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tetradecimal (tetradecimal) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2009-08-06 16:28:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:authors, isn't it awfully nice to have a penis, racism, recipes in comments, sci-fi people like to fight, sexism, still not funny, writers are often pompous douches

In Failtown, they pay you by the word
This wank brought to you by wank_report.

A bit of context: The Mammoth Book of Mindblowing SF is the next installment in the Mammoth Book anthology series edited by Mike Ashley. Recently, its table of contents, which lists the twenty-one stories and authors that will be included in the book, was posted on the SF Signal website.

Almost immediately, there is some grousing from the peanut gallery -- it seems that not one of the authors included in the lineup are (a)women, or (b)nonwhite. Commenters proceed to point this out, mostly keeping it down to a few sentences and seemingly content to speak up and move on. Luckily, Paul Di Filippo, one of the authors featured in the anthology, arrives on the scene, CAPS LOCK AT THE READY AND BRIMMING WITH RAGE.


"Every single commenter here seems to me to be committing a logical fallacy of tremendous dimension, one so big it distorts entire worldviews:

DEMANDING THAT EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE OF EVERYTHING COMPOSITE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY STATISTICALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COMPOSITION OF THE ENTIRE COSMOS

You know what: a potato field is not likely to contain corn plants. A pine forest might feature an oak or three, but be 99% pine trees. The Beatles were 4 white guys. Sonic Youth has no people of color! My ream of copy paper is all white, with no sheets of lettuce included!"


Reactions range from serious responses to general confusion to "wtf, drama llama?"

But tortured produce comparisons are not enough for Di Filippo, who decides that his argument would be better served by the inclusion of...

Math homework!
"Now, if you got the annual LOCUS survey of books published and pointed out to me that there were N number of anthologies published in 2008 featuring Y number of stories, and that only X percent of these stories were written by folks who were not WASP males, and then you argued that X percent was way too low, I would consider you had the beginnings of a rational argument and gripe."

Accusations of JEALOUS!
"But I have to say that when ANY WRITER (not just female writers or writers of color) complains about being excluded from a venue and cites issues of platonic principle and idealism, I always first posit underlying jealousy and a desire for status underneath all the lofty hypothetical talk."

...Seinfeld?
"The book in question was assembled by a combo of 1) and 2). Obviously, Mike Ashley recalled only stories by men and invited stories only from males. (Or possibly, invited women who did not respond or qualify.) This resulted in a men-only book. Is this sexism, or is it a function of the phenomenon illustrated in the SEINFELD episode of the big-breasted waitresses? Elaine was incensed that a certain diner featured only big-breasted waitresses--until she discovered that all the women were the owner's daughters. In other words, what seemed to be sexism was "family bias." Mike relied on his "family connections," to the dead or living. And that family included no women. Limited family maybe, but sexism? Your call."

But for those who haven't yet drowned in the sea of abortive analogies, Di Filippo ramps it up to 11:

"Come, come, now, Tempest! Are not potatoes and trees a beautiful, vital part of Gaia? Just as Walt Whitman (a male, but forgivable since gay) wanted to be reincarnated as humble grass, so too do I myself dream someday of being a tree or potato--if I am not one already.

And in a shifty debating technique, you neglect to mention my implicit comparison with Kim Gordon. Kim Gordon, man! Like, punk, you know? (Am I "with it" yet?)"

"My Failboat has been sunk! I go down bravely yet moronically at the helm. Farewell, dear world!

Actually, all this useless talk has diverted me from working on a new story. For a Mike Ashley anthology! Yes, it's true. The Secret Masters are continuing their malicious depradations. My protagonist, however, is a Person of Color. This choice was made ages ago. I hope this might in some small way exculpate my sins."


Tempest:
"... I fail to understand how being gay makes Walt Whitman "forgiveable". I guess you're implying that someone around here has said that men are bad? But I guess you think those imaginary people would think gay men are okay because... they like other men? I... really, I'm trying to see the logic here and missing it. Explain, please."

Lori S.:
"Paul, your argument about personal stakes might be more effective (and sound bushels less defensive to boot) if *your* name wasn't in the TOC."

Luke Jackson: (in defense of the author)
"Congratulations on speaking some against-the-grain sense in the midst of a mindless stampede. I know it can be hard speaking up against the lemmings."

