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Cleolinda Jones ([info]cleolinda) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2008-01-16 17:13:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:entitlement, fandom: harry potter, internet lawyers, this is the wank that never ends

JK Rowling, Defender of Fandom
Apologies to folks sick of Lexicon wank, but--from [info]jedi_dwh: JKR Files Full Request for Injunction of HP Lexicon. "A rule against JKR/WB would harm the fan community by 'necessitating more monitoring and restriction of fan activity by copyright owners afraid of compromising their rights against infringers.' "

It's a huge post and I haven't read it all yet--and apparently it's part one of two. The sentence "The text of the e-mail string between Steve Vander Ark and the Christopher Little Agency requesting employment on the official encyclopedia is included in the document [and reprinted in the post]" jumped out at me, though.

ETA from [info]white_serpent: "Oh, and you can read the whole text of the requested injunction yourself here."

ETA 2: Part two is up. There's interesting stuff in there, but at the very end:

Claims that the book is an academic resource are rebuffed by a piece of evidence showing Roger Rapoport's instruction to a colleague to focus on children's bookstores for sales.

The question of authorship arises here as well: Steve Vander Ark has said the Lexicon was "created, edited, written and maintained primarily by one person, me," and the book has listed only one author; however an e-mail from Roger Rapoport says the book was the result of 20 academic scholars and reference experts' work.

Also, being discussed in the comments here:

>>  [info]lidane: "Remember the fans that contacted Steve about publishing an encyclopedia? Well, they've both filed official statements in the court documents that JKR/WB submitted."

>> [info]auralan: "Thus, rather than being a work of scholarship or research, the Lexicon simply takes Ms. Rowling's intellectual 'furniture,' catalogues it through descriptions that have either been lifted or synthesized from Ms. Rowling, and rearranges it in unoriginal alphabetical order. She's read the Lexicon according to her declaration. I'd say this answers the question on the inclusion of the essays. They're not in there."

ETA 3: More discussions of note:

>> Cassie Edwards-style comparison between Lexicon entries and related JKR text in court documents.

>> WB tech guy's declaration that he did, in fact, try to print the Lexicon website.

ETA 4, from [info]auralan: a Plantiffs' First Amended Complaint ("This is basically the initial filing updated now that they've seen the book. The lawyers seem mighty cranky now that they've done some discovery and have some smoking guns"):
Ms. Rowling and Warner Bros. are concerned about the Infringing Book not only because of the infringing material it contains, as is discussed below, and not only because it will undermine the companion guide that Ms. Rowling herself intends to write, but also because RDR Books has confirmed -- through its refusal to be above-board about its intentions and engage in reasonable discussion about the Infringing Book -- that it cannot be trusted with one of the most beloved children's book series in history.



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[info]yosei
2008-01-17 01:27 am UTC (link)
So wait. Wouldn't this mean fans are screwed either way?

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[info]kuromitsu
2008-01-17 01:28 am UTC (link)
Wait, wait. Finally there's someone who actually gets it?

*waits for the sky to fall*

*drinks more coffee in the process 'cos damn, I can't even speak English anymore.

(Reply to this)


[info]drakyndra
2008-01-17 01:31 am UTC (link)
Oh, Lexicon wank.

Bringing enjoyment to all for months on end...

(Reply to this)


[info]themadmermaid
2008-01-17 01:36 am UTC (link)
I think that Vander Ark is a douchebag, but that email exchange still set my embarrassment squick afire badly.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tiki, 2008-01-17 04:37 am UTC

[info]senor_pinata
2008-01-17 01:43 am UTC (link)
Those guys are fucked so hard I can feel it in my ass just from reading that post.

