Entry tags:

dungeons and dragons, history wank, pirates vs. ninjas

You Don't Know the History of Pirates and Ninjas! I do!
Fabletown, the official forums of my monthly comic obsession: Fables, is a pretty decorous place.

Or it was, until someone started a pirate vs. ninja poll in the off-topic forum. This irreverent attitude seriously offended Lang Caul who started a new thread to complain that people were being disrespectful to the true history of pirates and ninjas.

"Or when people make a novel about ninjas but ignore lots of historical and political matters that were relevant to ninjas. And pirates, too. And then people think, wow, ninjas were so cool, they did whatever they wanted to, and they had their own tribes and stuff, wow... and pirates were all fun and games, steal stuff, rob from people, have fun, wow, that's so cool... It's great to learn something about history, I'm glad I read this book or watched this movie!"

His first post:

"All kidding aside, Japan was actually a real place, and as far as I know still is. There actually were people called samurai, and so forth...

I don't know about this attitude where "anything goes" in fantasy. Where did it come from? Why do people think they can change anything in history, or mythology, to suit the needs of their stories or movies or whatever? It really distresses me."

The poor man was further distressed by the other posters telling him they'll change whatever they like when they feel like it, so please shut up.

"Changing things isn't the problem. It's that people actually believe that the way the things are portrayed was the truth that's the problem. And the authors don't do anything to set the readers straigh.

Like when a fantasy author uses something from Norse mythology, or loosely based on it... but then changes it around totally, and people say, wow, I'm reading Norse mythology."

And within two posts, they get into the Da Vinci Code, and whether people know Jurassic Park is fiction. Everyone wanks in response, but Lang outdoes them all, with paragraph after paragraph of noble concern for the way our vast cultural heritage is being destroyed by action movies and fantasy books. When asked why he's a fan of a comic that mashes together all kinds of fairy tales and legends, he has a defence ready to hand:

"People see movies and assume that since they're so realistic they must be reality. People read books and think that since they sound so informed the authors must know what they're talking about. In this day and age, people only look on the surface of things.

That's why comics don't really count in this discussion. Because everyone knows comics aren't real. Even the most uneducated person in this country could tell you people don't have superpowers or save the world from aliens. But when an author goes out of his way to make something seem so authentic that it comes off as real, that's when the harm occurs."

And so on. The thread might still be going, except for what happened next in the On-Topic Forum. Some innocent soul stated that some of the characters in Fables reminded them of Dungeon and Dragons. Says Lang Caul:

"While I can understand the fun others get from it, D&D is the primary cause of what's wrong with America's understanding of folklore and mythology. With this in mind, I think it would be a mistake to put Fables, a series that encourages readers to go back to the original folklore, in such D&D trappings."

Groans from the other posters. Someone jokes that the real problem is Harry Potter. Another tongue-in-cheekishly nominates Rocky and Bullwinkle's Fractured Fairytales as just as dangerous. Lang Caul will have nothing of that. It's all Tolkien's fault, really!

"Oh, wow, no way. D&D was supplanting folklore and myths far before Potter, although granted Potter's a little bit more popular.

The way this went, it kind of originated from Tolkien. Tolkien was really the first to actually "make up" myths and legends. However, don't get me wrong, I love Tolkien and have nothing but respect for the man. He knew what he was doing. He knew probably more than anyone else alive at his time about the English languages, and about English and Germanic folklore. So when he "made up" his myths and legends, he did so with a thourough understanding of the real myths and legends. And thus, his work was well-informed and still retained much of the original meaning of his source work.

Later on, people decided they liked the idea of taking folkloric and mythic concepts and changing them to fit their creative ideas. However, they did not have the knowledge and background which Tolkien did, so their work completely distorted the original folklore and myths, losing much if not all of its original significance.

That's just a small quote from his lengthy post on the matter.

Says the mod, Kelsi Parker:

" fine. Cross out 'Fractured Fairy Tales' and stick in '1950s B movies'.

As there's been a noticable trend in the debates you start, I'll say this up front:

Her post includes a Shawn of the Dead lineart with Modbat written on it.

Lang Caul: Wow.

Wow.

OK, this is fucking ridiculous. I'm trying to have an intellectual discussion here, one that I think is not only relevant but probably of interest to those who come here.

I mean, this is a fucking FABLES message board! If anyone should be interested in folklore and mythology, you guys should be! I mean, come on! What the hell is the problem with this discussion?

Not only that, but Kelsi Parker is an internet fascist. The day she was given moderator status was the day my departure from this board was an eventual certainty. The VERY FIRST POST I MADE here, instead of welcoming me to the board or being, I don't know, POLITE??? NO! She told me in no uncertain tone that my post was USELESS. Even when I politely ignored her rudeness and replied that it was of interest to me and might also be to others, she STILL shot me down mercilessly! Since that day, she's done nothing but criticize my posts and insult me. Just because you've been here from day one, just because you have more posts than most people here, doesn't mean you have some kind of seniority right to act like you're better than everyone else here.

On that note, I'm leaving this forum, which will probably be welcome to a few of you here. I guess an intellectual examination of folklore, fairy tales, and mythology is both unwelcome and inappropriate here. I'll remember that when I consider reccomending others here. Frankly, I'm disappointed. I expected more from the readers of Fables. It just seems like with a book like this, the readership might be a little more scholarly in their interests, or at least the type that would give a damn about ACTUAL FOLKLORE. At the very least I didn't expect to get shot down with every post I made.

Oh, please feel free to ban me or something, Kelsi. I won't be coming back. Of course, you'll probably delete this post, like the fascist you are. You musn't allow others to submit criticism of your mod performance. You've got the mod bat. You'd better ban me before others read this.

Sayou nara - "If it must be so."

Namárië, Lang Caul, Namárië.

ETA: A Fabletown mod complains that this report is naming real names. Ironically, "Lang Caul" is "long cool" in Robbie-Burns style Scottish dialect. Not a real name at all.