Entry tags:

baleetion, bannination, community: fanficrants, dead gay headmaster, fandom: star trek, fanfic, isn't it awfully nice to have a penis, misogyny soup, outraged mice, penis, persecution, plucky girl detective, pseuicide, rape is not funny, sci-fi people like to fight, sexism, social experiment, troll, wankers who will not shut up, wanking inside the house, you're all assholes

Wank: The Final Frontier
As those of you who haven't been living under a rock may know, a new Star Trek movie just came out. Over on fanficrants, roq is upset about this. Apparently, TEENAGERS are now WRITING in HER fandom! Quelle suprise!

She has some choice words to say about it.

The highlights of the rant include:

Star Trek is the second oldest fandom in existence...

Because of this, I honestly don't think you can bring a new idea to the fandom. We've seen it all before, really...So that extraspiffy idea you have? We've probably seen it. What this means is that you'll need more than a gimick to keep our attention. You will need to write well. I'm not asking for Tolstoy but basic sentence structure is nice and maybe a plot or at least good characterization.

There's no such thing as an original idea? She must be right, because even that idea sounds familiar...

Two. Do not talk to me about cannon. Do not come over to my happy little ship and whine that K/S is not cannon because Spock and Uhura have a relationship. You may not be familiar with Trekkies. We are not like the Harry Potter fandom.

Guys, I think we've been told. I dunno why we're talking to her about armoury, but w/e. We are not ALLOWEd to write fanfiction within her ship unless we pass STRINGENT STANDARDS.

Also? K/S has never been cannon and probably never will. You know what? We don't care. It's fanfiction. We're changing the world just enough that K/S happens. That's it. If you have a problem with it, don't fucking read it. Go over to S/U and be happy.

The rant goes on in this vein for a while. And then there's the comments.

At first the comments at the community are overwhelmingly supportive and generally non-combative.

But then someone's fannish entitlement alarm goes off, and the shit hits the fan:

kuromitsu starts: Remember, children, this fandom has been around since before you were born. You must follow all of its ancient conventions, must strive to gain the respect of older members, and most importantly you must. not. have. fun with it your own way lest the older fans not like it.

Fandom = serious business, damn it! God forbid you enjoy yourself!

helen_damnation responds: Thank you. I was starting to think I was the only person annoyed by all the "thou shalt not"s.

I haven't seen the movie yet, though I intend to. I don't intend to watch the series. Know why? Because I don't want to. I want to watch the movie. I might write fic for the movie, I don't know yet. That's my right. I'm also very fond of portmanteaus. That's also my right.

Take your own advice and get over it.

It's all downhill from there.

Some choice bits include a "DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!" quote, some accusations that the Star Trek fandom is the angriest and wankiest of all fandoms, some people pointing out how canon is spelt, an indignant Harry Potter fan, and a question on apropriate newbie etiquette.

And it's still going.

This one looks GOOD. I think I've already made Bingo.

ETA: Collateral damage wank on ffrantsrants located here.

Also, links are corrected now. Server is being robust, though, so steady on, folks.

ETA2: roq bites back. Apparently he is a he.

Also:

So, according to the people over at fanfic rants, I'm an arrogant, condescending, hypocritical asshole with a stick up my ass.

Good to know.

Wow, you'd think I wasn't dealing with a rant community or something. Oh, wait.

RANTING COMMUNITIES ARE FOR RANTING! Also, I've forgotten to assume that everyone on the internet has a penis. My inability to remain stuck in the early 90's means that I don't understand a lot of what roq says.

(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 10:12 am UTC (link)
	Link to the Encyclopedia Dramatica page, the pages here, and the stupid_free pages please. I want to reread this post with the proper background. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-05-19 10:45 am UTC (link)

So you can make fun of him some more, and post your gleeful little comments about how it's good riddance? I don't want to give you the satisfaction.

If you can't figure out who he is from the fact that he was called a rapist and child molester in this forum, then maybe that should give you something to think about.

I'm also not going to see if it was reported in the paper. Why would it be? His parents want to grieve for him, not make him into a poster boy for internet harassment.

