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tetradecimal (tetradecimal) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2009-08-06 16:28:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:authors, isn't it awfully nice to have a penis, racism, recipes in comments, sci-fi people like to fight, sexism, still not funny, writers are often pompous douches

In Failtown, they pay you by the word
This wank brought to you by wank_report.

A bit of context: The Mammoth Book of Mindblowing SF is the next installment in the Mammoth Book anthology series edited by Mike Ashley. Recently, its table of contents, which lists the twenty-one stories and authors that will be included in the book, was posted on the SF Signal website.

Almost immediately, there is some grousing from the peanut gallery -- it seems that not one of the authors included in the lineup are (a)women, or (b)nonwhite. Commenters proceed to point this out, mostly keeping it down to a few sentences and seemingly content to speak up and move on. Luckily, Paul Di Filippo, one of the authors featured in the anthology, arrives on the scene, CAPS LOCK AT THE READY AND BRIMMING WITH RAGE.


"Every single commenter here seems to me to be committing a logical fallacy of tremendous dimension, one so big it distorts entire worldviews:

DEMANDING THAT EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE OF EVERYTHING COMPOSITE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY STATISTICALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COMPOSITION OF THE ENTIRE COSMOS

You know what: a potato field is not likely to contain corn plants. A pine forest might feature an oak or three, but be 99% pine trees. The Beatles were 4 white guys. Sonic Youth has no people of color! My ream of copy paper is all white, with no sheets of lettuce included!"


Reactions range from serious responses to general confusion to "wtf, drama llama?"

But tortured produce comparisons are not enough for Di Filippo, who decides that his argument would be better served by the inclusion of...

Math homework!
"Now, if you got the annual LOCUS survey of books published and pointed out to me that there were N number of anthologies published in 2008 featuring Y number of stories, and that only X percent of these stories were written by folks who were not WASP males, and then you argued that X percent was way too low, I would consider you had the beginnings of a rational argument and gripe."

Accusations of JEALOUS!
"But I have to say that when ANY WRITER (not just female writers or writers of color) complains about being excluded from a venue and cites issues of platonic principle and idealism, I always first posit underlying jealousy and a desire for status underneath all the lofty hypothetical talk."

...Seinfeld?
"The book in question was assembled by a combo of 1) and 2). Obviously, Mike Ashley recalled only stories by men and invited stories only from males. (Or possibly, invited women who did not respond or qualify.) This resulted in a men-only book. Is this sexism, or is it a function of the phenomenon illustrated in the SEINFELD episode of the big-breasted waitresses? Elaine was incensed that a certain diner featured only big-breasted waitresses--until she discovered that all the women were the owner's daughters. In other words, what seemed to be sexism was "family bias." Mike relied on his "family connections," to the dead or living. And that family included no women. Limited family maybe, but sexism? Your call."

But for those who haven't yet drowned in the sea of abortive analogies, Di Filippo ramps it up to 11:

"Come, come, now, Tempest! Are not potatoes and trees a beautiful, vital part of Gaia? Just as Walt Whitman (a male, but forgivable since gay) wanted to be reincarnated as humble grass, so too do I myself dream someday of being a tree or potato--if I am not one already.

And in a shifty debating technique, you neglect to mention my implicit comparison with Kim Gordon. Kim Gordon, man! Like, punk, you know? (Am I "with it" yet?)"

"My Failboat has been sunk! I go down bravely yet moronically at the helm. Farewell, dear world!

Actually, all this useless talk has diverted me from working on a new story. For a Mike Ashley anthology! Yes, it's true. The Secret Masters are continuing their malicious depradations. My protagonist, however, is a Person of Color. This choice was made ages ago. I hope this might in some small way exculpate my sins."


Tempest:
"... I fail to understand how being gay makes Walt Whitman "forgiveable". I guess you're implying that someone around here has said that men are bad? But I guess you think those imaginary people would think gay men are okay because... they like other men? I... really, I'm trying to see the logic here and missing it. Explain, please."

Lori S.:
"Paul, your argument about personal stakes might be more effective (and sound bushels less defensive to boot) if *your* name wasn't in the TOC."

Luke Jackson: (in defense of the author)
"Congratulations on speaking some against-the-grain sense in the midst of a mindless stampede. I know it can be hard speaking up against the lemmings."

