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well, at least she's a good-looking spy ([info]blue_penguin) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2006-11-03 15:50:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:thoughts on yaoi

My Thoughts On Yaoi
When you've got an LJ community with "rants" anywhere in the name, you can be pretty sure it's going to bring the wank. [info]clamp_rants is no exception (although on further inspection it proves to be pretty reasonable and non-wanky for a ranting community).

It does have some wank, however, such as the following:

First, [info]von_questenberg makes a post telling yaoi fans that they wouldn't like their favorite yaoi pairings anymore if one or both of the characters were genderswitched and the pairing became m/f or f/f. She also complains about the whole "there must be one seme and one uke in every pairing and no one ever switches!" phenomenon, saying that it's heterosexist (which is not a bad point, in my opinion, but that's neither here nor there).

Needless to say, the yaoi fans do not take kindly to being told what they do and don't like, although some of them do take the OP's side. Some pretty stupid comments are made. There is much missing of points all around.

On the topic of the complaint about the seme/uke stereotype, a poster gets up in arms about the "heterosexist" comment, saying that not all heterosexual relationships fit into rigid gender roles either. She then complains about how no one likes her seme!Subaru pr0n, and finishes by saying "but why discuss the sexual behaviour of ink?" Disregarding the fact that, you know, she just has. A lot of people get pissed off at her, too, and there is more wank, which devolves into the same-old same-old "Yaoi is not a realistic depiction of gay men!" / "Well, it's not supposed to be!" shouting match.

Next, someone points out the difference between the definitions "gender" vs. "sex", since "gender" is the word that was used in the original post. Her conversation with [info]von_questenberg isn't exactly wanky, but it's pretty tl;dr.

There are many more tl;dr comments, but my eyes are beginning to glaze over, so.



(Post a new comment)


sockpuppet_rat
2006-11-03 11:45 pm UTC (link)
They're all so...earnest about it. It's CLAMP, people! The group that has one guy canonically refer to himself as both 'Big Kitty' and 'Mommy'. How can you take that seriously?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]blue_penguin
2006-11-03 11:48 pm UTC (link)
Fandom will take anything seriously, even manga by mangaka who were clearly on crack while writing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jerel, 2006-11-04 02:02 am UTC

[info]deerlike
2006-11-03 11:49 pm UTC (link)
Not to mention, lordy, the outfits Subaru wears. At Hokuto's persuasion, but still. *g*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-11-04 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 01:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-11-04 01:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 08:31 am UTC
Icon! - [info]dark_puck, 2006-11-04 04:08 pm UTC
Re: Icon! - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 11:44 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-11-04 09:41 pm UTC (link)
IT IS THE BEST EXAMPLE OF CHARACTERIZATION EVARS.

...Well, it did do a good job of pushing his image of being one of CLAMP's gayest characters ever. Which is really saying something.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]pyrrah
2006-11-03 11:49 pm UTC (link)
Oh dear, I'm now having flashbacks to the rabid old X fandom wars. I feel old.

One memory that just wouldn't go away was the fanpoodles squeeing over the Seishirou/Subaru pairing (24/16), and how hot it was, then turning around to rant about how sick and boring the Kusanagi/Yuzuriha (21/14) was. Anyone daring to point out that the pairing wasn't as popular because it wasn't a) as gay and b) as pretty got their head promptly bitten off.

Good times.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]deerlike
2006-11-03 11:51 pm UTC (link)
I'm now having flashbacks to the rabid old X fandom wars.

Subaru/Kamui vs Fuuma/Kamui, UGH.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


sockpuppet_rat
2006-11-03 11:52 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad I missed that! Seishirou/Subaru, meh. Kusanagi/Yuzuriha, cute. But then, I thought Kusanagi was kind of hot.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]varkias, 2006-11-04 01:13 am UTC

[info]rarirurero
2006-11-04 12:35 am UTC (link)
Dreams of Sakura board, perhaps?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pyrrah, 2006-11-04 12:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rarirurero, 2006-11-04 02:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]silverwind, 2006-11-04 03:30 pm UTC

sharonapple
2006-11-04 02:50 am UTC (link)
Wait wait... people ranted about Kusanagi/Yuzuriha being sick, when Seishirou rammed his fist through Subaru's sister and Subaru fishes Seishirou's eye out of his still-warm corpse and shoves it in his conveniently empty eye socket?

..Okay!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ayezur, 2006-11-04 03:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2006-11-04 04:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rekall, 2006-11-04 04:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackhat, 2006-11-06 05:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-08 05:09 am UTC
(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-11-04 04:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrrah, 2006-11-04 06:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-11-04 06:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 08:51 am UTC
(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-11-04 09:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 09:10 am UTC
(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-11-04 09:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 09:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2006-11-04 05:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackhat, 2006-11-06 05:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 11:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kasra, 2006-11-04 06:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-05 04:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]palefire, 2006-11-04 05:09 am UTC

[info]mochibuni
2006-11-04 09:02 am UTC (link)
I'm glad I stayed out of CLAMP series fandoms. I remember venturing into the CCS one, and everyone throwing a fit because someone called Yukito Yuki and not Yukito.