But you tell yourself whatever you want. I'm sure it's much easier to call me a liar than to stop and think about what you're doing and why you do it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 10:57 am UTC (link)
	"His parents want to grieve for him, not make him into a poster boy for internet harassment." Good to see you've respected your wishes. Oh wait... Anyway I called bullshit when reading your first post and this one confirms it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-05-19 11:16 am UTC (link)

"Good to see you've respected your wishes. Oh wait..."

I think you meant "Good to see you've respected their wishes. Oh wait..." That would make nominally more sense, though I haven't identified him to you or, more importantly, to the press. Which means that the point you're trying to make is, well, it's not a good point.

It's just a snarky way to dismiss a troubling thought. It's an easy way to dismiss any questions about the consequences of your actions. You get to put me in a Catch-22. Either I tell you his name, the handle he posted under, and then I really do fail to respect his parent's wishes, and fail to honor him as a friend -- I know if I name him you'll just start insulting him and gloat about his suicide -- or I don't and you call me a liar.

It's okay. I just needed to say this to this forum. I don't need you to believe me.

As for my wishes...My wish is that all of you could experience what you did to him, and then maybe we could live in a world where nice sweet guys who never harmed anyone and just don't understand that normal people don't share their intellectual detachment and willingness to talk about awful things don't have to go though life feeling like outcasts and losers just for being a bit odd.

He was a writer. He spent a lot of time thinking and talking about what motivates bad people, and his stories were always about why bad people do bad things. He was obsessed with it, and it was all he talked about. Sometimes it was off-putting, especially his theories about why people do bad things, which is why you all attacked him. He was talking to a friend in a forum where such discussion were appropriate, and one of you singled him out because you didn't like what he said, and he got posted here multiple times in a few months once people here started following him around the internet waiting to pounce on anything he said.

But he wasn't a bad person himself. He just desperately needed to understand why bad people were bad. Because he was such a nice person, and he didn't get it.

You took something he said out of context, mocked him for it, and in doing so you shook his belief that mindless cruelty was a rare trait in people. And he couldn't live with that.

Now he's dead, and even if you believed me, I doubt you'd care.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tetradecimal 2009-05-19 11:24 am UTC (link)
	tl;dr, U DUN UNDERSTAND ME BAWWWWW (Reply to this)(Parent)

naienko
2009-05-19 03:22 pm UTC (link)

Been there, done that ... oh, wait.

Don't come in here and blame us because you couldn't help him. Or should that be 'didn't help him'? The number of us here who have mental illnesses, like your 'friend' clearly did ... well, you're not going to get to our hearts by claiming we ruined him. We know better. We know what it's like to be trapped in a spiral of self-hate and need help to get out of it.

You failed your friend. You, his parents, anyone else who knew him -- you FAILED. It's not our fault.

Life is hard. Shit happens. I've got no pity for someone who feels the need to assuage their guilt by doing "I told you so" anonymously on the internet. You want our pity? You want to make a change? You want to save other people from what happened to your friend?
Sign your name to it. Get a spine or some balls and be honest instead of as mindlessly cruel as you accuse us of being.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2009-05-19 11:09 am UTC (link)

It's not calling you a liar to ask for links.

There are apparently real-life people running around believing that HP is a training manual for Satanism. Without a link to Snopes, most folks would be hard-pressed to believe that there are people that dumb out there.

And while people can be unfeeling or even cruel, it's doubtful that posters would be screaming "good riddance" over someone's suicide -- even if it proved to be totally unrelated to FW -- not without being shouted-down by the majority of posters.

And as someone else said, if his parents want to grieve for him privately, why are you making him the poster boy for internet harassment in this post?

You just make it more unbelievable as the moments tick by.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 11:15 am UTC (link)
	It's not a matter of making fun of you or the story you posted; you accuse F_W of killing someone, then withhold the evidence? And then act indignant when evidence is asked for? If your friend meant that much to you - at least if it were MY friend - I'd support my accusations with as many hardcore facts as possible. hollydb @ livejournal.com (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-05-19 11:43 am UTC (link)

Why, so you can put a real date of death on the fake gravestone one of you made for him? I can't imagine where he ever got the idea that the world didn't care if he lived or died, what with you all posting his fake gravestone and celebrating his death before it happened.