Mike Ashley, in his capacity as editor, tries to address the conflict, but sadly manages to tack on his opinion that "women are every bit as capable of writing mindblowing sf as men are, but with women the stories concentrate far more on people, life, society and not the hard-scientific concepts I was looking for".

Back on SF Signal, Di Filippo grows weary of answering comments, and urges people to engage him over email instead for even more tl;dr punishment. Rosefox takes him up on his offer, resulting in a super-special moment for everyone involved:

"You will never get any private or public repentance from me. At least not until someone on the "other side" offers the same, and does it first, considering that their moronic arguments preceded my moronic arguments."

"You have always struck me and continue to strike me as a sincere wisher-of-goodness for the field. Others in "your camp" appear to me to be repugnant and dangerous combinations of Jerry Falwell, Savonarola, Osama bin Laden, Bill O'Reilly and Aimee Semple McPherson. To such, I will never bow my head."


ETA: (thanks, [info]varpstone): The Angry Black Woman weighs in. And there was much rejoicing.



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(Post a new comment)


[info]sevendeadlyfun
2009-08-06 11:50 pm UTC (link)
I think I have a bingo here: ur just jellus, mansplaining, but math is hard for girls, and analogies that go nowhere and illustrate nothing.

Yep, pretty sure that's my card all stamped.

(Reply to this)


[info]phosfate
2009-08-06 11:53 pm UTC (link)
Does he know that Aimee Semple McPherson is really, really dead?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - mockygogo, 2009-08-07 12:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rachel_pi, 2009-08-07 05:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]erototoxin, 2009-08-07 07:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]taterbird, 2009-08-08 04:37 am UTC

[info]alya1989262
2009-08-07 12:10 am UTC (link)
... Wow. I just... wow.

I want to headdesk, but am afraid that if I start now I may never be able to stop.

(Reply to this)


mockygogo
2009-08-07 12:10 am UTC (link)
oh, and great jorb there Mr. Di Fillipo. Lord knows the world didn't have enough potato analogies in the realm of faily writers.

I still say it's a conspiracy by the Atkins people to get people off of carbs sheerly by negative reinforcement.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-07 06:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-07 06:27 pm UTC

[info]lysana
2009-08-07 12:19 am UTC (link)
I suspected this would make it here. Tempest's response was flitting about my Twitter feed yesterday. And I admit I made one comment in there, but after di Filippo flounced and before this was posted.

(Reply to this)


[info]misachan
2009-08-07 12:21 am UTC (link)
*facepalm* God, I hate all the the tortured justifications. Is it really so hard, when someone points out, "Dude, your anthology is nothing but white dudes!" to take a step back and go, "Huh, you're right. I'm going to keep a closer eye on things so I don't look like a racist asshat next time."

I mean, sure it's possible that the best of all the stories he had to choose from were from white guys, and that he didn't even look at the names when he put the anthology together. And it's possible that there were no Native American kids out there who could have played Jacob Black, or any Asian kids for Avatar! Anything's possible, right?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]salamandersam, 2009-08-07 01:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]watersword, 2009-08-07 03:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2009-08-07 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaesa, 2009-08-07 06:23 am UTC
... - [info]kirsten, 2009-08-07 08:30 am UTC
... - [info]kaesa, 2009-08-07 08:57 am UTC
... - [info]anonyrat, 2009-08-08 02:13 am UTC
... - [info]kaesa, 2009-08-08 02:51 am UTC
... - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-08 03:25 am UTC
... - [info]taterbird, 2009-08-08 04:39 am UTC
... - [info]yattara, 2009-08-07 02:44 pm UTC
... - [info]bacon_lover, 2009-08-07 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tangentialone, 2009-08-07 02:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-07 06:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2009-08-07 06:05 am UTC

[info]littleshebear
2009-08-07 12:28 am UTC (link)
My ream of copy paper is all white, with no sheets of lettuce included!"

