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seiberwing (![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} seiberwing) wrote in ![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/community.gif){kind=small} fandom_rant,@ 2010-10-04 13:09:00 |
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Homework? What's that?
So. You are trying to address the unfortunate trope of women in anime/manga getting power and then going crazy from it, implying that women are too weak to hold on to power and should stay in the kitchen. Yes, this trope is unfortunate.
However, when you start using characters from Ace Attorney as examples, either misinterpreting their characters or pulling things completely out of nowhere (Franziska stops prosecuting after admitting her love for Edgeworth, the HELL?) I'm going to step in and correct you.
And when your only reply to my complaint is that you'd already admitted a mild error relating to Franziska (by which I mean a gross mischaracterization that makes me wonder if you've even played the games) and that all I'm doing is nitpicking your comments, then I'm going to nitpick it further out of mere annoyance.
Mia Fey - lawyer, spirit medium - is murdered when she confronts a criminal alone
If it weren't for the references to Misty Fey I'd wonder if you'd even played Trials and Tribulations. Yes, Mia died when she confronted a stronger criminal alone, technically speaking. But this was to set up Phoenix needing to work on his own and it's not like it took her long to come back. I also think the game clearly invalidates the point that she needed a man to protect her, since Godot's chauvinist opinion on the subject is so brutally proven wrong during the course of 3-5. She was her own woman who made her own choices and Phoenix wasn't responsible for what happened.
This is rendered even more pointless by the fact that Mia Fey is a goddamn badass and doesn't let a simple thing like dying get her down. Her advice to Phoenix kept him going through some very tough cases and her takedown of Dahlia Hawthorne counts among the Crowning Moments of Awesome for the entire series.
Maya and Pearl Fey - spirit mediums - both go through incidents wherein they think an angry spirit took over their bodies and killed someone; Maya is repeatedly threatened by female relatives jealous of her power
Pearl never thought an evil spirit took over her body. One very nearly did but Pearl had no idea what was going on and her attempts to channel that spirit completely failed. You could make the case that she was manipulated by others but that doesn't make her evil. That just makes her nine.
Maya's gotten in a bad habit of needing to be rescued but most of it is tied to Kurain and Morgan's attempts to kill/disrepute her (also relatives, plural? Are we including Dahlia in this?). The actual channeling is often what saves her, either through summoning Mia for advice, using Mia as a go-between with Pearl to transmit messages, or hiding from an evil spirit in the last place that spirit would look. In addition Morgan was jealous of her position, not her power. Pearl clearly is the more powerful of the two but Maya is the last daughter of the Fey main family and holds the position purely by virtue of birth.
Phoenix Wright: Misty Fey - matriarch, spirit medium - is murdered by a female relative jealous of her power, because that is what women do to each other
Misty Fey wasn't murdered by someone jealous of her power. Technically she was murdered by Godot to protect Maya from the evil spirit inside her. More generally, she was killed because of Morgan's attempts to kill Maya and make sure the Master position went to her daughter Pearl. Nobody besides Godot, Bikini, and Iris even knew that Misty was at Hazakura to begin with (which brings up a few plot holes in itself but let's not go there.)
I'm a little annoyed at the final comment, by the way, because it's not like the men in the series are any better about jockeying for power and struggling against each other to the point of murder. Unless there's something Mr. Engarde hasn't been telling us.
Phoenix Wright: Morgan Fey - matriarch, spirit medium - conspires to frame family member for murder to preserve her power
Preserve? Morgan has no power, that's her entire problem. She wants to get rid of Maya so Pearl can take over as Kurain Master.
Dee Vasquez - television producer - following accidental death of her boyfriend, turns evil, blackmails people, accidentally kills someone, and gets caught
I haven't played the first game in a while but I recall Vasquez being a mafiosa and evil to begin with. The wiki also doesn't say anything about the dead actor being her boyfriend.
Phoenix Wright: Celeste Inpax - actor's manager - commits suicide following betrayal by managee fiance
Okay, yeah, so Celeste is in the fridge. Death by Adrian's origin story. But does she count if she was dead long before she was even introduced and her death had nothing to with her power?
