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Jon "Bad Wasabi" Wood ([info]mcity) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2006-09-26 13:07:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:comics, think of the fictional children

Won't somebody think of the superheroes?
There's a post on scans_daily of Superman meeting Captain Marvel. It ends with Clark finding homeless Billy(Marvel's alter ego), and opening his shirt.[1],[2],[3],[4].

[info]lovecrafty:

I actually think I find that last two pages disturbing. The older man sitting on a bed in a slum with some homeless boy, and he's clearly undone his shirt? That's just creepy and gross, and not the sort of subtext I want to see in a comic book.

I mean, okay, obviously it's not what it looks like - but how could the artist, writer, editor and others involved not see what it looks like. This isn't the 1950s, were people were genuinely naive enough to not see the subtext of images like these.

I don't have any problem with writers and artist inserting images that could be intrepetted in ways that defy canon -- the sort of subcontextual images that are always popping up here that imply certain characters are homosexual, or submissives, or are references to hentai and other forms of quasi-pornography.

I'm a grown up, I'm open-minded and liberal, and it doesn't bother me one bit if Spider-Man and Venom's relationship occasionally seems to make references to gay rough trade (something I had never realized utnil joining this forum. Thanks?). Also, the aggressor in that subcontextual relationship is...Venom, the villian, the deranged psychopathic killing monster.

But when artists and writers who ought to be aware of the power of their stories and images to convey subtexts create subcontexts in which heroic characters are portrayed as, for example, child molestors, that's not really that funny. That's just disquieting. Especially when you consider that there is a real sex slavery trade in which real children, always from impoverished segments of society, are sold to middle class white men for sex in rooms just like that.

I'm sure someone will flame me in response. [dons fireproof suit]


Oh, you betcha.



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(Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2006-09-26 07:28 pm UTC (link)
Bzuh?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

A sick mind sees sick things. - [info]rachelmap, 2006-09-26 07:40 pm UTC
Re: A sick mind sees sick things. - coreopsis, 2006-09-26 09:13 pm UTC
Re: A sick mind sees sick things. - [info]rachelmap, 2006-09-27 02:48 am UTC

[info]llama_treats
2006-09-26 07:30 pm UTC (link)
The fireproof suit...it does NOTHING!

(Reply to this)


[info]braisinhussy
2006-09-26 07:30 pm UTC (link)
Whoops, I just submitted the same thing.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-09-27 09:54 am UTC

[info]ruby_tuesday
2006-09-26 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Wasn't lovecrafty the one who went around accusing other people of being racist while making slightly racist assumptions his/herself? Or am I thinking of someone else?

At any rate, [info]lovecrafty is certainly much with the tl;dr today.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-09-26 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 01:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-09-27 04:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-09-27 04:52 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 05:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-09-28 01:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-28 10:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-09-27 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-09-27 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-09-27 01:56 am UTC

[info]dracolovesharry
2006-09-26 07:42 pm UTC (link)
::eyebrow::

Was I the only one who saw it as Superman sharing his secret identity?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ghostmaster, 2006-09-26 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dracolovesharry, 2006-09-26 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2006-09-27 02:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]slackeremeritus, 2006-09-26 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dracolovesharry, 2006-09-26 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]harrylovesron, 2006-09-26 09:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dracolovesharry, 2006-09-26 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arionhunter, 2006-09-26 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2006-09-26 11:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]female_fanboy, 2006-09-27 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]feelingcold, 2006-09-29 05:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vengeance_bean, 2006-09-27 12:38 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 02:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darsynia, 2006-09-27 12:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 02:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]amyheartssiroc, 2006-09-27 04:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2006-09-27 07:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrrah, 2006-09-27 09:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mael, 2006-09-28 02:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kami, 2006-09-28 11:33 pm UTC

[info]redcoast
2006-09-26 07:48 pm UTC (link)
When you said "opening his shirt," I expected something like this.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2006-09-26 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2006-09-26 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]redcoast, 2006-09-26 07:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tangentialone, 2006-09-27 04:43 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-10-16 03:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tangentialone, 2006-10-17 12:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ghostmaster, 2006-09-26 07:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2006-09-26 09:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 01:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-09-27 10:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]samhatesyou, 2006-09-26 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-09-27 02:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]onaga, 2006-09-27 03:18 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-28 07:08 am UTC