That's so nonsensical, it's almost brilliant. It's so utterly crazy, it's hard to know where to begin rebutting it. The Chewbacca defence is dead; long live the lettuce defence.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-07 12:36 am UTC
Since I'm on an icon kick anyway . . . - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 01:21 am UTC
Re: Since I'm on an icon kick anyway . . . - [info]hwc, 2009-08-07 01:48 am UTC
... - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 02:03 am UTC
... - [info]cygnia, 2009-08-07 02:08 am UTC
... - [info]hwc, 2009-08-07 12:16 pm UTC
... - [info]bienegold, 2009-08-07 01:00 pm UTC
Re: Since I'm on an icon kick anyway . . . - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-07 04:33 am UTC
... - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 04:47 am UTC
... - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-07 04:52 am UTC
... - [info]witty, 2009-08-08 01:19 am UTC
... - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-08 02:05 am UTC
More icons! - [info]poisonyoulove, 2009-08-08 02:34 am UTC
Re: More icons! - [info]nostariel, 2009-08-08 05:47 am UTC
Re: More icons! - [info]ghostmaster, 2009-08-08 09:19 am UTC
Re: More icons! - [info]puipui, 2009-08-08 09:27 pm UTC
Re: More icons! - [info]profsmith, 2009-08-08 09:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-08-07 12:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladysphinx, 2009-08-07 09:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-07 01:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2009-08-07 07:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-07 12:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littleshebear, 2009-08-07 06:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacelogic, 2009-08-07 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aliaras, 2009-08-07 09:35 pm UTC
And here I thought-- - [info]gairid, 2009-08-08 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]damien, 2009-08-08 01:30 pm UTC

[info]missdeep
2009-08-07 12:35 am UTC (link)
"But I have to say that when ANY WRITER (not just female writers or writers of color) complains about being excluded from a venue and cites issues of platonic principle and idealism, I always first posit underlying jealousy and a desire for status underneath all the lofty hypothetical talk."

WHY MUST YOU ALL BE SO JEALOUS OF MY SUCCESS MANCESS?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]_goblin_, 2009-08-07 01:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-07 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-07 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-07 04:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenbell, 2009-08-07 05:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-07 06:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]roachspit, 2009-08-07 06:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-07 06:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]_goblin_, 2009-08-07 06:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-07 10:23 am UTC
... - [info]ladyvyola, 2009-08-07 05:11 pm UTC
... - [info]darth_ember, 2009-09-09 12:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-07 06:30 pm UTC

[info]bigbigtruck
2009-08-07 12:41 am UTC (link)

You know what: a potato field is not likely to contain corn plants. A pine forest might feature an oak or three, but be 99% pine trees. The Beatles were 4 white guys. Sonic Youth has no people of color! My ream of copy paper is all white, with no sheets of lettuce included!"


I know these are English words, my brain just registers them as carnival organs and slide whistles.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-08-07 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]socker, 2009-08-15 07:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]misachan, 2009-08-07 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-08-07 01:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]miera_c, 2009-08-07 05:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaseroque, 2009-08-07 02:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-07 06:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2009-08-07 12:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2009-08-07 02:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercutia, 2009-08-07 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rimrunner, 2009-08-07 05:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sneer, 2009-08-07 07:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]socker, 2009-08-15 07:53 am UTC

[info]waltraute
2009-08-07 12:57 am UTC (link)
As most of the other Mammoth Volumes are explicitly themed (and often fairly narrow), I'm trying to figure out what the hell this one was supposed to be, other than "shit the editor thought was neat", which doesn't tell me much.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-07 06:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 06:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-07 07:01 am UTC
... - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 07:19 am UTC
... - [info]ladysphinx, 2009-08-07 09:37 pm UTC
... - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 09:48 pm UTC
... - [info]innocentsmith, 2009-08-08 09:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]harukami, 2009-08-07 07:52 am UTC
... - [info]palabradot, 2009-08-09 03:42 pm UTC

[info]_goblin_
2009-08-07 01:07 am UTC (link)
What saves this from being deeply unfunny is that he's so insane. Nothing he says is convincing, and all of it makes him sound like a Muppet on 'shrooms.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-08-07 01:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2009-08-07 01:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2009-08-07 01:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]scifantasy, 2009-08-07 01:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]risha, 2009-08-07 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]irised, 2009-08-07 02:04 am UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-08-07 03:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-08-07 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-08-07 03:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]maevele, 2009-08-10 10:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goddessleila, 2009-08-08 06:08 am UTC

[info]imp
2009-08-07 01:25 am UTC (link)
You know, if he'd just said something to the effect of "Yeah, you're right, but it was just a small selection of sci-fi writers, which is a niche genre anyway, so you can't expect the statistics to exactly reflect society," I'd disagree, but I wouldn't think he's a narrowminded prick. Even if it seems unlikely, it's not as if it's impossible.

