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Cleolinda Jones ([info]cleolinda) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2007-11-01 14:19:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:dead gay headmaster, entitlement, fandom: harry potter, internet lawyers, think of the children, this is the wank that never ends

I posted the news story in [info]fandom_lounge originally, but it looks like the wank has arrived.

HP Lexicon wants to publish the site as a book.

JK Rowling and her lawyers are not pleased.

People are not pleased that JK Rowling is not pleased ("That fucking bitch.... But that's not good enough for Ms. Anne Rice, Jr. No. It has to be her way or the highway").

Over at Fandom Lounge, Defensive Mouse Is Defensive.

More importantly, Dumbledore is still gay.

More coming as it turns up. Because I'm pretty sure more is coming.

ETA: Ah, here we go. Points of interest, including a few from the FL comments:

[info]lidane: "The Leaky Cauldron article has updated with a timeline from JKR's side and more details about the lawsuit from their perspective."

"The complaint claims Warner Bros. and Rowling's representatives have been 'rebuffed and treated rudely' in their attempts to engage in a dialogue with RDR Books. 'For example, while claiming not to have the ability or time to respond to plaintiffs' multiple "cease and desist" letters because of a family tragedy, defendant instead was hawking foreign publishing rights to the infringing book in Germany,' the lawsuit said." (Pointed out by [info]peachespig.)

JKR was already asked once, and she refused permission. [info]westmoon: "I was told that she was asked. And quite clearly said no. It was talked about at the Prophecy convention in Toronto this summer, and apparently Steve was quite miffed that she refused to give him permission - as were some of the people to whom he related his tale of woe."

The Lexicon incorporates a good deal of text from Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them already? (Note: Permission may have been given for use on the website. ETA: ... Or maybe not.) In that context, note this passage from the Leaky Cauldron article: The suit also quotes a statement made by Steve Vander Ark on his site, that says, "...I don't give permission for people to just copy my work for their own use. Not only is that illegal, since everything in the Lexicon is copyrighted, it's also just plain wrong. Hey, I did all the work,I put in all the time, it's my skill and talent in this area which allowed the Lexicon to come into being. No one else has the right to use my work." The suit says, "this is exactly what Defendant is attempting to do here in connection with Ms. Rowling's work.

HP Lexicon: Anti-Ginny?

"Publisher Roger Rapoport, founder of RDR Books, said he believes the lawsuit is retaliation for a letter sent to Warner about a timeline used on Harry Potter DVDs."

And finally, as quoted in the LC article linked above: There is a substantial likelihood that defendants will continue to infringe unless halted permanently. Uh oh.

ETA 2: Aaaaand we have Godwin's law:

More from [info]peachespig: JKR gives her side on her site (" From what I understand, the proposed book is not criticism or review of Harry Potter's world, which would be entirely legitimate – neither I nor anybody connected with Harry Potter has ever tried to prevent such works being published. It is, we believe, a print version of the website, except now the information that was freely available to everybody is to become a commercial enterprise. It is not reasonable, or legal, for anybody, fan or otherwise, to take an author's hard work, re-organize their characters and plots, and sell them for their own commercial gain. However much an individual claims to love somebody else's work, it does not become theirs to sell") and the Lexicon's publisher achieves Godwin's ("Steve created this Web site as a volunteer project on his own time, and stopping a book of his own creation is not something that happens in America. It's something that could only happen in a police state").

ETA 3: It's for the children, y'all.

ETA 4: The publisher responds. THE CHILDREN, WHY WON'T YOU THINK OF THEM?! "Warner Bros. responded by rushing into court with this ill-tempered and badly thought out legal action. This wastes financial resources that Ms. Rowling could give to one of her favorite charities." Also, since y'all seem to be noting that the Lexicon has not contacted any of its non-Vander Ark contributors about a book: "It is an original book with a vast array of independently written scholarly articles."

ETA 5: From [info]pyratejenni: The best explanation of the legal situation that I've seen so far.



(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]magnolia_mama
2007-11-02 01:13 am UTC (link)
The statement on RDR's site about the suit is full of laughs. My favorite part: We are not sure why J.K. Rowling and Warner Bros. have decided to sue an independent small-town publisher Translation: WAAAAH! Quit picking on us, you big bullies!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]peachespig
2007-11-02 01:19 am UTC (link)
Thanks for the link! Personally, I prefer

Knowing that the Harry Potter novels have had a profound effect in encouraging literacy among young people around the world, we believe that publishing the website content in printed form will make its information available to underprivileged children and those in impoverished nations, who may have no access to computers or to the World Wide Web.

See? They're not making money off someone else's copyright, they're thinking of the children!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]magnolia_mama
2007-11-02 01:21 am UTC (link)
Attention starving children in Africa: for $24.95, you, too, can own this fabulous book!

Or, y'know, feed yourself for the next 3 months.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

The Lexicon will feed The Children (tm)
[info]shallow_kid
2007-11-02 07:36 am UTC (link)
They can print the book on hemp paper with soy ink and the underprivileged children can eat each page after they've committed it to memory. Everybody wins!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The Lexicon will feed The Children (tm)
dementedjen
2007-11-02 01:50 pm UTC (link)
Somebody watched Ugly Betty last week, didn't you? lol.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sparkysrevenge
2007-11-02 11:55 am UTC (link)
Yeah, do you know how much ramen and Easy Mac $24.95 will buy!?

Won't someone think of the college students?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]teaspensieve
2007-11-02 02:24 am UTC (link)
They're not making money off someone else's copyright, they're thinking of the children!