[info]blackflag
2006-09-26 07:50 pm UTC (link)
Geez, if she's really studying to become a laywer/whatever, and her arguements descend into 'Hm. Go fuck yourself,' I don't want her representing me for anything. What a nong.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]coyotegirl, 2006-09-26 08:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2006-09-26 11:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]southerngaelic, 2006-09-27 12:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackflag, 2006-09-27 01:28 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackflag, 2006-09-28 11:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scootermcgaffin, 2006-09-27 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackflag, 2006-09-27 01:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]saintedsin, 2006-09-29 05:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackflag, 2006-09-30 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]saintedsin, 2006-09-30 08:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackflag, 2006-09-30 08:49 am UTC

[info]ghostmaster
2006-09-26 07:52 pm UTC (link)
Admitedly I have spent far too much time contemplatingt hese issues, as I'm in school pursuing a Criminal Justice degree and have focused primarily on special victims work, which makes me a bit more sensitive to these sorts of images than the average person.

Isn't there a law about this?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]missdaisy, 2006-09-26 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mookie, 2006-09-26 11:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinneas, 2006-09-27 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 05:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinneas, 2006-09-27 05:33 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 06:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kinneas, 2006-09-27 06:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ayezur, 2006-09-28 04:43 pm UTC
Needs Glasses
[info]lydiapinkham
2006-09-26 07:54 pm UTC (link)
Lovecrafty obviously misread "My real name is Clark" as "What are your thoughts on yaoi?"

(Reply to this)


[info]rotten_fish
2006-09-26 07:55 pm UTC (link)
gip, gip, baby.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-26 07:56 pm UTC
errhh, typo! - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-09-26 08:00 pm UTC
Re: errhh, typo! - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-26 08:02 pm UTC
Re: errhh, typo! - [info]southernbangel, 2006-09-26 09:22 pm UTC
Re: errhh, typo! - [info]tehrin, 2006-09-26 10:21 pm UTC
Re: errhh, typo! - [info]microclimate, 2006-09-26 10:57 pm UTC
Re: errhh, typo! - [info]m_butterfly, 2006-09-27 10:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2006-09-26 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ghostmaster, 2006-09-26 08:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wrongly_amused, 2006-09-26 08:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]steelneko, 2006-09-27 05:31 am UTC

[info]lerefuge
2006-09-26 08:01 pm UTC (link)
Wow, those strips are very disapointing on the subtext, and God knows I see buttsex subtext everywhere. Blah.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-09-26 08:03 pm UTC (link)
I mean, okay, obviously it's not what it looks like

I think quite the contrary, it's exactly what it looks like, Clark sharing his secret identity with a poor homeless child. It's a very sweet scene, and Superman was my childhood hero, so I must confess I got little teary seeing it.
That person's got to have a really dirty mind to twist even the sweetest, most innocent, touching scene into child molestation, what a perv.

luisa_f@lj

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oxydosic, 2006-09-26 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kami, 2006-09-28 11:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-10-16 04:03 pm UTC

[info]oxydosic
2006-09-26 08:05 pm UTC (link)
Um..uh...WTF????

(Reply to this)


[info]go_shirly
2006-09-26 08:11 pm UTC (link)
My favorite quote from the whole thing:
Well, sure, then that becomes obviously sexual. But that's [not] what he's saying. You might as well say "Replace the art with a scene of Superman raping Billy and the pederasty becomes clear!"

It conjures up the image of an irate, J. Jonah Jameson-like comic editor screaming at the artist: "What the hell is this crap? A scene of father-like mentoring and guidance? ALL WRONG. Clark should be taking off his pants, too! I want the whole thing redone by 7:00, and do it right this time!"

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 08:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 08:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindset, 2006-09-26 09:20 pm UTC
OMG that site is BRILLIANT! - [info]puipui, 2006-09-26 10:02 pm UTC
Re: OMG that site is BRILLIANT! - [info]shakeandbake, 2006-09-26 10:06 pm UTC
Re: OMG that site is BRILLIANT! - [info]mindset, 2006-09-26 10:17 pm UTC
Re: OMG that site is BRILLIANT! - [info]microclimate, 2006-09-26 10:23 pm UTC
Re: OMG that site is BRILLIANT! - [info]mindset, 2006-09-26 11:03 pm UTC
Re: OMG that site is BRILLIANT! - [info]puipui, 2006-09-27 06:15 am UTC
Re: OMG that site is BRILLIANT! - [info]sgtgeorgecarter, 2006-09-27 02:54 pm UTC
a propos of nothing... - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 04:08 am UTC
Re: a propos of nothing... - [info]mindset, 2006-09-27 05:32 am UTC
Re: a propos of nothing... - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 06:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2006-09-27 02:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashenmote, 2006-09-28 10:00 am UTC