But claiming that expecting women and POCs to be grouped in with sci-fi writers is the same as expecting corn in a potato field? What the hell? It manages both nonsensical AND offensive, since it pretty much states that women and POCs are a completely different species than the white male scifi writer and couldn't write the same material! What an idiot.

The additional fail of the editor claiming it's because "women don't write the right kind of scifi" only makes it worse.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]_goblin_, 2009-08-07 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]imp, 2009-08-07 02:01 am UTC
(no subject) - janegray, 2009-08-07 10:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2009-08-07 02:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]imp, 2009-08-07 02:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]duraniedrama, 2009-08-08 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-07 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2009-08-17 12:40 pm UTC

[info]poisonyoulove
2009-08-07 01:45 am UTC (link)
"My Failboat has been sunk! I go down bravely yet moronically at the helm. Farewell, dear world!

LOL WUT? I'm pretty sure he's so full of hot air that he'll just float right up to the surface again.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cassildra, 2009-08-07 04:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]salamandersam, 2009-08-07 05:21 am UTC

[info]ari_o
2009-08-07 01:50 am UTC (link)
Can Kim Gordon please stomp on his face? Cause she totally would.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]snarkbunny, 2009-08-07 05:47 am UTC

[info]watersword
2009-08-07 02:04 am UTC (link)
Luke Jackson?

The Luke Jackson whose sekrit superherodouche name is Igor Sanchez Luke Jackson?

...can we just break out the recipes now, folks?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-07 02:10 am UTC
raspberry buttermilk cake - [info]rogue, 2009-08-07 02:13 am UTC
Re: raspberry buttermilk cake - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-07 03:24 am UTC
Re: raspberry buttermilk cake - [info]bienegold, 2009-08-07 06:05 am UTC
Kung Pao Chicken - [info]cygnia, 2009-08-07 02:13 am UTC
HOT CROSS BUNS - [info]somnambulicious, 2009-08-07 02:35 am UTC
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS - [info]goblin, 2009-08-07 06:54 am UTC
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS - [info]somnambulicious, 2009-08-07 07:05 am UTC
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS - [info]aliaras, 2009-08-07 10:43 pm UTC
Re: HOT CROSS BUNS - [info]somnambulicious, 2009-08-08 01:33 am UTC
Needs more potato - [info]tangentialone, 2009-08-07 02:42 am UTC
Re: Needs more potato - [info]tangentialone, 2009-08-07 02:45 am UTC
Re: Needs more potato - [info]sistercoyote, 2009-08-07 03:03 am UTC
Re: Needs more potato - [info]tangentialone, 2009-08-07 03:06 am UTC
Soytastic Mocha Mille-crêpe Doomcake - [info]mmanurere, 2009-08-07 03:30 am UTC
Re: Soytastic Mocha Mille-crêpe Doomcake - [info]deadwood, 2009-08-07 05:37 pm UTC
Re: Soytastic Mocha Mille-crêpe Doomcake - [info]mmanurere, 2009-08-07 06:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2009-08-07 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2009-08-07 04:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2009-08-07 06:24 am UTC
Very Nice Potato Salad - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 06:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]esorlehcar, 2009-08-07 07:13 am UTC
Shantung chicken. - [info]fools_game, 2009-08-07 04:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chrystalline, 2009-08-07 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2009-08-07 08:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aliaras, 2009-08-07 10:51 pm UTC

[info]rikiki
2009-08-07 04:27 am UTC (link)
I'd just like to point out that, even though I've read it before, I just read the cut text as saying "Buffalo Potatoes."

Now I'm wondering, are these potatoes from Buffalo, a euphemism for certain parts of a buffalo, or some sort of potato recipe?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

voting for C! - [info]ruaki, 2009-08-07 05:43 am UTC
Re: voting for C! - [info]sneer, 2009-08-07 07:18 am UTC
Re: voting for C! - [info]ruaki, 2009-08-07 08:03 pm UTC
... - [info]sneer, 2009-08-07 08:16 pm UTC

[info]vorpal_blade
2009-08-07 05:13 am UTC (link)
"women are every bit as capable of writing mindblowing sf as men are, but with women the stories concentrate far more on people, life, society and not the hard-scientific concepts I was looking for".