I fled.

One wonders why I didn't apply that logic to Harry Potter and Sailor Moon.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 09:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mochibuni, 2006-11-04 09:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 09:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 11:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarcastic_elf, 2006-11-04 04:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 08:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarcastic_elf, 2006-11-04 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-05 12:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nineofdiamonds, 2006-11-05 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mochibuni, 2006-11-05 07:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nineofdiamonds, 2006-11-05 07:34 pm UTC

[info]dottiness
2006-11-03 11:56 pm UTC (link)
Even though this is kind of old, okay!

*wears a certified wanker badge*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-04 12:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dottiness, 2006-11-04 12:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-04 12:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sumeragi, 2006-11-04 12:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-04 12:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dottiness, 2006-11-04 12:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]palefire, 2006-11-04 05:11 am UTC

[info]lollercoaster
2006-11-04 12:24 am UTC (link)
yeesh... looking at the comments over there... I feel like such an unfashionable fogey. I LIKE defined seme/uke roles, I LIKE it when the seme is the older, taller, more masculine one (weepy girly ukes suck, though). It serves a purpose for my psyche- I find it very satisfying.

if I wanted equal, politically correct pairings I would go read something else.

and these are my thought on yaoi.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pyrrah, 2006-11-04 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lollercoaster, 2006-11-04 02:03 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-04 09:09 pm UTC
MY thoughts on yaoi! - [info]rarirurero, 2006-11-04 12:35 am UTC
Re: MY thoughts on yaoi! - [info]lollercoaster, 2006-11-04 01:49 am UTC
Re: MY thoughts on yaoi! - [info]rarirurero, 2006-11-04 03:00 am UTC
Re: MY thoughts on yaoi! - [info]chikane, 2006-11-04 10:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-11-04 01:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shadowed_blade, 2006-11-04 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-11-04 06:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shadowed_blade, 2006-11-04 08:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aeanagwen, 2006-11-04 02:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 03:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aeanagwen, 2006-11-04 08:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 08:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aeanagwen, 2006-11-04 10:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-11-04 06:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aeanagwen, 2006-11-04 09:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]caoilte, 2006-11-04 06:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aeanagwen, 2006-11-04 09:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-05 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]belafarinrod, 2006-11-04 11:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkbunny, 2006-11-04 04:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-07 12:53 am UTC

[info]churri
2006-11-04 12:38 am UTC (link)
Eh. Yaoi's like the Harlequin romances your mom buys, only with two cocks (or "throbbing totems of manhood") instead of one. Realistic, no. Fun, yes.

Why can't we all just enjoy our porn in peace?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]heddychaa, 2006-11-04 04:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]churri, 2006-11-04 10:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oxydosic, 2006-11-04 11:41 pm UTC

[info]sadisticferret
2006-11-04 01:59 am UTC (link)
Who cares if the porn is realistic or not? It's porn! Realism isn't the point! Anyway, surely there's enough variety out there to satisfy everyone.

Also, I seem to have inadvertently corrupted my best friend to the yaoi lifestyle or whatever. We were browsing in the manga section of Books a Million (well, I was; she was just politely waiting for me) and all of a sudden she points to a Loveless manga and says, "Wow, those guys are pretty. Very, very pretty." And I explained yaoi to her and she got this thoughtful look on her face, then went to stare at the cover of Antique Bakery. I may have created a monster.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chaootaku, 2006-11-04 02:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]heddychaa, 2006-11-04 04:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kasra, 2006-11-04 06:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkbunny, 2006-11-04 05:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2006-11-04 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkbunny, 2006-11-04 09:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2006-11-04 10:54 pm UTC

[info]agent_hyatt
2006-11-04 02:48 am UTC (link)
(although on further inspection it proves to be pretty reasonable and non-wanky for a ranting community)

Which is very surprising, given the mod's habit of posting wank-bait topics every week. Three weeks in a row discussing characters and pairings hated and loved by fandom and individuals, and no wank? How on earth is that possible?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-04 03:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]palefire, 2006-11-04 05:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2006-11-04 03:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackhat, 2006-11-06 06:03 pm UTC

[info]aerobot
2006-11-04 03:42 am UTC (link)
When you like a male/male pairing, part of the reason you like it is because it's male/male. It's not being honest with yourself to say that you'd like the pairing as much if it were male/female or female/female.

Wow, apparently someone's psychic!

If a particular character were female rather than male (or vice versa), the character would be a completely different character. The relationship wouldn't be the same.

Uh, and that would REALLY depend on the series. Hell, in my fandom, some male charcters were considered to be female due to translation/design problems. "Oh hey, Harpuia is actually a guy." "Oh, okay." Notice how my perception of that character didn't change one bit. Because if you're a sentient android whose 'gender' is merely aesthetics, who gives a shit?