Mike Ashley, in his capacity as editor, tries to address the conflict, but sadly manages to tack on his opinion that "women are every bit as capable of writing mindblowing sf as men are, but with women the stories concentrate far more on people, life, society and not the hard-scientific concepts I was looking for".

Back on SF Signal, Di Filippo grows weary of answering comments, and urges people to engage him over email instead for even more tl;dr punishment. Rosefox takes him up on his offer, resulting in a super-special moment for everyone involved:

"You will never get any private or public repentance from me. At least not until someone on the "other side" offers the same, and does it first, considering that their moronic arguments preceded my moronic arguments."

"You have always struck me and continue to strike me as a sincere wisher-of-goodness for the field. Others in "your camp" appear to me to be repugnant and dangerous combinations of Jerry Falwell, Savonarola, Osama bin Laden, Bill O'Reilly and Aimee Semple McPherson. To such, I will never bow my head."


ETA: (thanks, [info]varpstone): The Angry Black Woman weighs in. And there was much rejoicing.


(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

*without html errors
[info]owlrigh
2009-08-07 07:04 am UTC (link)
What's Hard SF? "A good definition of Hard SF would be that branch of Science Fiction in which the events in the story could conceivably happen in the universe as we know it, the science and technology as plausible as possible, and that there no (or at least very few) glaring errors of fact, such as could easily be checked using standard reference material." [ source ]

"Hard science fiction is a category of science fiction characterized by an emphasis on scientific or technical detail, or on scientific accuracy, or on both. [ source ]

"'Hard' SF is that part of the genre which has a firm grounding in Science/Maths, or an extrapolation of current scientific thoughts." source ]

What I'm not seeing are people coming up with a huge list of female hard SF writers to prove Di Filippo/Ashley completely wrong. I had a poke around the net and came up with a couple of links:

http://badgerbag.livejournal.com/119313.html

A transcript of a Wiscon panel on women and hard sf, which I will notice does not have many names at all. Five, with many caveats.

http://www.mikebrotherton.com/?p=1069

More names, but I raise my eyebrows at the likes of, say, Asaro? Maybe because I am more familiar with her romantic SF works. I always thought she was more of a romance writer, myself, albeit one I enjoy.

Hard SF writers are, for the most part, male. They're scientists, mathematicians [1] [ 2 ], physicists [ 1 ] [ 2 ] [ 3 ], engineers, astronomers, computer scientist. I could go on; here's a list of hard sf writers I used: http://www.hardsf.org/SuggBkLt.htm

These professions are highly under-represented by women, and while I shan't speculate upon the reasons for why this is, I can come up with a reason for why the women who are in these professions may not be writing: they are married.

At this point it will be said: the blokes are married too! But, whereas the chaps come home to a rummy warm fire and dinner on the table, their female counterparts have, in all likelihood, been working hard all day, and if studies in other professions are to go by, even harder to make up for the supposed 'women are not as good as men' bias.

If my own man is anything to go by, (and we both work full-time), when I come home I'm supposed to make dinner, do the dishes, wake him up with full breakfast, do the laundry. These things only happen when I feel like it, but if you add children to the mix with a large workload, then you've got no time to yourself at all, other than -- if you're into SF -- to sit down with that book you've been meaning to read and get in a few pages.

There's gone your few women in the industry, any potential women hard SF writers. Then you may have the ones who ARE doing it, and then get told by editors, "hey, maybe if you add a romance element" or whatever, being that the writer's a woman and they think there should be a social element, because "women don't write hard sf" and then they don't make the grade. Who knows.

Chris Moriarty's take on Hard SF: http://www.chrismoriarty.com/hard-sf.html

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: *without html errors
[info]delarina
2009-08-07 08:34 am UTC (link)
Yes, but what are your thoughts on...? Actually, you know what, never mind.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *without html errors
[info]doyle
2009-08-07 11:39 am UTC (link)
Yeah. *is a somewhat bemused single, female scientist*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-07 11:52 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]doyle, 2009-08-07 12:00 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]doyle, 2009-08-07 12:20 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-08 01:41 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]jaseroque, 2009-08-08 09:11 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-10 06:13 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]catmoran, 2009-08-07 01:05 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]breecita, 2009-08-07 03:40 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]_goblin_, 2009-08-07 04:29 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-08-07 05:09 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]puipui, 2009-08-08 06:47 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]jabberwockypie, 2009-08-09 08:20 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]derryderrydown, 2009-08-07 06:23 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]beccastareyes, 2009-08-07 07:37 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]boomstickjones, 2009-08-08 07:37 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]catremistrae, 2009-08-10 02:05 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]keleri, 2009-08-07 08:30 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors
[info]cygnia
2009-08-07 05:39 pm UTC (link)
Yaoi + "Hard" Science = *me giggling like a 4th grader*