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(no subject) - [info]metropolis22786, 2008-01-17 01:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]senor_pinata, 2008-01-17 04:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]metropolis22786, 2008-01-17 06:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]senor_pinata, 2008-01-17 07:03 pm UTC
GIP - [info]blueleopard87, 2008-01-18 12:52 am UTC
Re: GIP - [info]senor_pinata, 2008-01-18 12:54 am UTC
Re: GIP - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-01-18 08:09 pm UTC
Re: GIP - [info]blueleopard87, 2008-01-19 01:13 am UTC
Re: GIP - [info]ymfaery, 2008-01-21 10:07 am UTC
Re: GIP - [info]blueleopard87, 2008-01-22 03:59 am UTC

[info]white_serpent
2008-01-17 01:49 am UTC (link)
I am 49 years old and have proved myself to be a lot more than just some teenaged fan with a website.

Yes. They would be smart enough not to do this.

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(no subject) - [info]major_dallas, 2008-01-17 02:27 am UTC
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[info]white_serpent
2008-01-17 02:03 am UTC (link)
Oh, and you can read the whole text of the requested injunction yourself here.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lizinleather, 2008-01-17 02:51 am UTC

[info]wrackspurt
2008-01-17 02:07 am UTC (link)
That email from Vander Ark to JKRs Agency paints an unfavourable little portrait.

What a sad little man.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rustybitch, 2008-01-18 08:29 pm UTC

[info]mistal
2008-01-17 02:10 am UTC (link)
Leaky is THE ONLY media outlet doing such extensive reporting on this lawsuit.

Cleo, you're our own leaky.

On other note, I cant believe there's still people going "SVA is good!! JKR is evil!!".

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ladylance, 2008-01-17 02:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]salustra, 2008-01-19 01:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2008-01-19 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mrsparkle, 2008-01-20 06:07 am UTC

[info]ladylance
2008-01-17 02:12 am UTC (link)
The fact that SVA thought he could actually get employment on the official employment on the encyclopedia reeks of entitlement. He's gotten way too big for his breeches and this mess is the fall out of that.

I still want to know what he thought he'd be doing for JKR anyway. While presumably there will be some of the stuff that he took from her books and put up on his website, I'd think that more of it would be little tidbits that didn't make the books that flesh out canon (such as Scorpius' middle name or what have you).

And as an aside, did he stop updating the Lexicon after DH or after this mess began?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - sockpuppet_rat, 2008-01-17 05:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thecheese, 2008-01-17 07:51 am UTC
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[info]freya
2008-01-17 02:42 am UTC (link)
I totally called this in the last post.

OR SOMETHING TO EFFECT.

Kinda makes me wish I was wrong, but this will probably make people realize that JKR can honestly do whatever the hell she wants with her series and characters and not other people who are Not Her.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rustybitch, 2008-01-19 01:42 pm UTC

[info]shallow_kid
2008-01-17 02:44 am UTC (link)
That Steve Vander Ark claimed "in a 'smoking gun' e-mail that it would be 'illegal' to sell such a work without Ms. Rowling's permission and that she had reserved her right in the Series."

OMG WB/JKR's lawyers are totally reading F_W and letting Cleo and Narcissam do their research for them!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2008-01-17 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2008-01-17 04:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vzg, 2008-01-17 05:17 am UTC
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(no subject) - [info]miss_padfoot, 2008-01-18 09:48 am UTC
... - [info]evilsqueakers, 2008-01-18 06:27 pm UTC
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(no subject) - [info]xturtle, 2008-01-17 06:02 pm UTC
... - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 06:18 pm UTC
... - [info]tofuknight, 2008-01-17 11:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]solesakuma, 2008-01-17 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2008-01-18 08:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]empyrealdragon, 2008-01-18 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]isobelsomething, 2008-01-17 10:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2008-01-17 08:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvatica, 2008-01-17 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]warrioreowyn, 2008-01-17 08:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2008-01-18 07:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melyanna, 2008-01-18 10:21 pm UTC
ALSO
[info]shallow_kid
2008-01-17 02:54 am UTC (link)
Wow, those emails are awkward. Dear England, I want to move to you. Plz tell J.K. Rowling to give me a job. I iz good editor. I will now namedrop Fiddy, Rowling's personal assistant. I KNOW HER. I HAVE HER EMAIL. Presumptuously yours - Steve