Phoenix Wright: Adrian Andrews - actor's manager - Shameful Secret Love for Celeste Inpax; secretly co-dependent and seriously depressed; is much happier when she takes a job that intimidates other people less
First off, I don't think her love for Celeste was any great secret. It was her depressing and suicide attempt afterwards Adrian tried to cover up. Secondly, you're greatly oversimplifying the situation. Adrian was never very intimidating to start with, she was just cold and withdrawn. I can't imagine that her job at Lordly Tailor is any less stressful than managing Matt Engarde (personal issues aside) and the fact she could even find a good job with a criminal record speaks to her continued prowess. The co-dependency is an issue but again it is completely removed from her managing skills and was there before she took on the job with Engarde.
Phoenix Wright: Franziska von Karma - lawyer, person who has a whip - becomes distraught after losing a case; Shameful Secret Love (Edgeworth); never practices again after confessing her love to him
I put this at the end because it's simply the most 'what the hell' of the bunch. Franziska comes from a family where imperfection and failure were capital crimes. Of course losing is going to mess with her but it doesn't irredeemably break her. After her loss she bounces back immediately to keep prosecuting against Phoenix Wright and doesn't truly break down until she sees Edgeworth and Wright caring less about winning than about the truth. I'm not sure where you're getting the 'confession of love' thing, possibly from the scene at the train station (her single moment of obvious weakness), but that is definitely not the end to her career. At the end of that conversation she even vows to be a better prosecutor than before, so as to outdo Edgeworth.
And it's not like the incident scarred her for life. She goes back to prosecuting in Europe, which is what she was doing before she came over to Japanifornia to start whipping poor Mr. Wright, and she was doing a good job over there. In the third game she comes back to cover for Miles to protect his identity as a prosecutor but still prosecutes to the best of her very aggressive ability and doesn't let any budding emotional connection hold her back. By Investigations she's running with the Interpol crowd and she's still her classy arrogant self even though she's not in the courtroom at that particular moment. If one takes into account Miles' time spent studying foreign court techniques and pretending to be dead she's probably done more prosecuting than he has. Franziska has her issues and most of them are her father's fault, but she's anything but a wilting violet in need of protection.
Honestly, I'm surprised you didn't include Lana as a powerful Chief Prosecutor taken advantage of by a male figure and rescued by another male figure. It would still be a gross oversimplification of the issues but it would make far more sense than Fraulein Whiplash.
It's very annoying to see a bunch of strong women trashed like this, especially when they make up half the list of examples of female characters laid low because of their attempts to gain power. It's not nitpicking if you're blatantly wrong on everything.
So. You are trying to address the unfortunate trope of women in anime/manga getting power and then going crazy from it, implying that women are too weak to hold on to power and should stay in the kitchen. Yes, this trope is unfortunate.
However, when you start using characters from Ace Attorney as examples, either misinterpreting their characters or pulling things completely out of nowhere (Franziska stops prosecuting after admitting her love for Edgeworth, the HELL?) I'm going to step in and correct you.
And when your only reply to my complaint is that you'd already admitted a mild error relating to Franziska (by which I mean a gross mischaracterization that makes me wonder if you've even played the games) and that all I'm doing is nitpicking your comments, then I'm going to nitpick it further out of mere annoyance.
Mia Fey - lawyer, spirit medium - is murdered when she confronts a criminal alone
If it weren't for the references to Misty Fey I'd wonder if you'd even played Trials and Tribulations. Yes, Mia died when she confronted a stronger criminal alone, technically speaking. But this was to set up Phoenix needing to work on his own and it's not like it took her long to come back. I also think the game clearly invalidates the point that she needed a man to protect her, since Godot's chauvinist opinion on the subject is so brutally proven wrong during the course of 3-5. She was her own woman who made her own choices and Phoenix wasn't responsible for what happened.
This is rendered even more pointless by the fact that Mia Fey is a goddamn badass and doesn't let a simple thing like dying get her down. Her advice to Phoenix kept him going through some very tough cases and her takedown of Dahlia Hawthorne counts among the Crowning Moments of Awesome for the entire series.
Maya and Pearl Fey - spirit mediums - both go through incidents wherein they think an angry spirit took over their bodies and killed someone; Maya is repeatedly threatened by female relatives jealous of her power
Pearl never thought an evil spirit took over her body. One very nearly did but Pearl had no idea what was going on and her attempts to channel that spirit completely failed. You could make the case that she was manipulated by others but that doesn't make her evil. That just makes her nine.