Is there a law that says anyone who brings up the "think of the children" argument automatically loses? Because if there isn't, there should be.

Human Rights 101
All people are entitled to:

1)Food
2)Shelter
3)Access to an unauthorized lexicon on Harry Potter

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]tangentialone
2007-11-02 03:20 am UTC (link)
Whaaaaaaaaat.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]darkrose
2007-11-02 05:42 am UTC (link)
This icon of mine is getting a workout with this wank.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]louifee
2007-11-02 09:04 am UTC (link)
Is that Captin Hook, from the latest Peter Pan movie?! eee!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]goblin
2007-11-02 04:33 pm UTC (link)
No. It is Lucius Malfoy, in disguise as a pirate in order to escape the ravening hordes of Slytherfen.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]louifee, 2007-11-02 11:07 pm UTC

[info]onaga
2007-11-02 01:22 am UTC (link)
In addition, countless magazine and newspaper articles have appeared about the Harry Potter books.

Unclear on the concept, exhibit A.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]evilsqueakers
2007-11-02 02:34 am UTC (link)
which has taken Mr. Vander Ark's copyrighted Harry Potter timeline and included it without permission among the Extra Features on three Harry Potter DVDs and intends to use it on the upcoming Harry Potter and Order of the Phoenix DVD.

I...what? How can he copyright already copyrighted material? Methinks this publisher graduated from Podunk U by the skin of his teeth.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]lidane
2007-11-02 02:48 am UTC (link)
*facepalm*

*sigh*

I'd rant about the idiocy of that statement, but I'd just give myself a migraine. What a tool.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2007-11-02 02:53 am UTC (link)
I know, right? I just felt stupider reading it. In fact, I had to read it three times to make sure I actually read it properly. And was sad when I realized I did.

I bet this yahoo drives on Atlanta roads. He's about as intelligent as some of the people around here. Oh, wait. I have family around Muskegon. You know, that explains it all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2007-11-02 04:08 am UTC

[info]khym_chanur
2007-11-02 04:35 am UTC (link)
Hmmmm, well, a timeline of events that happen in a novel is a set of facts about the novel, which aren't copyrightable. In general the arrangement of a set of facts can be copyrightable, but since there's only one way to order a timeline, that doesn't apply here. The words used to describe each even in a timeline are copyrightable, and are copyrighted to whoever wrote them, so if the exact words used in the Lexicon timeline were copied without permission that is a copyright violation.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]evilsqueakers
2007-11-02 04:38 am UTC (link)
But wouldn't the fact that it's based on someone else's work the copyrightable information? It's not like he created HP himself.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]lidane
2007-11-02 04:57 am UTC (link)
To me, that's the key.

She created the characters, names, places, spells, and so forth. She created the series of events. All he did was take them all and compile them in a particular order.

I really don't see how he could have any possible claim of copyright, especially since everything listed was already copyrighted by JKR.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2007-11-02 05:19 am UTC

[info]khym_chanur
2007-11-02 05:20 am UTC (link)
IANAL, but I don't think so. Otherwise a summary of a novel would fall under the copyright of the novelist rather than the summarizer.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2007-11-02 05:25 am UTC

[info]chibikaijuu
2007-11-02 06:19 am UTC (link)
That...really doesn't seem right, actually. JKR owns the characters, content, order of events, etc. The fact that they exist isn't owned by anybody. What's-his-face owns his original expression of the order of events, though I supposed technically not the specific names- but the parts of a timeline that fall under copyright are not names or events, but word order and visual arrangement.

Basically, dude did a bunch of original work that happened to involve reciting facts about someone else's work. Someone else connected to the someone else then took dude's work and used in a commercial product without offering compensation for the original work he did (like combing through the books to find all the relevant dates and doing the required math to place events accurately on the timeline). It's a very mild version of taking someone's fanfic of your work and publishing it without any agreement with the fanfic author, because you own the original. You don't own the fanfic. You own the original work and can attempt to stop people from writing fic based on copyright law, but you can't claim it as yours, because they have copyright over their own words.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2007-11-02 06:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2007-11-02 07:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2007-11-02 07:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2007-11-02 07:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2007-11-02 07:41 am UTC

[info]jocelyncs
2007-11-02 06:17 am UTC (link)
WHAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!

Can someone please point those people to the case of Pickett v. Prince?

Been tried. Infringer lost. You can't copyright a fanwork of someone else's copyright, whether it's a timeline of the books or an ankh-shaped guitar.

Next case.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2007-11-02 07:08 am UTC (link)
Ankh-shaped... wait, you mean THE Prince?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]jocelyncs
2007-11-02 07:14 am UTC (link)
If by "THE Prince," you mean the artist who wears purple and showed off his really huge...guitar at the Super Bowl last year, yes, that Prince.

Case went thus: Pickett was a fanboy of Prince some years back and made a guitar in the ankh symbol to impress him. Showed it to Prince backstage at a concert. Prince impressed. Prince later turned up playing an ankh-shaped guitar. Pickett sued, claimed copyright. Court said, "No dice, buster, even if the ankh could be copyrighted, you don't get to copyright a work based so openly on another person's material."

One of the closest cases we have to the issue of whether fanfic can be copyrighted or whether fanwriters could sue the original author for infringing their fanfic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2007-11-02 07:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlest_lurker, 2007-11-02 01:07 pm UTC

[info]evilsqueakers
2007-11-02 07:11 am UTC (link)
Good to know I'm not losing my mind. I seriously starting to wonder.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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