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: ALSO - [info]bigbigtruck, 2008-01-17 03:50 am UTC
Re: ALSO - [info]author_by_night, 2008-01-17 05:11 am UTC
Re: ALSO - sockpuppet_rat, 2008-01-17 05:26 am UTC
Re: ALSO - [info]anarchicq, 2008-01-17 10:04 am UTC
Re: ALSO - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2008-01-19 06:36 am UTC

[info]lidane
2008-01-17 03:06 am UTC (link)
I love when wank comes around full circle. Remember the fans that contacted Steve about publishing an encyclopedia? Well, they've both filed official statements in the court documents that JKR/WB submitted.

You have to wonder just how closely JKR/WB have been following all the wank and internet postings if they picked up on those two fans and got them to get involved in all this.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2008-01-17 03:22 am UTC
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(no subject) - [info]ladylance, 2008-01-17 04:32 am UTC
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(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 03:05 pm UTC
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What JF username would Jo use? - [info]rhrsoulmates, 2008-01-17 05:44 am UTC
Re: What JF username would Jo use? - [info]huehau, 2008-01-17 05:57 am UTC
Re: What JF username would Jo use? - [info]herongale, 2008-01-17 09:16 am UTC
Re: What JF username would Jo use? - [info]rhrsoulmates, 2008-01-17 03:08 pm UTC
Re: What JF username would Jo use? - [info]anon_a_mouse, 2008-01-21 10:29 pm UTC
Re: What JF username would Jo use? - [info]herongale, 2008-01-21 11:32 pm UTC
Re: What JF username would Jo use? - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2008-01-19 06:39 am UTC
Re: What JF username would Jo use? - [info]cancertopia, 2008-01-22 06:46 am UTC

[info]auralan
2008-01-17 03:08 am UTC (link)

This comes from Jeri johnston, Senior Tutor (Academic Dean) of, and Ashby Fellow and Lecturer in English at, Exeter College, University of Oxford:

Thus, rather than being a work of scholarship or research, the Lexicon simply takes Ms. Rowling's intellectual "furniture," catalogues it through descriptions that have either been lifted or synthesized from Ms. Rowling, and rearranges it in unoriginal alphabetical order. There is nothing original or creative about organizing someone else's information alphabetically, and regardless of such rearranging, the fact remains that the furniture still is Ms. Rowling's.


She's read the Lexicon according to her declaration. I'd say this answers the question on the inclusion of the essays. They're not in there.

Now, back into the vast quantities of filings to see who else has fun stuff to say.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

DUDE - [info]emiweebee, 2008-01-17 03:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 03:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-01-17 04:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2008-01-17 03:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eilisliana, 2008-01-17 05:06 am UTC
Dead Brother-in-law, can't respond... - [info]arrogantsage, 2008-01-17 05:28 am UTC
Re: Dead Brother-in-law, can't respond... - [info]lil_miss_stfu, 2008-01-17 05:46 am UTC
Re: Dead Brother-in-law, can't respond... - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 06:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 05:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2008-01-17 11:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 06:01 am UTC

[info]velvet_mace
2008-01-17 03:29 am UTC (link)
I've never seen any of this lexicon and I'm very lazy can anyone tell me if it's just copy/paste of passages from her book, or if it's actually been rewritten with citations like a true encyclopedia.