How many people have you done this to that you can't figure it out?

That should really bother you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

panthea
2009-05-19 12:02 pm UTC (link)

How many people have you done this to that you can't figure it out?

Uh... the thing is, none. I've been around here since 2003, and admittedly I haven't kept up with every single wank, but I can't recall anyone ever photoshopping a fake gravestone for somebody and "celebrating his death." Or doing any of the other things you accuse us of. Mainly because we do not do that shit.

Look, you may genuinely believe this happened. Hell, it may have actually happened. But nobody here seems to remember it, which probably means the whole incident wasn't nearly as bad (and therefore memorable) as you claim, or, well, it never happened. And until you can back up your claims, I'm sorry, dude, but nobody's going to feel bad about something that nobody can remember, just because you say it happened and then get all shirty when we ask for details. That doesn't make us heartless and evil (well, most of us), it just means we're not fucking stupid.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	faultypremise 2009-05-19 12:04 pm UTC (link)
	I just looked at the wiki. There are entries that mention 'rape' and 'rapist' but the links don't lead to anything substantial. There are no entries that mention 'child molest' or 'child molestation' or even 'molestation'. So really? I think someone's trolling at this point. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2009-05-19 12:12 pm UTC (link)

I'm sorry, you're right. The gravestone was on the encyclopedia dramatica page, which has exactly the same text as the fw wiki entry, but not the same images. So I'm assuming it's the same people involved. The ED entry repeats everything you wrote about him, and then adds a picture of him from a Halloween party which on of his former real life friends gave them, and the gravestone. It reads "He died for our lulz." And he certainly did.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	faultypremise 2009-05-19 12:19 pm UTC (link)
	ED and FW are two completely separate animals, lead by different people. There is some cross over, but not nearly as much as you think. (Reply to this)(Parent)

panthea
2009-05-19 12:49 pm UTC (link)

For what it's worth, I'm going to assume you're genuine right now and speak with my Mod Hat on. (This thing doesn't get much use, sadly.)

Fandom Wank has rules. Those rules include, off the top of my head, not harassing/directly interacting with subjects of wanks unless they come here to participate, and as an extension, not attacking someone in real life. So personal information, such as the photo you mentioned, and genuinely wishing for somebody's death would not be acceptable here. Without knowing who exactly you're talking about, I can't address the situation directly and tell whether any rules were broken in that case. But beyond the actual rules, there are things we just Do Not Do, which will get somebody pounced on and bitched out here, and again, those include posting RL pictures of somebody (if those pictures aren't already publicly available and associated with the person's online name) or other identifying information, genuinely wishing or threatening harm on somebody, making serious RL accusations (such as calling somebody a rapist or child molester without actual evidence of those crimes), et cetera.

That said, the unfortunate truth is that this comm didn't always have those rules. Early FW was kind of a lawless place. We've developed rules in order to avoid crossing what we consider moral lines. Other people may not agree with where we draw those lines, but they do exist.

So if somebody is wanked here, this is what will probably happen: they'll be mocked here, probably for what they said/did online. They may be repeatedly referenced later on if the wank was particularly memorable. We may not be nice about it. We rarely are.

Here's what shouldn't happen: again, posting RL pics of or identifying information about anybody (with the above-mentioned caveat). Again, wishing or threatening harm. Engaging with the person being wanked anywhere but on FW-- that is, trolling that person's journal or otherwise directly harassing them as a result of the FW post (and you can see the effect of this rule sometimes in the comments-- look at all the posts about "I saw this post on my flist/this community I follow/etc. before the Fandom Wank post, is it okay for me to keep posting there?" People are, for the most part, careful about this rule, because we do ban for it-- hell, we just did). Reposting any private communication or posts that were friends-locked from the beginning.