Maya's gotten in a bad habit of needing to be rescued but most of it is tied to Kurain and Morgan's attempts to kill/disrepute her (also relatives, plural? Are we including Dahlia in this?). The actual channeling is often what saves her, either through summoning Mia for advice, using Mia as a go-between with Pearl to transmit messages, or hiding from an evil spirit in the last place that spirit would look. In addition Morgan was jealous of her position, not her power. Pearl clearly is the more powerful of the two but Maya is the last daughter of the Fey main family and holds the position purely by virtue of birth.
Phoenix Wright: Misty Fey - matriarch, spirit medium - is murdered by a female relative jealous of her power, because that is what women do to each other
Misty Fey wasn't murdered by someone jealous of her power. Technically she was murdered by Godot to protect Maya from the evil spirit inside her. More generally, she was killed because of Morgan's attempts to kill Maya and make sure the Master position went to her daughter Pearl. Nobody besides Godot, Bikini, and Iris even knew that Misty was at Hazakura to begin with (which brings up a few plot holes in itself but let's not go there.)
I'm a little annoyed at the final comment, by the way, because it's not like the men in the series are any better about jockeying for power and struggling against each other to the point of murder. Unless there's something Mr. Engarde hasn't been telling us.
Phoenix Wright: Morgan Fey - matriarch, spirit medium - conspires to frame family member for murder to preserve her power
Preserve? Morgan has no power, that's her entire problem. She wants to get rid of Maya so Pearl can take over as Kurain Master.
Dee Vasquez - television producer - following accidental death of her boyfriend, turns evil, blackmails people, accidentally kills someone, and gets caught
I haven't played the first game in a while but I recall Vasquez being a mafiosa and evil to begin with. The wiki also doesn't say anything about the dead actor being her boyfriend.
Phoenix Wright: Celeste Inpax - actor's manager - commits suicide following betrayal by managee fiance
Okay, yeah, so Celeste is in the fridge. Death by Adrian's origin story. But does she count if she was dead long before she was even introduced and her death had nothing to with her power?
Phoenix Wright: Adrian Andrews - actor's manager - Shameful Secret Love for Celeste Inpax; secretly co-dependent and seriously depressed; is much happier when she takes a job that intimidates other people less
First off, I don't think her love for Celeste was any great secret. It was her depressing and suicide attempt afterwards Adrian tried to cover up. Secondly, you're greatly oversimplifying the situation. Adrian was never very intimidating to start with, she was just cold and withdrawn. I can't imagine that her job at Lordly Tailor is any less stressful than managing Matt Engarde (personal issues aside) and the fact she could even find a good job with a criminal record speaks to her continued prowess. The co-dependency is an issue but again it is completely removed from her managing skills and was there before she took on the job with Engarde.
Phoenix Wright: Franziska von Karma - lawyer, person who has a whip - becomes distraught after losing a case; Shameful Secret Love (Edgeworth); never practices again after confessing her love to him
I put this at the end because it's simply the most 'what the hell' of the bunch. Franziska comes from a family where imperfection and failure were capital crimes. Of course losing is going to mess with her but it doesn't irredeemably break her. After her loss she bounces back immediately to keep prosecuting against Phoenix Wright and doesn't truly break down until she sees Edgeworth and Wright caring less about winning than about the truth. I'm not sure where you're getting the 'confession of love' thing, possibly from the scene at the train station (her single moment of obvious weakness), but that is definitely not the end to her career. At the end of that conversation she even vows to be a better prosecutor than before, so as to outdo Edgeworth.
And it's not like the incident scarred her for life. She goes back to prosecuting in Europe, which is what she was doing before she came over to Japanifornia to start whipping poor Mr. Wright, and she was doing a good job over there. In the third game she comes back to cover for Miles to protect his identity as a prosecutor but still prosecutes to the best of her very aggressive ability and doesn't let any budding emotional connection hold her back. By Investigations she's running with the Interpol crowd and she's still her classy arrogant self even though she's not in the courtroom at that particular moment. If one takes into account Miles' time spent studying foreign court techniques and pretending to be dead she's probably done more prosecuting than he has. Franziska has her issues and most of them are her father's fault, but she's anything but a wilting violet in need of protection.
Honestly, I'm surprised you didn't include Lana as a powerful Chief Prosecutor taken advantage of by a male figure and rescued by another male figure. It would still be a gross oversimplification of the issues but it would make far more sense than Fraulein Whiplash.
It's very annoying to see a bunch of strong women trashed like this, especially when they make up half the list of examples of female characters laid low because of their attempts to gain power. It's not nitpicking if you're blatantly wrong on everything.
