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	feenix 2003-07-27 03:50 am UTC (link)
	The hell? It's just an ICON. And it's a plain crop which I can do in 20 seconds of working with Photoshop. If it were something with work involved, I'd understand. This...no. (Reply to this)

	andraste101 2003-07-27 04:30 am UTC (link)
	I really don't get what the big deal is either, especially if it's just a cropped picture that anyone can do. It's something else entirely if you put your own text on it, or do something to it that isn't on the original, but otherwise? Um, no. Cropped photos do not an artist make, sorry, Charlie. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	cimorene111 2003-07-27 11:50 pm UTC (link)
	because it's not tagged or written on doesn't mean a photo has only been cropped. in fact, it's the whole 'it's just an icon' argument that is really wanky. stealing is a very simple issue: don't do it. wow, class! we're done! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

andraste101
2003-07-28 12:10 am UTC (link)

I don't remember saying 'it's just an icon', but I agree that stealing icons is wrong. However, I have seen other people with icons cropped from the same photo that I've cropped icons from, does that mean I'm stealing their idea just because we're using the same picture? Just recently I saw a cropped photo that was *exactly* like one I had just done but hadn't yet posted. I didn't steal mine from her and I know she didn't steal hers from me, but I deleted mine anyways because I don't want there to be any problems arising from it.

I agree that if anything is done to an icon to make it different from the original picture then the maker has a right to be pissy if it's taken and used without permission. But if all they did was crop a popular photo and expect the world to see it as *theirs*, then I think they're living in a fantasy world. *Someone* out there is going to think the original is cool, too, and cut it down for themselves. *That's* not stealing.

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cimorene111
2003-07-28 12:17 am UTC (link)

well, no, it isn't; but people get given this argument when that isn't all they've done.

breathe_again wasn't being at all wanky, and she wasn't using a popular photo, but a screencap which she made herself, and manipulated.

the *assumption* that an unmarked photographic icon is peanuts to make is naive.

and also, it's usually possible to tell if someone's just used the same photograph. if it wasn't really small, the odds of the cropping being identical ARE really small.

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andraste101
2003-07-28 01:22 am UTC (link)

Not having seen the original CA icon (hell, I can't even do a decent search at that headache called mtv.com), I really can't comment on what the icon maker did to make it original, so I won't even argue the point. 'Tis yours. The thief *should* take hers down, though I don't see how anyone can make her, outside of spamming the hell out of her journal, which is a whole 'nother can of wank all on its own.

As for the last bit, I think the odds of finding the same cropped icon coming from different sources is getting smaller and smaller, what with the rising popularity of making them. Especially if it's of popular celebrities, though the one I saw that was so similar to mine came off of a model database, and it *was* the same crop of the same part of the pic. It was a sexy-ass photo so I'm not surprised someone else found it and used it, too. I just think that's going to be happening more often and we'll be seeing a glut of posts about icon thieves.

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quinctia
2003-07-28 07:29 am UTC (link)

Yeah, but most the time, we are talking about people cropping pictures from media that was never "theirs" to begin with, and many don't "credit" it.

My POV is coming from seeing icon making communities, where people will crop a bunch of screencaps from a show (screencaps AREN'T rocket science, sorry...there's only a few cases where it's hard to get the shot you want) or game, or use official art and pictures, and make 100x100 "bases." These people expect to get "credit" if someone else ever uses them. (However, since I see people who make icons that look a lot like mine, and I cropped my own and never made a "base" available, there's not really anyway to track that sort of thing.)

So icon makers, in general, are just wanky. They'll crop fanart and never credit the artist, but then have a stroke if someone didn't credit their "base." I think that is probably the source of people's "it's just an icon" woes.

Me? I often screencap, resize, and animate my icons. Anyone can have them. I just think people using one that is a drawing of ME (like the one above this post) is retarded. Aside from that, free to take. A few minutes of my time in making the icon isn't worth the time it takes to even ask someone if they're using one of mine. *shrug*

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cimorene111
2003-07-28 08:28 am UTC (link)

well, SOME icon-makers will use fan art without permission or credit, SOME icon-makers demand credit for everything, some only for custom icons, and some not at all. some people, like me, only get miffed if someone else takes their icons and offers them in an icon community claiming to have made them.

but lots of people, whether they have MADE icons or not, have issues about the icons they keep for their personal use--liking them to be individual, representative, etc. if you've made it yourself i imagine seeing it stolen stings a bit more.

now, the wankiness of calling all icon-makers as a group 'wanky' aside, the issue here is a specific one. was wanky behavior involved in the above entry? hell, yes. was that behavior on the part of

breathe_again, who politely inquired the origin of a stolen icon when she saw it--without even making an accusation? no.

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feenix
2003-07-28 10:45 am UTC (link)

On replay:

Sex_tina (who deserves a TWS mention on the merit of her name alone) posts in x_a asking for people to join her ~~pointless, fruity, retarded~~ RPGs. Breathe_again pretty much does accuse her of stealing the icon by saying, "I'm really curious as to where you got your icon from since it looks exactly like mine. Care to share?" If you miss the hint (like xo_like_woah did), you need to be hit with a clue-by-four.

Sorry, maybe it's my perspective, but she did make an accusation.

As for everything else...I think both sides are wanky in this case. And the entire "But tagging it would have made the icon look like shit!" excuse is just as baseless as the "But I got it from a friend!" one. (I mean, I can figure out a way to put a name on the icon without ruining it. Or at least, initial it.)

But then, I'm pretty laissez-faire with my stuff.

