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Anonyrat ([info]anonyrat) wrote in [info]fandom_rant,
@ 2009-04-02 12:40:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
You got your girl cooties on my paperback industry!
Ok, look.

You're fantasy fans. Big fantasy fans. All those books you love and read over and over again until they fall apart and think are totally amazing? People look down on you for reading them.

Other readers of genre fiction look down on you. If you have never heard a self-righteous scifi fan who thinks his undergraduate physics degree means he understands everything IMPORTANT about the universe go off on how dumb fantasy is, you're a very lucky person. Because I've heard it. A lot of my fantasy fan friends -- hell, a lot of my friends who are fantasy authors -- have had their reading and even their writing dismissed out of hand because of its genre.

You know how their criticisms are usually based on ignorance of the genre? You know how it makes you mad when a bunch of people who don't know what they're talking about say that all fantasy is THIS or THAT, when there's really so much more to it? You know how a lot of times, if you scratch the surface of their complaints, it seems more and more like the big problem with fantasy is that it has a large female readership?

Why the HELL do you turn around and inflict that genre-wanking bullshit on readers of romance novels?

Whenever you make fun of 'dumb plots' that are apparently endemic to a genre of books you have never even touched, you sound just like that arrogant hard-SF guy.

Right down to the sexism.

So stop it.

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[info]notjo
2009-04-02 05:03 pm UTC (link)
Yes, stop it.

Nothing irritates me as much as folks who look down on a particular genre of writing. I find it highly unlikely that they are FORCED TO READ Romance or fantasy or hard scyfi or whatever they don't like.

I hate the stuff my ex read. Strangely, I just... didn't read it! (But I bought him many books, because OMG BOOKS!)

*sigh*

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[info]rosehiptea
2009-04-02 05:50 pm UTC (link)
Years ago remember a sci-fi fan going on to me about how romance novels were wrong because they gave women "unrealistic expectations." This from a guy who practically made a religion out of Star Trek.

Then again, maybe he figured if he couldn't separate fantasy from reality very well no one else could...

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[info]white_serpent
2009-04-02 05:58 pm UTC (link)
Thank you.

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[info]sablemouse
2009-04-02 06:06 pm UTC (link)
Hear hear.

As a person who pretty much reads anything, I always get annoyed when someone proceeds to put down genre fiction readers of any genre.

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[info]hallidae
2009-04-02 06:06 pm UTC (link)
Every genre has its crap. No exceptions. Pretending like your genre is all that is good and holy and there could never be anything bad come out of it, while deriding another genre as nothing but bullshit because it's not something you're into just makes you look like a delusional douchebag.

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[info]ari_
2009-04-02 07:00 pm UTC (link)
that wouldn't have been prompted by a post on a book community on LJ, would it?

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[info]anonyrat
2009-04-02 07:24 pm UTC (link)
Nah, something in the real world.

Why, got a particularly egregious example?

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[info]ariadne484
2009-04-02 07:31 pm UTC (link)
Word. I don't know why it especially bugs me from people who (should) know what it's like to be despised for their hobbies, such as fantasy fans, but it extra crispily does. It's not only obnoxious but hypocritical.

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[info]anonyrat
2009-04-02 07:43 pm UTC (link)
It's especially annoying because people should learn empathy from having experiences that made them feel bad, but they DON'T.

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[info]ecchaniz0r
2009-04-02 08:57 pm UTC (link)
This x infinity.

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[info]eleutheria
2009-04-03 01:43 am UTC (link)
It's like all the people on my flist who call reality TV "the downfall of Western civilization" and imply people are morons for watching it, but love SPN and other cracky TV shows. Your bad TV is great, but mine is awful. Got it.

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[info]ellensmithee
2009-04-02 07:39 pm UTC (link)
Most people who deride romance have either never read it or they read one book back in the 80s when there were huge amounts of hair-raising misogynist dreck. Not that there aren't a lot of really bad books nowadays, but there are a lot of really good ones, too, with good characterization and good stories. One set of people who really annoy me are slash fans who read all sorts of slash fiction having the same exact formulaic plots and conventions as the typical romance novel and then get all het up about romance novels. GUESS WHAT YOU'RE READING. /rant

I had a problem with my sister for a while because she was constantly bitching about my reading romance and how it was trash and formulaic and not worth my time. When I pointed out that I could say the same thing about her beloved mysteries and that she was being hypocritical, did she stop bugging me about romance? No, she stopped reading mysteries altogether. :-(

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[info]keri
2009-04-02 08:11 pm UTC (link)
One set of people who really annoy me are slash fans who read all sorts of slash fiction having the same exact formulaic plots and conventions as the typical romance novel and then get all het up about romance novels.

Holy crap, that bugs me, too!

But I also hate that a lot of the slash *is* Romance Novels Gone Gay. There's a reason I only read that genre once or twice a year, people. :O


(Okay, the story about your sister made me laugh, I'm sorry. My own preferred genre is girls series, like the Stratemeyer Syndicate? and then modern versions, so I don't have any room to complain, either.)

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[info]seiberwing
2009-04-02 08:44 pm UTC (link)

But I also hate that a lot of the slash *is* Romance Novels Gone Gay.

