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Dragonfangirl ([info]dragonfangirl) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2006-09-25 23:11:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:hungry
Entry tags:community: fanficrants, fandom: full metal alchemist, fanfic, internet lawyers

Copyright wank in FMA colors: 232nd verse, same as the first
Fullmetal Alchemist has been quiet lately. Is the fandom dead? No -- just out of practice. Well, we'll soon fix that!

It all starts, in this case, with a post on [info]fanficrants. [info]yuuo, brought to you by previous wanks like this one, opens up with an irate diatribe, properly punctuated with caps, against unscrupulous ficcers who sell their works for money.


YOU DO NOT MAKE MONEY OFF OF FANFIC.

EVER.

Do you realize the trouble you could bring down on the fanfic 'industry', such as it is, if you did? No, of course you don't, 'cause you're special and copyright laws apparently don't apply to you, or something.

So repeat after me until this is through your thick, fangirl skull.

YOU DO NOT MAKE MONEY OFF OF FANFIC.



Well, that's pretty basic, isn't it? Don't scalp derivative works for profit. That's something every fan can agree on, and many do. There's much "word" ing, much "I can't believe some idiot fangirl would try that!" and much "What? Are we all gonna get sued?" from the galley. "I'm gonna be pissed if this screws things up!" ironically exclaims [info]evil_rem, professional troll. Comparisons are made with Lori Jaero, and with the girl who tried to sell a CD of her work on ebay for $300. "This is how things get ruined for the rest of us," Yuuo remarks in disgust.

All is well, or at least in a harmonious chorus of condemnation. But starting with this thread, it stops being so much a generalized, scalping-is-evil! and starts being a little more specific. A Certain Someone is alluded to, but mysteriously Not Named. This Mysterious Someone has been printing out copies of her fanfic and selling them at cons. This is just the worst thing ever... and I mean worst. Like, worse than selling bootleg copies of tickets to Steve Irwin's funeral.


Shit, I just saw somebody posting pictures of her fanfic she was selling. I'm just appalled. Maybe she thought if she threw in some illustrations and a pretty cover that it won't matter if she made some cash off somebody else's property.


Comments start to get nastier. Defense is pre-empted with the self-consoling observation that only her sheep, I mean, "followers," would possibly defend this unknown woman. In conclusion, we all had a Very Narrow Escape.


This particular case will probably go unnoticed, thankfully, all things considered, but really, all it takes is one case for things to get really nasty for the fanficcing community. She's just very damn lucky it probably won't attract trouble. 'Cause I think there's a number of fans who would be Very Very Angry with her if it did.


Then [info]cereta (a sheep?) puts out a "wait, hang on."


So she was selling a printed version of her fiction, with covers and an illustration. Was it bound? How much was she charging?

Because depending on the answers to these questions, I'd invite folks to look up the word "zine."



Now look what you've done, woman. You've turned this from a nice, clean hatefest into a messy, muddled debate over zines, fanfic, doujinshi, distribution, and copyright. Don't forget: it's not possible to have your own opinion on fanficrants! You're only allowed to defend friends and slaver after BNFs!

In answer to her question, a few people who apparently knows this Unnamed Personage (more sheep?) chip in, to say that the fanfic was being sold for the cost of printing and distribution, and only eight copies were made. Someone (another sheep?) points out that the printing and distribution of zines has been going on for forty-odd years. But that's still wrong, isn't it? Isn't it?!

My personal favorite comments in this thread are made by [info]cereta:


Because yeah, people selling printed, bound fanfiction for the cost of production can kill fandom!

Oh, wait...


and [info]ceru_see:

Those who do not remember the past are doomed to look like fucking morons whenever they open their mouths.

Would you like to borrow my copy of Textual Poachers so you can hit people in the head with it?



Someone else asks the difference between selling a print of a fanart at a con and selling a print of a fanfic at a con. (More on this later!) Comparisons of both are made with doujinshi.

The talk turns from moralities to legalities. As the argument goes on, minutae of copyright law and past precendents gets trotted out. But just in case you were worried that things were getting too dry for wank, don't be! The Unnamed Personage is finally named -- it's Sky Dark, a popular Roy/Ed author in the FMA fandom, previously seen in such wanks as the one on [info]brotherselric which I can't be bothered to find. [info]yuuo is accused of having a grudge against Sky Dark; but that's okay, because as [info]jchaos kindly reminds us, only sheep can disagree with them.

The wank continues even as I type, since apparently nobody in this debate is willing to sit back and let anyone else have the last word. Also don't miss the appearance of [info]anax, which, as anyone who has seen him in action before knows, is a guaranteed wank fest all on its own.

Of course, a wank can't be a wank if it's confined to a single post in a single community, no matter how virulent. But meanwhile, [info]cryogenia makes a post in her personal LJ, wondering about the seeming double-standard in fandom between fanart and fanfic. Fanart is considered okay to sell, but fanfic is not: discuss. Some discussion ensues, then [info]yuuo shows up, well armed with the Fap of Righteous Justification.