I'm still not sure what makes this lexicon any different from all the bajillion unauthorized guidebooks on everything out there.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ladylance, 2008-01-17 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wonapalei, 2008-01-17 05:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kuromitsu, 2008-01-17 11:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]velvet_mace, 2008-01-17 06:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - iwanttobeasleep, 2008-01-18 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2008-01-19 06:41 am UTC

[info]pyratejenni
2008-01-17 03:30 am UTC (link)
No wonder elanor deleted her journals.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]maegwin_of_hern, 2008-01-17 07:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-01-17 07:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]diamonderm, 2008-01-17 02:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 03:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]diamonderm, 2008-01-17 03:19 pm UTC
... - [info]major_fischer, 2008-01-17 03:27 pm UTC
... - [info]diamonderm, 2008-01-17 03:54 pm UTC
... - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 04:44 pm UTC
... - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 04:49 pm UTC
... - [info]white_serpent, 2008-01-17 09:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2008-01-17 05:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]diamonderm, 2008-01-17 05:30 pm UTC
... - [info]azazello, 2008-01-17 08:34 pm UTC
... - [info]diamonderm, 2008-01-17 10:34 pm UTC
... - [info]narcissam, 2008-01-18 07:44 pm UTC
... - [info]wrackspurt, 2008-01-19 02:12 pm UTC

[info]auralan
2008-01-17 03:39 am UTC (link)
Another question answered, at least if we believe these filings.

There's a copy of a cease and desist type letter dated September 18, 2007 that claims to have been sent by email and snail mail asking RDR to not publish the book and to forward the C&D letter to all the publishes that bought the international rights. The C&D Letter was sent by a lawyer from O'Melveney and Myers who clearly state they are representing JKR and WB.

So, clearly there was no great surprise on Halloween when the lawsuit arrived. What did he think happened when you don't actually cease and desist after getting such a letter.

(Reply to this)


[info]hoopa
2008-01-17 04:01 am UTC (link)
Bahaha! Loving those e-mails, I never thought Steve was an entitlement douche, but he so is. What was he expecting to happen? Move to England and work on the book, then eventually get to meet JK and they realise that they are bestest friends, then he totally goes over to her's every weekend and they spend christmas together where he totally becomes Harry to their Weasley family and they decide to write like an eighth book together? Steve, be honest.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]thecheese, 2008-01-17 07:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2008-01-18 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-01-19 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2008-01-21 11:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-01-22 04:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2008-01-22 05:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-01-23 02:09 am UTC
PART TWO
[info]reddiej
2008-01-17 04:08 am UTC (link)
Part two of TLC's post is up now:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/1/17/jkr-wb-file-full-request-for-injunction-part-2

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: PART TWO - [info]lidane, 2008-01-17 04:32 am UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]luckdragonfujur, 2008-01-17 05:37 am UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]lidane, 2008-01-17 11:36 am UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]luckdragonfujur, 2008-01-17 07:43 pm UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]thecheese, 2008-01-18 02:00 am UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]rustybitch, 2008-01-18 08:40 pm UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]tunxeh, 2008-01-17 09:34 am UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]lidane, 2008-01-17 11:38 am UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 10:04 pm UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]rustybitch, 2008-01-18 02:13 pm UTC
Re: PART TWO - [info]midnitemarauder, 2008-01-19 08:45 pm UTC

[info]auralan
2008-01-17 04:10 am UTC (link)
More on the timeline of events leading up to the lawsuit (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2007cv09667/315790/27/).