Then shouldn't the title be, "Mindblowing SF Focusing on Hard-Scientific Concepts and Leaving Out Any of That Touchy-Feely Stuff the Wimmin All Write"?

You know, if the editor is dead set on publishing an anthology that specifically deals with the things his nearest and dearest write best, I guess no one should be surprised that the demographic of the authors is identical to the guys he's played D & D with for twenty years. Which doesn't excuse the editor not getting off his lazy ass to FIND someone he doesn't actually know who might write something appropriate to the anthology... it just explains it.

I'm also not convinced of two things:

1) That there are no authors, of any demographic, writing a combination of hard-science and "people, life, society"; frankly, a story that doesn't have something about how people, life and society are affected by the hard science in question sounds somewhat soulless.

2) That all SF written by women can be summed up as being about "people, life, society" and never about hard science (or a combination).

How authors who are male and persons of color don't address "the hard-scientific concepts" he was looking for will also interest me very much, should he attempt to explain that omission.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 06:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-08-07 06:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 06:40 am UTC
... - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-07 09:27 pm UTC
... - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 09:38 pm UTC
... - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-07 10:11 pm UTC
... - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 10:39 pm UTC
... - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-07 11:20 pm UTC
... - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 11:33 pm UTC
... - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-08 12:04 am UTC
... - [info]tangentialone, 2009-08-07 10:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pepperjackcandy, 2009-09-03 10:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2009-08-07 07:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 08:00 am UTC
... - [info]mmanurere, 2009-08-07 08:25 am UTC
... - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 04:11 pm UTC
... - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 03:59 am UTC
... - [info]mmanurere, 2009-08-08 08:06 am UTC
... - [info]theropicus, 2009-08-09 11:17 am UTC
Warning: Teal Deer Xing - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 10:14 am UTC
Re: Warning: Teal Deer Xing - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 05:04 pm UTC
... - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 05:59 pm UTC
... - [info]duraniedrama, 2009-08-08 12:51 am UTC
... - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-08 01:25 am UTC
... - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 04:11 am UTC
... - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-08 06:13 pm UTC
Re: Warning: Teal Deer Xing - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 05:10 pm UTC
... - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 05:55 pm UTC
... - [info]kosaginolegion, 2009-08-07 06:04 pm UTC
... - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 06:11 pm UTC
... - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 06:09 pm UTC
... - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 06:15 pm UTC
... - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 06:34 pm UTC
... - [info]castellated, 2009-08-07 08:27 pm UTC
... - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 08:50 pm UTC
... - [info]sgaana, 2009-08-08 06:40 am UTC
... - [info]chrystalline, 2009-08-07 06:12 pm UTC
... - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 06:17 pm UTC
... - tetradecimal, 2009-08-07 09:18 pm UTC
... - [info]taterbird, 2009-08-08 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]j00j, 2009-08-07 07:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2009-08-07 08:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alya1989262, 2009-08-07 02:17 pm UTC
... - tetradecimal, 2009-08-07 02:21 pm UTC
... - [info]alya1989262, 2009-08-07 02:23 pm UTC
... - [info]dragonfangirl, 2009-08-09 05:16 am UTC
... - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 04:22 am UTC
... - [info]akatsuki_ame, 2009-08-08 08:54 am UTC
... - [info]_goblin_, 2009-08-08 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]twoiskewl, 2009-08-09 08:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2009-08-07 08:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gardnerhill, 2009-08-14 10:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glossing2, 2009-08-07 04:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]atdelphi, 2009-08-07 06:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-07 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anime_angel_ash, 2009-08-25 12:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-25 05:38 pm UTC
... - [info]anime_angel_ash, 2009-08-25 09:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_jafaria, 2009-08-07 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vorpal_blade, 2009-08-07 08:37 pm UTC
Now without html fail - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-07 07:44 pm UTC

[info]istaerlus
2009-08-07 06:04 am UTC (link)
"You know what: a potato field is not likely to contain corn plants."