I don't know-- can't know-- exactly what might have caused your friend to kill himself. But in all sincerity, if any of our rules were broken in this case-- and I encourage you to look at the list of rules in our profile-- then that is something we would take very seriously, and would take action against. If you'd rather not make the specific accusation/complaint public, you can email the mods at mods [at] thefannish [dot] org and we'll see if any official steps should be taken.

If you don't wish to do so, that's fine, but please understand that without any specifics, a general accusation of wrongdoing is not going to ruffle many feathers here. You mentioned above that you're not aware of this, but many, many people have claimed that fandom wank (not just Fandom Wank the community specifically, but wank in fandom in general) has driven friends or loved ones (or, in some cases, even themselves) to suicide, and the vast, vast majority of such claims are laughably transparent. The "dead" people often pop up days later on their own, or are proven through further digging to be slightly less than dead after all. Fake internet suicide is so common that there's a word for it (pseuicide), which is why you're not getting much sympathy here-- it's hard to take a story like yours seriously without proof, when the last, say, fifty or so stories just like yours were proven to be false.

All that said, I'm sorry for your loss. I lost a friend to suicide a few years ago. It shouldn't happen and it's not fair to anybody.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2009-05-19 12:57 pm UTC

(no subject) -

panthea, 2009-05-19 01:10 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2009-05-19 01:34 pm UTC

(no subject) -

panthea, 2009-05-19 01:40 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2009-05-19 01:47 pm UTC

(no subject) -

tetradecimal, 2009-05-19 04:04 pm UTC

(no subject) -

acciosnitch, 2009-05-20 12:39 am UTC

(no subject) -

ajatshatru, 2009-05-20 06:14 am UTC

(no subject) -

nevadafighter, 2009-05-19 05:42 pm UTC

(no subject) -

cyndra_falin, 2009-05-19 07:39 pm UTC

(no subject) -

serai, 2009-05-19 09:59 pm UTC

(no subject) -

apoplexia, 2009-05-21 08:39 am UTC

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 08:15 pm UTC (link)
	You mean the "gravestone" somebody made when he deleted his LJ account, BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWing all the while about how the mean bitches didn't understand his incredibly deep thoughts that rape was the result of them secretly wanting sex but being too ashamed to say yes? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

serai, 2009-05-19 09:59 pm UTC

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 12:26 pm UTC (link)
	Look, dude, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just barely not a lurker over here. If you want to throw accusations, fine, but do so with some backing. Also? When I write something, I sign my name. Anonymous or not. hollydb @ lovejournal.com (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 12:51 pm UTC (link)
	^livejournal (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lady_ganesh 2009-05-19 05:55 pm UTC (link)
	I kind of want a lovejournal now. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	senor_pinata 2009-05-19 07:12 pm UTC (link)
	Me too! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	serai 2009-05-19 10:00 pm UTC (link)
	I'm kind of surprised there isn't one, already. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 05:33 pm UTC (link)
	Boo fucking hoo hoo. (Reply to this)(Parent)

tetradecimal
2009-05-19 11:22 am UTC (link)

Uh oh, my nefarious plot was seen through from my very first post! Luckily, I have a backup tactic: guilt trips and wild accusations to divert attention from my complete lack of proof. I'm telling the truth, because if you don't believe me, you're one of them.

What kind of slipshod work are you submitting here? I couldn't even suspend my disbelief for one post. And honestly, who fails at trolling?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 12:20 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks. As you cannot provide any links you mention, it is revealed you're a liar. But that was obvious. No friend tries to use a suicide of a friend for guilt-tripping people. You're just a very sad troll. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-05-19 01:09 pm UTC (link)

'No friend tries to use a suicide of a friend for guilt-tripping people. You're just a very sad troll.'

This.

If they really meant it and this really happened they might have contacted the mods with the evidence in an honest attempt to get rules changed or the place shut down. If they really wanted to recpect their friend and not sully their death with internet wank, they wouldn't have brought it up at all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2009-05-19 10:03 pm UTC (link)
	YO YEAH So she's "respecting the family's wishes" by dragging the whole thing up again with the very people she accuses of killing her friend? Very nice. Very dignified. Go home, child. Your mama's got lemonade and a crying towel. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Read comments) -