I never once said it was right or fair or anything of the sort. I said until the law figures out what the hell it's going to say about it, it's not a smart idea. That's all I said, and I can pull text right from the damn post to prove it, and I will continue to stand by what I said.

The ever-legal [info]midnightbanshee responds, and in [info]yuuo's own words, kicks her ass and takes her lunch money. And it looks like this thread, too, may dissolve into acrimony. More.




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(Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2006-09-25 04:29 pm UTC (link)
You've got a bit of repeated text in the paragraph beginning "Minutiae".

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2006-09-25 04:45 pm UTC

[info]drakyndra
2006-09-25 04:49 pm UTC (link)
I was wondering who they were on about, but couldn't be bothered reading through all the comments.

So there's that mystery solved.

(Reply to this)


[info]stupid_fangirl
2006-09-25 05:00 pm UTC (link)
I had reported it here about 12:30 pm.
Well, it wanked up just after Yuuo backed to reply everyone repititively. -_-'

(Reply to this)


[info]reeve
2006-09-25 05:12 pm UTC (link)
Wow... a "selling fanfics" wank report where the wank stems not from the author in question, but a person ranting against them? I do believe this is a first.

And yay, selling fanfics wank, with bonus Anax appearance! Christmas came early this year :D

(Reply to this)


[info]quettaser
2006-09-25 05:24 pm UTC (link)
I saw this on my flist this morning. It seems like something grudgy trumped up as a legal issue. And does anyone else think [info]yuuo has a tenuous grip on the law to begin with? Yarbro went after a zine and won, so therefore all zines are illegal and making them destroys fandoms? Bitch, please.

Oh, and it was [info]cereta who said "wait, hang on..." and she's by no means a sheep. She's been in fandom since the days of yore.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mister_terrific, 2006-09-25 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 09:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 09:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 09:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mister_terrific, 2006-09-25 09:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 10:29 pm UTC

[info]sheep
2006-09-25 05:30 pm UTC (link)
Defense is pre-empted with the self-consoling observation that only her sheep, I mean, "followers," would possibly defend this unknown woman.

Then someone (a sheep?) puts out a "wait, hang on."

In answer to her question, a few people who apparently knows this Unnamed Personage (more sheep?) chip in, to say that the fanfic was being sold for the cost of printing and distribution, and only eight copies were made.

Someone (another sheep?) points out that the printing and distribution of zines has been going on for forty-odd years. But that's still wrong, isn't it? Isn't it?!

</a></b></a>[info]jchaos kindly reminds us, only sheep can disagree with them.


Wow! I have been busy...

Please, no wool bashing!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2006-09-25 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stupid_fangirl, 2006-09-25 05:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-09-25 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2006-09-25 09:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2006-09-26 08:11 am UTC

[info]sunshinegirl
2006-09-25 05:33 pm UTC (link)
All of this totally makes me want to publish a zine.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mister_terrific, 2006-09-25 05:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sunshinegirl, 2006-09-25 05:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-09-25 06:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mister_terrific, 2006-09-25 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wrongly_amused, 2006-09-25 06:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-09-25 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wrongly_amused, 2006-09-25 10:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-09-25 10:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aaron_agonistes, 2006-09-26 12:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-26 04:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tez, 2006-09-26 05:15 am UTC

[info]lexin
2006-09-25 05:48 pm UTC (link)
Since I appear to have been labelled a sheep: baaaa!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2006-09-25 11:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2006-09-25 11:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-26 04:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vasaris, 2006-09-26 11:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-26 03:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-09-26 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 02:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ryuutchi, 2006-09-26 12:28 pm UTC

[info]wolfstar
2006-09-25 06:01 pm UTC (link)
tl;dr

it's funny how both sides are just foaming at the mouths to go after each other.

(Reply to this)


[info]attilathebun
2006-09-25 06:02 pm UTC (link)
Those who do not remember the past are doomed to look like fucking morons whenever they open their mouths.

I want to use this over and over and over. I don't care about the context in which it was said; that's irrelevant. The phrase just makes me happy.

(Reply to this)


[info]shirokumo
2006-09-25 06:05 pm UTC (link)
So glad I quit the fandom before I was even into it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 07:22 pm UTC

[info]mindset
2006-09-25 06:11 pm UTC (link)
Good ol' jchaos, thoughtlessly defending friends and spewing inanity as usual! Sometimes it's comforting to know that people never change...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 02:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jchaos, 2006-09-26 09:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2006-09-26 09:30 pm UTC
OT - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 11:01 am UTC
Re: OT - [info]mindset, 2006-09-26 09:31 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-09-25 06:39 pm UTC (link)
Wow, did that ever get out of hand. I commented on the beginning, but I saw the wank coming. I forgot about it, and boom! Here it is! Kinda cool. :)

viralmemory @ lj

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 06:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 02:01 am UTC

[info]black_spot
2006-09-25 07:16 pm UTC (link)
Ooh heck! I replied to a comment, luckily it wasn’t the main wank. Yuuo should high tail as fast as she can go out of fandom, if she’s that petrified.