Sept 18: C&D Letter emailed and sent via USPS.
Sept 19: RDR replies saying they'll talk to their lawyers and reply
Oct 3: JKR/WB's lawyers ask why there's no reply and point out the publishing date is really soon.
Oct 3: Email reply playing dead relative card. Claims the brother-in-law died last night and they're overwhelmed. Requests patience.
Oct 3: JKR/WB's lawyers reply offering understanding and condolences.
Oct 19: JRK/WB's lawyers contact RDR again saying they've become aware of RDR's contacting WB about the timeline issue and that, clearly, this means he's back to work. The timeline issue will be addressed separately, but how about replying to our issue with the Lexicon? Repeats most of the C&D stuff from the Sept 18 letter.
Oct 21: RR replies saying they're looking into it and will get back to them.
October 24: JKR/WB's lawyers start to get cranky and assert that RDR Boos is stalling to have more time to sell international rights and promote the book. They request a copy of the book. They try to make it clear that this is very serious. Mentions JKR's desire to do a encyclopedia for charity. Says that if RDR Books continues to stall while continuing to sell rights and promote that they'll have to file suit. Demands response by 5 PM on Oct 29.
Oct 24: RR replies. Claims they'll respond in the hour. Tone is pissy. Claims not to "understand or appreciate your unwarranted objections to a print version of the Harry Potter Lexicon, the world's leading fan web site long used and recommended by JKRowling herself" and then he expounds about how many other Harry potter related things exist. Claims they have nothing not in all those other books. Questions if JKR knows what they're doing.
An hour later: *crickets*
October 31: JKR/WB's lawyers call him one last time to request he not publish or delay publication to give time to resolve this. They also ask for a copy of the book. They claim he did not agree to any of that, so they informed him they were left with no choice except to file a lawsuit.
October 31: Lawsuit filed and RDR served.

I'm not seeing the surprise here.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aewgliriel, 2008-01-17 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_eponine, 2008-01-17 04:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 04:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smashingstars, 2008-01-17 04:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smashingstars, 2008-01-17 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crysiana, 2008-01-17 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]talec, 2008-01-17 01:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 02:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]talec, 2008-01-17 11:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2008-01-17 03:52 pm UTC
This is so ickky - [info]narcissam, 2008-01-18 07:48 pm UTC
Semi GIP
[info]mcity
2008-01-17 04:16 am UTC (link)
Forget OTW, this could easily sink fandom as we know it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Semi GIP - [info]ms_treesap, 2008-01-17 04:37 am UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]mcity, 2008-01-17 04:40 am UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]solesakuma, 2008-01-17 08:46 am UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]evilsqueakers, 2008-01-17 10:46 am UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]solesakuma, 2008-01-17 10:56 am UTC
... - [info]evilsqueakers, 2008-01-17 11:02 am UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]rustybitch, 2008-01-18 02:49 pm UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]mcity, 2008-01-18 04:02 pm UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]rustybitch, 2008-01-18 05:33 pm UTC
... - [info]mcity, 2008-01-18 09:15 pm UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-01-19 05:18 am UTC
Re: Semi GIP - [info]ojamajo_limepie, 2008-01-17 11:14 pm UTC
Who pays the lawyers?
[info]auralan
2008-01-17 04:36 am UTC (link)
Another answer. Steve's contract with RDR is in this mob of documents (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2007cv09667/315790/37/10.html). It seems all legal fees are RDR's problem when it comes to JKR and her licensees. If there are claims filed by anybody else for infringement, that's Steve's problem.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Who pays the lawyers? - [info]rustybitch, 2008-01-18 05:54 pm UTC
Re: Who pays the lawyers? - [info]rustybitch, 2008-01-18 06:17 pm UTC
Re: Who pays the lawyers? - [info]mistressrenet, 2008-01-19 05:20 am UTC

[info]cill_ros
2008-01-17 04:38 am UTC (link)
Dammit, I have to go to bed now. Can't wait to read it in the morning.

(Reply to this)


[info]auralan
2008-01-17 04:46 am UTC (link)
Here's where Roger Rapoport contacts WB about how they stole Steve's timeline. Not his lawyer, Roger himself.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2007cv09667/315790/37/8.html

I'm never going to get over boggling at this part of the case.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]miss_eponine, 2008-01-17 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2008-01-17 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mrs_bombastic, 2008-01-17 05:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2008-01-17 12:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackflag, 2008-01-17 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2008-01-17 11:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2008-01-17 11:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2008-01-18 08:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]auralan, 2008-01-17 03:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2008-01-17 06:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]major_dallas, 2008-01-18 10:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2008-01-27 07:59 pm UTC



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