slightly OT, but it's been bothering me

jkefka
2009-03-13 08:12 pm UTC (link)

OK, F_L, help me out here. I'm a TNG-era trek fan who does enjoy and has seen TOS, and I have somewhat mixed but largely positive feelings about the movie. What I don't know is how much they're retconning. I mean, obviously they're adding some stuff, but can someone give me a list of what they're actually changing that people know of? The only one I can think of offhand is having the Enterprise be constructed on Earth, but I'm willing to forgive that because it's pretty.

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	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me notjo 2009-03-13 08:18 pm UTC (link)
	May I ask if someone does give this list that they present it as a link? I don't want to be spoiled. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me altera 2009-03-13 10:46 pm UTC (link)
	Don't look down. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me sistercoyote 2009-03-13 08:38 pm UTC (link)
	The Enterprise was constructed on Earth in TOS. In San Francisco, in fact, which is where Star Fleet is based. Other than that, I don't know. I keep putting my fingers in my ears and shouting "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" whenever anyone talks about the new movie. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me stellar_dust 2009-03-14 12:41 am UTC (link)
	SPOILERS ... but trying not to be too spoilery (sorry, I don't know of a concise link), the movie involves a plot point that basically gives them free range to change stuff. So a lot of things are indeed changing, particularly character histories. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me munchkinott 2009-03-14 04:11 am UTC (link)
	Movie novelisation book-blurb. I don't have a list of what they're changing, but have managed to conclude (hope my mouseover text works) from the above that the entire thing with this crew's a parallel AU. I am more than ok with that as it doesn't bugger up the established TOS/movies canon. Not saying it won't bugger up Enterprise canon though. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me stellar_dust 2009-03-14 04:41 am UTC (link)
	Pretty sure you're right, and I totally agree! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me munchkinott 2009-03-14 07:49 am UTC (link)
	I hope, hope, hope-hope so. As it'd be really clever if that's what they go with. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me cmdr_zoom 2009-03-14 07:53 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I'm sure the original timeline (like the original episodes) still exists, somewhere out there in the eddies of time, along with the mirror universe and all the rest. It just doesn't matter anymore, and neither do its fans. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me munchkinott 2009-03-15 06:57 pm UTC (link)
	It just doesn't matter anymore, and neither do its fans. I think that's an issue you should take up with Rick Berman. Personally, I'll be thrilled to bits if I get 2 original Trek crews for the price of 1, especially if they hit Tribbles in the sequel. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me inarticulate 2009-03-14 06:08 pm UTC (link)
	That would be awesome and let me see the movie guilt-free. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me

munchkinott
2009-03-15 07:16 pm UTC (link)

I made my mind up that I was going canon-or-not on the 10th viewing of the new trailer and the 2nd of the last one. This theory just makes me feel wholesale better for being easily swayed by VFX, the prospect of never being able to watch Chariots of Fire again without giggling and The Hawt.

I have already paid for The Hawt mind, as my best mate took advantage of the 2 month wait to feed me Heroes. 3 years of vigorous resistance demolished in 36hrs of mainlining... I am a broken woman. *weeps*

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	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me notbulgarian 2009-03-16 01:38 pm UTC (link)
	Oh thank goodness. I like that spoiler. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me munchkinott 2009-03-16 07:36 pm UTC (link)
	If I'm wrong, you have my permission to kill me. Basically, if I'm wrong - I DON'T WANT TO LIIIIIVE! (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me

cmdr_zoom
2009-03-14 04:33 am UTC (link)

Nitpicky non-spoilery stuff:

The look of the Enterprise is very different from the established, battleship-grey Constitution-class - it looks more like an immediate predecessor to the one of the first movies, rather than a whole 'nother technological generation. Some may consider that a good thing; I consider it changing things that don't need changing. (Recent shows have demonstrated, IMO, that the old Connie design can be gussied up with modern FX tech to look right spiffy and realistic.)

The font of the name and registry on the hull is different, again like the first movies. And as others have noted, starships are supposed to be built in spacedock, not on planets. Then you have the "iBridge" - newer, bluer, prettier, completely at odds with the classic bridge look.

Jim Kirk didn't grow up in Iowa (where they have canyons) as an Angry Young Rebel Smouldering With Generic Rage, he grew up on a colony that faced starvation until the administrator (Kodos "the Executioner") reduced the population to meet the food supply - possibly saving the rest, but at a cost too high for the Federation to accept. He was such a grind at the Academy that his roommate, Gary Mitchell, compared him to a pile of books on legs. (The "cowboy" thing must have come later.) And so on.

All of this may seem esoteric to you, let alone an outsider... but try to imagine for a moment a reboot of TNG where everyone is wearing the uniforms from Voyager, only much lower cut; the ship looks like a proto-Sovereign rather than the Galaxy class; instead of Swiss 911 and LCARS, it's all been redone to look like an iTouch; Brent Spiner has been replaced as Data by some currently-hot-but-wildly-inappropriate actor and speaks entirely in LOLCAT; and Wesley Crusher has to take over as captain of the ship.

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cmdr_zoom
2009-03-14 05:09 am UTC (link)

(oh, and suddenly Tasha Yar didn't grow up on an abandoned colony hiding from rape gangs, but in... I dunno, Florida?)

Even shorter version, maybe (and of course, I think of this after all that):
it's like they only ever saw the movies, not the show. (Which is probably true.) So imagine a movie of TNG that ignores all seven seasons (plus DS9 and Voy), is based only on what we saw in Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis, and then starts changing stuff to be more Hip and Cool.