[info]xero_sky
2006-09-26 08:22 pm UTC (link)
It somehow distresses me when other people turn out to have dirtier minds than I do. :(

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]monsley, 2006-09-26 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]drworm, 2006-09-26 11:04 pm UTC

[info]slackeremeritus
2006-09-26 08:31 pm UTC (link)
If any molestation comes out of this, obviously Billy brought it on himself. He pulled the "Reveal Secret Identity" card first and tempted Superman with his young, nubile body. Clark was just accepting the invitation.

Or, lovecrafty, you could just see it for exactly what it is: Captain Marvel/Billy needed someone he could trust; he needed a friend. Superman/Clark answered the call.

*fetches paper towels*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 06:42 am UTC

[info]entrenous88
2006-09-26 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I liked [info]lovecrafty trotting out her almost-a-Criminal-Justice-lawyer status to explain her viewpoint.

So basically she fights for truth, justice, and the American way, while Superman is clearly fighting to get inside Billy's pants.

(Reply to this)


[info]wrongly_amused
2006-09-26 08:57 pm UTC (link)
Well, of course the scene reflects intimacy - Superman is opening his heart to Billy, bringing himself down to the level of vulnerability to a child. Of course, a reader with proper reading comprehension skill would be able to interpret that the nature of that inimtacy is hardly perverted.

But I think we can accurately say [info]lovecrafty has yet to master this basic capability.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-09-26 08:59 pm UTC (link)
Ahaha, I at first thought you meant that Superman was opening Billy's shirt. Now that I can see as disturbing. Superman showing his super-identity hardly qualifies as pedophilia.

On another note, I like stolisomancer's comment: This is, after all, a community where people tend to equate two men standing in the same panel with their having sex.

Clara

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]empy, 2006-09-26 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - coreopsis, 2006-09-26 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jerel, 2006-09-27 12:17 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-27 12:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-09-27 01:39 am UTC
(no subject) - nam_jai, 2006-09-26 10:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rachelmap, 2006-09-27 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]okalintu, 2006-09-26 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mookie, 2006-09-26 11:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2006-09-27 12:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]onaga, 2006-09-27 03:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-09-27 04:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]onaga, 2006-09-27 05:05 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-09-26 09:00 pm UTC (link)
I mean, okay, obviously it's not what it looks like - but how could the artist, writer, editor and others involved not see what it looks like.

lol what

Also, hentai is "quasi" pornography? How many more tentacle-filled orifices would make it full-blooded porn?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]misakichi, 2006-09-26 09:13 pm UTC

[info]dawnswalker
2006-09-26 09:02 pm UTC (link)
"This isn't the 1950s, were people were genuinely naive enough to not see the subtext of images like these."

Or maybe comic book fans in the 1950s weren't oversensitive lunatics who were determined to blow each and every image way out of proportion?

...They left that to the McCarthyites.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-09-26 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quettaser, 2006-09-26 11:12 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-09-26 09:09 pm UTC (link)
So wait.

Now scans_daily is saying there ISN'T slashy subtext in everything?

I'm confused.

(Reply to this)


[info]itsirtou
2006-09-26 09:12 pm UTC (link)
"You think having a fully grown man sit on a bed with a preteen child and unbutton his shirt is meant to show a big brother relationship? What kind of house did you grow up in?"

Just...wow. I think the only thing to say in this situation is "Okay!"

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2006-09-27 12:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]semirecluse, 2006-09-27 05:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlebitca, 2006-09-27 09:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kami, 2006-09-28 11:57 pm UTC

[info]itsirtou
2006-09-26 09:16 pm UTC (link)
Also, have we seen lovecrafty here before?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-09-26 09:25 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-09-26 09:24 pm UTC (link)
I'm a grown up, I'm open-minded and liberal, and it doesn't bother me one bit if Spider-Man and Venom's relationship occasionally seems to make references to gay rough trade (something I had never realized utnil joining this forum. Thanks?). Also, the aggressor in that subcontextual relationship is...Venom, the villian, the deranged psychopathic killing monster.

. . .for some reason, I hear this being said in either Ted Stevens' voice or Donald Rumsfeld's.

-fledermaus

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-09-27 01:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2006-09-27 02:34 am UTC


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