That's exactly how I described it to my mom, actually.

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[info]ecchaniz0r
2009-04-02 09:00 pm UTC (link)
Okay, I lol'd in re: slash, because OH SO VERY TRUE.


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[info]zara_zero
2009-04-02 11:45 pm UTC (link)
But I also hate that a lot of the slash *is* Romance Novels Gone Gay.

I hate this too, even as a slash fan! I prefer long fics which are plot plot plot with a side order of gay romance only when appropriate to the plot, but it's pretty hard to find that sometimes.

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[info]keri
2009-04-03 01:45 am UTC (link)
Yup, that's what I read slash for. Or what I want to read it for. As it is, I'm reading it for my romance genre fix, too.

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[info]crickets
2009-04-03 11:45 pm UTC (link)
This.

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[info]melannen
2009-04-03 02:18 pm UTC (link)
Yay! Another Stratemeyer fan! (Though I like their boys' series too.)

Sorry, it just so rarely comes up :D

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[info]mcity
2009-04-03 01:59 am UTC (link)
One set of people who really annoy me are slash fans who...get all het up about romance novels.
No pun intended?

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[info]singe
2009-04-03 02:58 am UTC (link)
in the 80s when there were huge amounts of hair-raising misogynist dreck

Yup. That and teen melodramas that emulated (badly) S.E. Hinton. The 80s were not a good time to try to sneak into the romance section of the bookstore as a kid.

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

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[info]funwithrage
2009-04-03 03:33 am UTC (link)
This, and I'm talking as someone who a) used to deride romance while simultaneously reading it and b) is trying to get a damn novel published in the genre.

A little while back, I realized that what I actually objected to--and still object to--is not an innate property of the genre, but rather the eighties-era guidelines and the environment they created. Some of those guidelines still exist--Silhouette can fuck right off for its "alpha male who the heroine must tame!" requirement--and a fair number of authors are still writing based on what came before, which in turn was shaped by those guidelines, so I'd say that there's still proportionately more badness in the genre than in those which never had the explicit formulas...

...but it's getting a *lot* better. Publishers like Elora's Cave and whoever does Secrets are opening things up to tough, sexually liberated heroines and sex scenes that call a cock a cock. Hell, even Harlequin has two or three of those lines (while also publishing Steeple Hill inspirational romance--now those are goddamn ridiculous) and it doesn't have inane requirements about the main characters anymore.

In short: I can see where the anti-romance sentiment is coming from, but I wish people would realize that the genre's changed a whole lot.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]squeakthemouse
2009-04-03 04:32 am UTC (link)
One set of people who really annoy me are slash fans who read all sorts of slash fiction having the same exact formulaic plots and conventions as the typical romance novel and then get all het up about romance novels. GUESS WHAT YOU'RE READING. /rant

This cracks me up because it's so very, very true.

These are usually the same people who also deride het fics for doing those same things.

It reminds me of that great wank a while back when someone on FFR was like, "only slash writers can write good het smut."

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[info]erototoxin
2009-04-03 02:02 am UTC (link)
I think it's good for us to reflect that whatever our fandoms are, they're just about as goofy as everyone else's.

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[info]mister_terrific
2009-04-03 12:44 pm UTC (link)
And that everybody needs somebody else to look down on.

Oh the lit fans hate the media fans
And the media fans hate the lit fans
To hate all but the right fans
Is an old First Fandom rule

But during Fandom Brotherhood Week
Fandom Brotherhood Week
Doctor Who and Louis Wu are dancing cheek-to-cheek
It’s fun to eulogize
A fanboy you despise
As long as you don’t let them in your con

Oh the comics fans hate the gamers
And the gamers hate the comic fans
All of my fen hate all of your fen
It’s the I.D.I.C. way!

But during Fandom Brotherhood Week
Fandom Brotherhood Week
Trekkies all read Heinlein ‘cause it’s very chic
Step up and shake the hand
Of some fanboy you can’t stand
You can tolerate him if he’s bathed

Oh the lit fans hate the costumers
And the Trekkies hate the furries
And the gamers hate otaku
And everybody hates Mundanes

But during Fandom Brotherhood Week
Fandom Brotherhood Week
‘We’re all fans here so let’s be nice’-hood Week
Be kind to morons who
Are inferior to you
It’s only for a week so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]nekoneko
2009-04-03 02:14 pm UTC (link)
You just made a filk with National Brotherhood Week.

You, sir, are awesome.

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[info]mister_terrific
2009-04-03 02:54 pm UTC (link)
Well, actually I did it five years ago. I just bring it out for appropriate occasions.

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[info]abharding
2009-04-03 05:39 pm UTC (link)

Oh wonderful...that is just wonderful.

And so very, very true.

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[info]miss_padfoot
2009-04-05 08:09 pm UTC (link)
*offers shiny internet*

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[info]breecita
2009-04-03 03:50 pm UTC (link)
I love you a little. Or a lot.

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[info]abharding
2009-04-03 05:47 pm UTC (link)
I have never, ever understood that sort of mentality. The "my interest is cool/hip/smart/important yours is just dumb thing". Oh, I'll admit I am no fan of romance novels, but just because they are not my thing, it doesn't mean I get to look down on people who do enjoy them.

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