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cimorene111
2003-07-28 06:03 pm UTC (link)

Sorry, maybe it's my perspective, but she did make an accusation.

she was pointing out that the icon appeared to have been stolen, but she wasn't ruling out the possibility that a friend sent the icon to whatserface. she was far politer than the norm.

And the entire "But tagging it would have made the icon look like shit!" excuse is just as baseless as the "But I got it from a friend!" one.

it's not an excuse, but an opinion. some people think tags don't make icons look like shit. some people think blinking neon green captions in bold tnr don't make icons look like shit. it's all in perspective. obviously

breathe_again speaks from the perspective of her own aesthetic judgement, and she has said that she tried to find a font for the initials and didn't like them. personally, i agree with her, as the icon is cropped very close and full of lines and the addition of an initial, if it was visible, would be bound to be distracting.

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feenix
2003-07-28 06:59 pm UTC (link)

It's all resourcefulness. (Call me on it if I'm getting any wankier than I am now.)

With that particular one, she could initial it small on the lower left. Turn down the opacity to around 50%, and it's set. I think.

And sometimes you have to lay the smackdown on people if you don't want them to steal your shit. You either have to make it explicit (by putting it in your userinfo or otherwise) or put "theft protection." I don't care with my icons, except for one or two--and with those, I have my own personal touch.

And, I will give her credit for not being anywhere as outrageous as certain wankers...but again, I smelled snark. Maybe I'm just really sensitive to the scent of it.

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cimorene111
2003-07-28 07:05 pm UTC (link)

but isn't snark entirely justified?

i find it hard to believe that making it small and/or partially transparent didn't occur to her. it's an obvious thought--and i wouldn't have wanted to do it either. i think it changes the feel of an icon. as for stealing, yeah, it's going to happen if you don't take huge measures to prevent it, but that doesn't mean you don't have the right to be upset when it happens. it's still wrong.

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<--me

feenix
2003-07-28 07:42 pm UTC (link)

but isn't snark entirely justified?

Depends. Snark's like a stationary bike--you feel like you've gone miles with it, but you've gotten nowhere in actuality.

And, I tend to read things as much snarkier than they actually are.

i find it hard to believe that making it small and/or partially transparent didn't occur to her. it's an obvious thought--and i wouldn't have wanted to do it either. i think it changes the feel of an icon. as for stealing, yeah, it's going to happen if you don't take huge measures to prevent it, but that doesn't mean you don't have the right to be upset when it happens. it's still wrong.

I agree that it's wrong to steal icons (and I personally wouldn't), but...screencaps, to me, feel sort of anonymous. (Like the one I'm using right now.)

And, admittedly, I was being tinhatty--I'd forgotten that she'd gone through every font on her system (by her account) to put text on it.

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	Re: <--me cimorene111 2003-07-28 09:50 pm UTC (link)
	granted, snark doesn't convince the people you're snarking at, but it feels GREAT. and you can't really say snarking at stealing/bitchiness/stupidity/wanky behavior is really unjustified, can you? i mean. here you are, in fandom_wank. (Reply to this)(Parent)

breathe_again
2003-07-28 11:15 pm UTC (link)

I appreciate the fact that you are so willing to tell me exactly how I could go about tagging my icon with my initials. However, yes, I have tried it - and I decided in the beginning that yes, it looked like shit afterwards. Of course that's my own opinion, but definitely mine to make.

And sometimes you have to lay the smackdown on people if you don't want them to steal your shit. You either have to make it explicit (by putting it in your userinfo or otherwise) or put "theft protection." I don't care with my icons, except for one or two--and with those, I have my own personal touch.

Wow, I'm curious as to how it's perfectly acceptable to do that, and yet people jump on my ass for asking someone to remove one of my icons.

And, I will give her credit for not being anywhere as outrageous as certain wankers...but again, I smelled snark. Maybe I'm just really sensitive to the scent of it.

Thanks for the credit, especially since I wasn't trying to be snarky - sometimes it just happens. I really could have been a lot "" worse, but why need to?

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	jerry_ds_girl 2003-07-27 04:40 am UTC (link)
	WHAT is with the whole "xtina" thing. Please don't tell me it's the whole x=Christ thing, and that her fans think she's God-like or something. Although I have this scary feeling that that's the truth. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	tempslut 2003-07-27 05:42 am UTC (link)
	Apparently, she has a tattoo that says "XTINA". Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody, but I think that's where the origin is. But even so, wouldn't be "Christtina"? It's like "Sk8ter Boi"--phonetically, the first word is "Skeightter", or "Skatter", if you will. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kerikeri 2003-07-27 06:29 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, it's a common mistake (or maybe it's purposeful because it looks better or something). People shorten "Christians" to "Xtians" when it really should be "Xians", too. Whenever I point that out to people, they call me a geek and tell me to shut up, though. ~~actually I get that reaction to most things I say~~ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

quinctia
2003-07-27 10:45 am UTC (link)

Well I think the whole thing has to do with the Greek letter that looks like an X (Chi, I believe, but don't quote me...mainly repeating something I read), so it's not actually X-ing out anything, it's just actually shortening the word. Now if you want to go into phonetic mumbo jumbo, it wouldn't actually work out as a complete replacement for Christ OR the first syllable in Christmas, but ya know how some things catch on...

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	sanguinary 2003-07-27 11:31 am UTC (link)
	Apparently she has Xtina tattooed on the back of her neck.Which lead to the following joke: Why does she have Xtina tattooed on the back of her neck? So whoever's fucking her will know her name. ::rimshot:: (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	jerry_ds_girl 2003-07-27 03:55 pm UTC (link)
	Ouch. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	madmouth 2003-07-28 10:06 pm UTC (link)
	you're bad, girlfriend. (Reply to this)(Parent)