Actually living near several farms, I have seen corn plants growing in fields containing other crops. They're from last years crop when the field was corn, they are persistant little buggers.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]vorpal_blade, 2009-08-07 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 05:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brown_betty, 2009-08-07 06:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]argylespy, 2009-08-07 09:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2009-08-07 11:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-08-07 04:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 03:36 am UTC
... - [info]chikane, 2009-08-08 10:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-08-07 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-07 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 03:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-08-08 07:35 pm UTC
... - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-10 12:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goddessleila, 2009-08-08 06:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]socker, 2009-08-15 07:56 am UTC

[info]mcity
2009-08-07 07:36 am UTC (link)
My ream of copy paper is all white, with no sheets of lettuce included!
I've been either going to the wrong sort of stationers or the wrong sort of grocer's and I'm not sure which.

Math homework!
The trains will pass each other in 15 minutes.

Accusations of JEALOUS!
I'd like to think that until I am senile or drunk, I will remain self-aware enough to know that posting a statement like that is not a good idea.

...Seinfeld?
I'm not sure whether I should make a "serenity now" joke or a "not that there's anything wrong with that" joke.

Just as Walt Whitman (a male, but forgivable since gay)
...I think he just made the "not that there's anything wrong with that" joke for me.

"My Failboat has been sunk! I go down bravely yet moronically at the helm. Farewell, dear world!
You know that scene in Titanic? With the captain? Now imagine all that water is stupidity.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chrystalline, 2009-08-07 05:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bacon_lover, 2009-08-07 11:48 pm UTC

[info]seca
2009-08-07 08:31 am UTC (link)
Isn't this something more for unfunny business than fw?

'Cause I'm really feeling a lot more rage rather than funny on this one personally.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-08-07 02:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]reeve, 2009-08-07 02:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2009-08-07 04:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 03:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sudaki, 2009-08-10 05:57 am UTC

[info]anonyrat
2009-08-07 09:01 am UTC (link)
You know, it seems like calling your anthology "The Mammoth Book of Mindblowing SF" is just kind of asking for it.

It's like calling your comedy improv group "Laugh Riot".

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]castellated, 2009-08-07 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2009-08-08 12:47 am UTC
*without html errors
owlrigh
2009-08-07 09:04 am UTC (link)
What's Hard SF? "A good definition of Hard SF would be that branch of Science Fiction in which the events in the story could conceivably happen in the universe as we know it, the science and technology as plausible as possible, and that there no (or at least very few) glaring errors of fact, such as could easily be checked using standard reference material." [ source ]

"Hard science fiction is a category of science fiction characterized by an emphasis on scientific or technical detail, or on scientific accuracy, or on both. [ source ]

"'Hard' SF is that part of the genre which has a firm grounding in Science/Maths, or an extrapolation of current scientific thoughts." source ]

What I'm not seeing are people coming up with a huge list of female hard SF writers to prove Di Filippo/Ashley completely wrong. I had a poke around the net and came up with a couple of links:

http://badgerbag.livejournal.com/119313.html

A transcript of a Wiscon panel on women and hard sf, which I will notice does not have many names at all. Five, with many caveats.

http://www.mikebrotherton.com/?p=1069

More names, but I raise my eyebrows at the likes of, say, Asaro? Maybe because I am more familiar with her romantic SF works. I always thought she was more of a romance writer, myself, albeit one I enjoy.

Hard SF writers are, for the most part, male. They're scientists, mathematicians [1] [ 2 ], physicists [ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ], engineers, astronomers, computer scientist. I could go on; here's a list of hard sf writers I used: http://www.hardsf.org/SuggBkLt.htm

These professions are highly under-represented by women, and while I shan't speculate upon the reasons for why this is, I can come up with a reason for why the women who are in these professions may not be writing: they are married.

At this point it will be said: the blokes are married too! But, whereas the chaps come home to a rummy warm fire and dinner on the table, their female counterparts have, in all likelihood, been working hard all day, and if studies in other professions are to go by, even harder to make up for the supposed 'women are not as good as men' bias.

If my own man is anything to go by, (and we both work full-time), when I come home I'm supposed to make dinner, do the dishes, wake him up with full breakfast, do the laundry. These things only happen when I feel like it, but if you add children to the mix with a large workload, then you've got no time to yourself at all, other than -- if you're into SF -- to sit down with that book you've been meaning to read and get in a few pages.

