of those authors who has improved tremendously with time, to the detriment of his earlier novels--so would actually recommend starting with Fool Moon. Read a summary of the first one online (Wikipedia's got an insanely thorough section on the books) if you're feeling particularly out of depth, but the series is actually really good at doing quick catch-ups.

The fourth book also isn't an impossible place to start if the second doesn't grab you; there's a fairly large quality jump.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]panthea
2009-02-09 11:29 pm UTC (link)
Seconded. Storm Front is very obviously a first novel, and it's unbearably clunky in parts; I know at least one person who I still think would enjoy the later books, but she read SF first and got completely turned off the series as a whole.

That said, I did start with SF and my only reaction was "omg more now." But I'd be leery now of using it to pimp someone else into the series.

If you want to skip a few, I'd personally start no later than the third book, Grave Peril; it introduces Michael, who ends up being a major character, and the Nevernever and all the different vampire groups, and the overarching plot of the rest of the series (thus far) pretty much starts off here.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]priscellie, 2009-02-10 12:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]_goblin_, 2009-02-10 02:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-10 03:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 05:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-10 06:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dark_puck, 2009-02-10 04:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lil_miss_stfu, 2009-02-10 04:00 am UTC

[info]cinnamonical
2009-02-11 03:33 am UTC (link)
Like I mentioned in another comment, I started with book 7 and then jumped around the later books before finally getting around to the first four or so. I got through Storm Front okay, but had THE hardest time getting through Fool Moon. Not sure why.

But yeah, Butcher improves tremendously in later books.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dawnswalker
2009-02-09 11:08 pm UTC (link)
I've only read the first two Dresden Files books, but at that point, they were pretty stand-alone (the main character does mention things that supposedly happen previously, but unless later books in the series jump around in the timeline, I think they're just meant to be "flavour" references).

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]m_butterfly
2009-02-09 11:20 pm UTC (link)
Later books in the series get progressively less stand-alone, so unless you're really good at picking up on things fast, I wouldn't recommend dropping in any later than book 4, Summer Knight.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]scifantasy
2009-02-09 11:31 pm UTC (link)
Adding my voice to the chorus...yeah, I'd read them in order.

(Reply to this)


[info]notjo
2009-02-09 11:56 pm UTC (link)
Duncan broke my heart like you would not believe. I mean, his series "Man of his Word" is good enough, I suppose (Dave Duncan's skeevy race issues, let me show you them), but the follow-up novel is full of random homophobia, brutal rapes of main characters, and the female lead that had been so strong and awesome in the first series became weak and foolish and unable to properly function without her husband. It broke my heart like nothing ever written has.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]_goblin_
2009-02-10 04:18 am UTC (link)
This. Such a letdown.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lyrangalia
2009-02-10 12:09 am UTC (link)
You can definitely start with 2 or 3 with no problem. Up until 3 they are very standalone. after 3, it'd be very hard to just drop in in the middle.

I read Fool Moon first, then went back for Storm Front and then zoomed through Grave Peril up to White Night. Can't wait for Small Favor to come out in paperback.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]lyssa
2009-02-10 02:32 am UTC (link)
I'm already getting excited for the new hardcover in April. Dresden Files has risen to the level of ASoIaF for me: I'll pay for hardcover to have new ones >.>

Small Favor was amazing, I thought, too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lyrangalia, 2009-02-10 02:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lil_miss_stfu, 2009-02-10 03:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 05:40 am UTC

[info]mister_terrific
2009-02-10 12:11 am UTC (link)
I can tell where my brain is these days; I see "Dave Duncan" and I immediately wonder who on the Cardinals' pitching staff is going lame now. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]damnedfallacy
2009-02-10 12:28 am UTC (link)
Oh thank god. I thought I was the only one.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(no subject) - [info]meril, 2009-02-10 04:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mister_terrific, 2009-02-10 05:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2009-02-10 03:58 pm UTC

[info]belafarinrod
2009-02-10 12:29 am UTC (link)
Just don't do what I did, and start with Small Favor. You won't understand half of it and spoil yourself... (also don't start with the short story in the Mean Streets collection. It's ridiculously full of spoilers for the latest Dresden novel)

But there's no problem at all jumping in at book two and reading Storm Front whenever it shows up.