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	jkefka 2009-03-14 05:19 am UTC (link)
	Okay, that makes me less enthusiastic. See, I was kind of down for it because if any Trek character can support the "American badass action hero" shtick it's Kirk, but they're pushing it a little hard. sigh One day the franchise will recover. I swear. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me

jat_sapphire
2009-03-14 11:30 pm UTC (link)

Well, there's the Whitewater creek canyon.

Still, the "farm boy from Iowa" thing (with elder brother) and the bookworm thing and the "survivor of colonycide" thing (aparently sans elder brother) never have fit together all that well, and I say that as someone who started a long-ass pre-series fanfic and tried to jigsaw every damn thing together in it.

I'm trying to see the whole thing as a PRODUCTION, you know, like the Mel Gibson Hamlet, which has some similarities in the canon-salad and inappropriate random hot-right-now actor ways.

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Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me

pfeffermuse
2009-03-15 12:02 am UTC (link)

This. (BTW, I think I love you.)

Based on only the trailer, it's worse than Wesley Crusher has to take over as captain of the ship. At least a case could be made that bridge-trainee Wesley Crusher had some real-life experience: following commands from senior officers and watching senior officers in the performance of their duties on the bridge.

In comparison, when the Enterprise's captain and first officer are killed, fresh-out-of-boot-camp [this ersatz] James T. Kirk is the only person out of a ship of 400 who is capable of taking command. If you re-wrote the previous sentence as: when the Enterprise's captain and first officer are killed, fresh-out-of-boot-camp Mary Sue is the only person out of a ship of 400 who is capable of taking command, the fic would be skewered.

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Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me

cmdr_zoom
2009-03-15 03:37 am UTC (link)

Aw, thanks :)

I was thinking mostly of first-season Wes, the boy wonder - Eugene Wesley Roddenberry's very own personal Canon Sue. The kid who kept getting chased off the bridge, but was smarter than all of the trained, experienced adults.(*)

So I'll admit that this sort of thing does have a certain pedigree/precedent. That doesn't make it less lame.

(* I really sympathize with Wil, in hindsight. While he owns up to his own stupid teenager stuff, a role like that is a hell of a thing to get saddled with at any age - see also Colin Baker, who was actually a fan of WHO but was told to play an ass so that they'd have an excuse to kill it.)

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	Re: slightly OT, but it's been bothering me notjo 2009-03-15 07:36 am UTC (link)
	nodnodnodnod (Reply to this)(Parent)

b_jellybean
2009-03-14 04:35 am UTC (link)

I'm a sick woman because that STILL made me really excited. I don't care how cheesy any of it is.

The added benefit to the trailer is that my brother, who was only sorta into Star Trek back 15 years ago when I was huge into it, and who watched DS9 reruns on Spike with me because he was bored out of his skull, thinks it looks AWESOME. Thus, no X-Files levels of convincing him to go with me :)

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	brennalarose 2009-03-14 06:10 am UTC (link)
	Me, too. While I'm a stickler for canon, a part of me squealed at the new uniforms and the so-called "iBridge" and Karl Urban. My husband informed me that this would NOT be a date movie, so sorry, m'love. I can't help it. I'm easily swayed by the shiny. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	munchkinott 2009-03-15 07:55 pm UTC (link)
	Me, three. I was all set to ignore it as another Batshit Hollywood Concept. Then I saw the trailer and brutally nerdgasmed. Don't everyone's parts squeal at Karl Urban? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	notbulgarian 2009-03-16 02:26 pm UTC (link)
	My parts more squealed at 'at least they haven't screwed McCoy up too much', the Urban pretty is merely an added bonus. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

munchkinott
2009-03-16 07:56 pm UTC (link)

I'm still trying to stop the hairs on the back of my neck bristling at Urban's Bones-esque growl. So, SO never had that problem with DeForrest Kelley. O.o

Similarly, I'm having serious 'Oh Leonard Nimoy never made my hormones do THAT! O.O' problems over Zachary Quinto too.

Talk about taking your childhood to a bar for a rough assignation against the wall with a family friend. O_O

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	notbulgarian 2009-03-16 10:15 pm UTC (link)
	Due to an unfortunate ... problem with Heroes, I find myself having to resist the urge to moan 'brains' in a most zombie-like fashion every time I see Zachary Quinto, I am reasonably resistant to the new crew. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

munchkinott
2009-03-16 11:52 pm UTC (link)

You too? I thought that was just a side effect of cramming two seasons into as many days. O.o

I've already told the mate responsible for the disks that I'm going to be picturing Scotty stalking the corridors of the Enterprise with a cricket bat should Spock start snacking.

Sadly, I'm not as resistant as I thought I was. If I was then my mate's "You're going to have to wait TWO MONTHS. *shakes box of Heroes disks* Instant hit. *shakes box again* Instant hit OR wait two whole months?" line of persuasion wouldn't've worked. She totally took advantage of my oblivious nature and inability to recognise Zachary Quinto if I fell over him, until I metaphorically did fall over him. *pouts* Friends are bloody GREAT, aren't they! :-D

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	nevadafighter 2009-03-14 07:08 pm UTC (link)
	I'm going to see it because I"m a huge fan of shiny action shit and I believe to be a well-rounded individual you need to be exposed to both the good and the bad. (Reply to this)