There's gone your few women in the industry, any potential women hard SF writers. Then you may have the ones who ARE doing it, and then get told by editors, "hey, maybe if you add a romance element" or whatever, being that the writer's a woman and they think there should be a social element, because "women don't write hard sf" and then they don't make the grade. Who knows.

Chris Moriarty's take on Hard SF: http://www.chrismoriarty.com/hard-sf.html

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: *without html errors - [info]delarina, 2009-08-07 10:34 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]doyle, 2009-08-07 01:39 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-07 01:52 pm UTC
... - [info]doyle, 2009-08-07 02:00 pm UTC
... - [info]doyle, 2009-08-07 02:20 pm UTC
... - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-08 03:41 am UTC
... - [info]jaseroque, 2009-08-08 11:11 am UTC
... - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-10 08:13 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]catmoran, 2009-08-07 03:05 pm UTC
... - [info]breecita, 2009-08-07 05:40 pm UTC
... - [info]_goblin_, 2009-08-07 06:29 pm UTC
... - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-07 07:09 pm UTC
... - [info]puipui, 2009-08-08 08:47 pm UTC
... - [info]jabberwockypie, 2009-08-09 10:20 pm UTC
... - [info]derryderrydown, 2009-08-07 08:23 pm UTC
... - [info]beccastareyes, 2009-08-07 09:37 pm UTC
... - [info]boomstickjones, 2009-08-08 09:37 pm UTC
... - [info]catremistrae, 2009-08-10 04:05 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]keleri, 2009-08-07 10:30 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]cygnia, 2009-08-07 07:39 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-07 01:50 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]napalmnacey, 2009-08-07 05:42 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-10 08:25 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]dana, 2009-08-08 02:46 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-08 03:59 am UTC
... - [info]dana, 2009-08-08 05:30 am UTC
... - [info]kraken_sleeps, 2009-08-08 03:11 pm UTC
... - [info]dana, 2009-08-09 02:36 am UTC
... - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-10 08:24 am UTC
... - [info]dana, 2009-08-10 08:29 am UTC
... - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-12 01:42 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]cheezit, 2009-08-14 03:19 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-15 03:35 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]phosfate, 2009-08-07 04:33 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]dragonsong12, 2009-08-07 04:36 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]_goblin_, 2009-08-07 06:22 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sunhawk, 2009-08-07 07:07 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]veleda_k, 2009-08-07 10:40 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]exdee, 2009-08-08 03:05 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]veleda_k, 2009-08-08 03:53 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]shadowmonkey, 2009-08-07 11:19 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]alcesx2, 2009-08-08 12:18 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sisterelwood, 2009-08-08 12:45 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]alcesx2, 2009-08-08 01:02 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sisterelwood, 2009-08-08 12:47 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 04:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdeep, 2009-08-08 07:19 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]chikane, 2009-08-08 10:01 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]damien, 2009-08-08 01:52 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - owlrigh, 2009-08-09 10:40 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]mari4212, 2009-08-20 03:38 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]puipui, 2009-08-08 08:43 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]galletas, 2009-08-09 12:25 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]lillyv, 2009-08-09 04:16 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]cyndra_falin, 2009-08-09 04:22 am UTC
a picture for your thousand words - [info]randomsome1, 2009-08-09 04:26 am UTC
Re: a picture for your thousand words - [info]lillyv, 2009-08-09 04:34 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]lukita, 2009-08-09 07:34 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]rotten_fish, 2009-08-10 03:00 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]honorh, 2009-08-17 12:56 pm UTC

[info]chikane
2009-08-07 11:19 am UTC (link)

"women are every bit as capable of writing mindblowing sf as men are, but with women the stories concentrate far more on people, life, society and not the hard-scientific concepts I was looking for".


Somehow, stories not concentrating a fair bit on people, life, and society sound terribly BORING to me. Sure, reading about experimental physics can be interesting - in a scientific paper.

But then, I'm just a poor, stupid woman.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - janegray, 2009-08-07 10:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2009-08-09 05:36 am UTC

[info]calatha
2009-08-07 11:34 am UTC (link)
Won't anyone think of the lettuce? :(

(Reply to this)


[info]charamei
2009-08-07 01:44 pm UTC (link)
Gee, with attitudes like this, I wonder why more women can't break into hard SF publishing!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]istaerlus, 2009-08-08 04:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]boomstickjones, 2009-08-08 09:47 pm UTC


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