(Reply to this)


[info]temaris
2009-02-10 02:06 am UTC (link)
I started the Dresden Files with summer Knight, book 4, and promptly went back and read them from book one -- but I can absolutely guarantee you that if I had started with book one, I wouldn't have bothered with the others. He improves so much over the books, and Storm Front is tedious and belaboured in parts. Clunky, too. If you want to love the books and one day make it to Small Favor, don't start at the beginning. Start with a later book, 3 or 4, fall for Dresden's world, and then backfill to get the bits you're missing. Four is about as far forward as you can go without missing important stuff.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 05:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]temaris, 2009-02-10 10:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 10:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]temaris, 2009-02-10 10:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 11:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]temaris, 2009-02-10 11:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 11:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]temaris, 2009-02-10 11:41 am UTC

[info]mercorir
2009-02-10 02:43 am UTC (link)
Any other fantasy Venice books you'd recommend? I read the Stravaganza series (and hey, I didn't realise there was another one out now!) and enjoyed them, and now I'm on the hunt for more fantasy Venice. :D

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]_goblin_, 2009-02-10 03:41 am UTC
This was no flamingo! It was *evil manifest*. - [info]mercorir, 2009-02-10 03:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anonyrat, 2009-02-10 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercorir, 2009-02-10 02:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2009-02-13 12:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2009-02-10 04:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-02-10 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2009-02-10 05:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-02-10 05:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keleri, 2009-02-10 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercorir, 2009-02-10 03:01 pm UTC
I did it wrong.
[info]moosecharmer
2009-02-10 04:05 am UTC (link)
I read Dead Beat first, because it was the only one my library had. Yes, there were some bits that probably went over my head But overall, it was such a good book that I was hooked. Then I started buying them backwards, I think I read Blood Rites, thenGrave Peril, and liked both, then started back at the beginning with Storm Front and thought it was meh. I read Proven Guilty and was all, "okay! I still like this series!" But to date I'm still halfway through Fool Moon and gave up on White Night thirty pages in because I found his angsty man-voice was too annoying. I think I still really like Dead Beat, but the others I'm solidly meh on.

(Reply to this)


ealusaid
2009-02-10 04:32 am UTC (link)
I just read Dave Duncan's King's Blades universe, which had women in fairly standard roles (girlfriends, mostly) but was not horrible (mostly); I liked his female characters. But I think that was his most concerted effort of "I will treat women well" and I still had to take deep breaths and remind myself that I was reading Gary Stu fantasy, after all.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2009-02-10 04:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]memoriamvictus, 2009-02-10 04:39 am UTC
(no subject) - ealusaid, 2009-02-10 04:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]memoriamvictus, 2009-02-10 07:38 am UTC
(no subject) - ealusaid, 2009-02-10 07:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]memoriamvictus, 2009-02-10 07:47 am UTC

[info]julesnoctambule
2009-02-10 05:51 am UTC (link)
I can't remember which Dresden Files book I picked up first (something with pornos and vampires), but it put me off the series completely. I found it tedious and the voice of the character came across as stiff and not natural in the least. At least it was only a quarter at the thrift!

(Reply to this)


[info]jaina
2009-02-10 05:58 am UTC (link)
I accidentally started the Dresden Files with Book 10, but it actually worked out really well. He basically explains enough backstory in every book that you won't be completely lost. So yeah, start with Fool Moon.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cinnamonical, 2009-02-11 03:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2009-02-11 07:06 am UTC

[info]sandglass
2009-02-10 07:24 am UTC (link)
Important question: Does Dresdan get less obnoxiously sexist after the first book? I've been told that it's just the character but I couldn't be interested in him at all with how bad he was in Storm Front.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]temaris, 2009-02-10 10:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 11:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-10 04:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-02-10 11:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-11 12:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-11 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-11 12:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-11 12:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-11 12:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-11 12:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-11 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-11 12:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-11 12:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-11 12:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-11 12:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-02-11 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lil_miss_stfu, 2009-02-10 11:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cairea, 2009-02-10 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 10:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]persephonea, 2009-02-10 09:44 pm UTC

[info]taichara
2009-02-10 02:39 pm UTC (link)
if you're going to tackle anything by Duncan, I recommend The Gilded Chain which is the first in the King's Blades series.

And if you like it, for the love of little hamsters don't read any of the other ones.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2009-02-10 10:18 pm UTC

 
   
Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map