(Reply to this)


[info]faemageforsaken
2006-09-25 07:19 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, [info]yuuo just reeks of either grudge or envy.


...mmmm...Envy...


Yes, I'm so glad I only get FMA fandom from the fringes.

And if I never read the phrase, "I never said it was right or fair, but..." one more time, I'll die a happy fangirl.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hieronymousb, 2006-09-26 12:22 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-09-25 07:38 pm UTC (link)
What? Wait! You're telling me there's *money* in this crap?
(Grabs keyboard and starts writing 'Xiaolin Showdown' porn)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 08:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 08:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 08:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-09-25 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 10:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-25 10:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 05:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]redcoast, 2006-09-25 09:45 pm UTC
I'd love to hear this newscast... - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 12:15 am UTC
Re: I'd love to hear this newscast... - [info]tez, 2006-09-26 06:29 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-09-25 07:40 pm UTC (link)
Damn, I had no idea that my question was going to wind up feeding the wank like that. I just honestly wanted an answer as to why fandom reacts so differently...

In retrospect, I probably should have known that FFRants was probably not exactly the right place to ask.

-appadil

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cryogenia, 2006-09-25 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2006-09-25 10:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]luxshine, 2006-09-25 11:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]april_hurst, 2006-09-26 02:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]luxshine, 2006-09-26 02:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-09-26 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 01:48 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 02:31 pm UTC

[info]theladyfeylene
2006-09-25 07:57 pm UTC (link)
I feel like I'm standing in the eye of a wank tornado...

(Seriously, I love you all!)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rustybitch, 2006-09-26 11:31 am UTC

[info]cryogenia
2006-09-25 08:03 pm UTC (link)
Whoa, my first appearance on F_W O.o; Guess it's true what they say that they eat their own XD;

Still, threads like this make me not sorry. I am more and more wondering if this is some kind of grudgewank :(

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 08:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cryogenia, 2006-09-25 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cryogenia, 2006-09-25 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-25 08:33 pm UTC

[info]whimsy_chan
2006-09-25 08:32 pm UTC (link)
W00t! In celebration, I'm going to print up copies of Sky Dark's fics and sell them since, y'know, they're not really hers because they're based on someone else's copyrighted material. I think that's how it goes. And I could use a couple extra bucks.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]frau_eva, 2006-09-26 02:14 am UTC

[info]evanwaters
2006-09-25 08:35 pm UTC (link)
But is it okay to talk about Fight Club?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wolfstar, 2006-09-25 09:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 12:04 pm UTC

[info]sisterelwood
2006-09-25 08:41 pm UTC (link)
This is just the worst thing ever... and I mean worst. Like, worse than selling bootleg copies of tickets to Steve Irwin's funeral.

Does this mean that Steve Irwin is going to get to be like Harry Potter- no wank is complete without a mention?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]zing_och, 2006-09-25 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-26 05:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-09-25 11:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fourthage, 2006-09-26 07:00 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-09-25 08:55 pm UTC (link)
First appearance on F_W! Who knew! D:



- Midnight Banshee

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 11:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 11:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-26 12:43 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 04:42 am UTC

[info]mcity
2006-09-25 09:01 pm UTC (link)
I never said fanzines weren't a copyright violation. My point, since you seem to have missed it, is that selling fanfic has happened before, will happen again, it's nothing to get your panties in a wad over. It's nothing that's going to OMG BRING DOWN THE WRATH OF CORPORATE AMERICA DOWN ON YOUR HEAD.
Does this guy say anything that isn't a sarcastic straw man?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hieronymousb, 2006-09-26 12:27 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 12:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-09-26 01:23 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 01:43 am UTC
That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been
[info]redcoast
2006-09-25 09:30 pm UTC (link)
Still, there are times when I hate both sides of the "Is fanfic legal?" debate. This is one of those times.

Also, why's people making mention of doujinshi? Japanese copyright law doesn't have much to do with American copyright law.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]ymfaery, 2006-09-25 09:40 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 09:41 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]redcoast, 2006-09-25 09:47 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - (Anonymous), 2006-09-25 09:52 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]redcoast, 2006-09-25 09:57 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]ladyofviolets, 2006-09-25 11:18 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]ymfaery, 2006-09-25 11:40 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]dragonfangirl, 2006-09-26 12:24 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]ymfaery, 2006-09-26 12:34 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]hallidae, 2006-09-26 12:26 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]churri, 2006-09-26 02:05 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]hallidae, 2006-09-26 02:08 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]churri, 2006-09-27 02:00 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]hallidae, 2006-09-27 02:12 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 05:38 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 10:02 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]redcoast, 2006-09-25 10:05 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-25 10:21 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]redcoast, 2006-09-25 10:23 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-25 11:01 pm UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]kamiki_seto, 2006-09-26 12:10 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-26 12:46 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]puipui, 2006-09-26 03:24 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]faemageforsaken, 2006-09-26 05:24 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]hallidae, 2006-09-26 05:58 am UTC
Re: That wasn't as bloodthirsty as it could have been - [info]puipui, 2006-09-26 06:59 am UTC


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