Why does NO ONE consider the robot yaoi? ;_;

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-11-04 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]invaderice, 2006-11-04 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-11-04 06:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iris, 2006-11-04 07:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-11-04 07:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2006-11-04 10:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-11-04 02:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2006-11-04 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-11-05 02:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2006-11-05 07:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-07 12:59 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-05 10:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]empyrealdragon, 2006-11-04 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2006-11-05 02:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]empyrealdragon, 2006-11-05 02:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-11-05 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]empyrealdragon, 2006-11-05 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2006-11-05 03:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-06 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]empyrealdragon, 2006-11-06 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-07 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]empyrealdragon, 2006-11-06 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-07 12:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]empyrealdragon, 2006-11-07 02:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-07 03:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]empyrealdragon, 2006-11-07 04:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-07 07:01 am UTC
*perks up* - [info]seiberwing, 2006-11-05 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-06 08:00 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-11-04 04:06 am UTC (link)
I'd like to ask Neil P. Harris what his thoughts on yaoi are.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 04:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-04 04:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 04:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-04 05:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2006-11-04 09:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-04 10:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rekall, 2006-11-04 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 05:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 05:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rekall, 2006-11-04 05:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 08:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 08:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 08:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 09:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarai, 2006-11-04 04:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]caoilte, 2006-11-04 06:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 08:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2006-11-04 08:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rekall, 2006-11-05 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarai, 2006-11-05 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-04 11:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarai, 2006-11-05 02:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarai, 2006-11-05 03:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-05 12:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rekall, 2006-11-05 12:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarai, 2006-11-05 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarai, 2006-11-05 03:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rekall, 2006-11-05 03:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarai, 2006-11-05 06:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-05 01:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rekall, 2006-11-05 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2006-11-05 12:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-05 12:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-05 04:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deerlike, 2006-11-05 12:58 pm UTC

[info]shun_mcdaddy
2006-11-04 04:21 am UTC (link)
I wonder what they'll make of me only loving Yuki being uke to Haru at all times, no matter what?

Or that Daisuke should get gangbanged by anyone(Except Claire)??

Or that Toboe is only defined uke in Wolf's Rain for me because I think he's the only youngest uke I would approve of???

Because I really hate defined roles.:/

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 08:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2006-11-04 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2006-11-04 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shun_mcdaddy, 2006-11-05 05:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-11-06 07:33 pm UTC
*headdesk*
(Anonymous)
2006-11-04 05:41 am UTC (link)
I should have known this would end up here. And it deserves to. We'll play nicer next time.

-VonQuestenberg

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: *headdesk* - [info]slwatson, 2006-11-04 07:20 pm UTC

[info]hallidae
2006-11-04 08:41 am UTC (link)
I'm a bad yaoi fangirl, apparently, since I've been having some fun toying with the concept of Havoc transmuted into a woman as of late.

I think my only major annoyance in yaoi fandom (besides the prerequisites of seme/uke issues) is when a writer/artist/whoever only ever does the uke as an actual to God woman, boobs, vagina and all. And doujinshi circles aren't exempt from that annoyance. 'Cause it's one thing to mess around with the idea for the hell of it, but it's a totally other other to do it because you can't bring yourself to write/draw two characters with the same genitals getting it on, for whatever reason, be it the fact that you can't/won't learn how to do it or "they'd be so cute together, but gay is icky!" (some sections of the Naruto fandom, looking at you on that second one. Stop ignoring that Haku is a boy, dammit)

::looks down, sighs:: I'll go get a towel.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]criticalcricket, 2006-11-05 12:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-05 12:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]criticalcricket, 2006-11-05 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-05 12:45 am UTC

[info]mochibuni
2006-11-04 08:59 am UTC (link)
I like it when [info]von_questenberg decides what personal conflicts [info]les_lenne has gone through.

However, at least they're nice.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]apapazukamori, 2006-11-12 11:36 pm UTC

[info]braisinhussy
2006-11-04 06:24 pm UTC (link)
they wouldn't like their favorite yaoi pairings anymore if one or both of the characters were genderswitched and the pairing became m/f or f/f.

Oh man, flashbacks to the oceans of spooge over Akito in Fruits Basket.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-04 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-04 09:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amberwaves, 2006-11-04 11:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-05 12:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-05 04:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-05 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-05 10:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lanjelin, 2006-11-05 03:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-05 04:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lanjelin, 2006-11-05 04:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2006-11-05 05:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelschuu, 2006-11-05 09:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2006-11-06 05:07 am UTC

[info]oxydosic
2006-11-04 07:51 pm UTC (link)
Ow...brain hurty. God, I just want to make the pretty men do naughty things...JUST LET ME HAVE MY PRETTY MEN DOING NAUGHTY THINGS.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-11-05 01:42 am UTC

[info]seiberwing
2006-11-05 03:50 am UTC (link)
I'm reminded of someone who kept talking about their plans to write an AU where Rattrap was female.

Me: But wouldn't it be the same anyway?
Him: But she would flirt with people.
Me: He doesn't do that anyway? :p
Him: But then Dinobot would get a crush on her and it would be different because she'd be girlier.
Me: A gender change wouldn't make Rattrap any different. Just leave him as is and slash them anyway.
Him: But slash is gross!

*facepalm*

(Reply to this)


[info]blackhat
2006-11-06 06:20 pm UTC (link)
You're completely discounting gender

I had no idea gender was available at Wal-Mart.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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