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]sqbr
2009-08-07 11:50 am UTC (link)
*twitches*
*reminds self this is not unfunny business, and that life is short*
*doesn't ask your opinions on the "logical" reasons for the absence of POC men*

I find your list of hard sf books amusing, if Culture novels and "Pushing Ice" count as accurate science then I can list you many female hard sf authors, such as Anne McAffery and anyone who's written Star Wars fanfic.

*goes off to read some Ted Chiang*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *without html errors - [info]napalmnacey, 2009-08-07 03:42 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-10 06:25 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]dana, 2009-08-08 12:46 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-08 01:59 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]dana, 2009-08-08 03:30 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]kraken_sleeps, 2009-08-08 01:11 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]dana, 2009-08-09 12:36 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-10 06:24 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]dana, 2009-08-10 06:29 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-12 11:42 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]cheezit, 2009-08-14 01:19 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]sqbr, 2009-08-15 01:35 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors
[info]phosfate
2009-08-07 02:33 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, can't read this, fixing my man's supper.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]dragonsong12
2009-08-07 02:36 pm UTC (link)
This is absolutely fascinating.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]_goblin_
2009-08-07 04:22 pm UTC (link)
Well, that was a lot of words to come to no particular point.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]sunhawk
2009-08-07 05:07 pm UTC (link)
Are you high?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]veleda_k
2009-08-07 08:40 pm UTC (link)
From this comment, I scientifically deduce that you think Alan is hot. This is true.

(Or has that meme reached it sell by date?)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *without html errors - [info]exdee, 2009-08-08 01:05 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]veleda_k, 2009-08-08 01:53 am UTC
Re: *without html errors
[info]shadowmonkey
2009-08-07 09:19 pm UTC (link)
Congratulations, you sound idiotic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]alcesx2
2009-08-07 10:18 pm UTC (link)
Well just cause you married a lazy ass douchbag doesn't mean others were as stupid to do the same.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *without html errors - [info]sisterelwood, 2009-08-07 10:45 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]alcesx2, 2009-08-07 11:02 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors
[info]sisterelwood
2009-08-07 10:47 pm UTC (link)
Wow, is everyone chugging the entitlement juice this week or something?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]istaerlus
2009-08-08 02:31 am UTC (link)
Not every woman is married honey.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]missdeep
2009-08-08 05:19 am UTC (link)
Wow.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]chikane
2009-08-08 08:01 am UTC (link)
Oh, I guess there are almost no homosexual hard sci-fi writers because, uhm...SUPPER that both have to cook for each other all the time.

And I'm sure the non-white male writers just lack a suitably docile wife to support that awesome hard sci-fi writing they could otherwise do.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]damien
2009-08-08 11:52 am UTC (link)
Octavia Butler & Connie Willis, if you want two fast recs for rocktastic female sci-fi writers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *without html errors - [info]owlrigh, 2009-08-09 08:40 am UTC
Re: *without html errors - [info]mari4212, 2009-08-20 01:38 pm UTC
Re: *without html errors
[info]puipui
2009-08-08 06:43 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for sharing your complaints about your marriage. Your husband sounds like an asshole. I'd recommend that you get a divorce, except that you sound like an asshole, too, so obviously you were meant for each other.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]galletas
2009-08-08 10:25 pm UTC (link)
OK!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]lillyv
2009-08-09 02:16 am UTC (link)
MATH IS HARD! LET'S GO SHOPPING!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]cyndra_falin
2009-08-09 02:22 am UTC (link)
Is your head up your ass for warmth? Oh wait. You're stupid. Got it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

a picture for your thousand words
[info]randomsome1
2009-08-09 02:26 am UTC (link)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: a picture for your thousand words - [info]lillyv, 2009-08-09 02:34 am UTC
Re: *without html errors
[info]lukita
2009-08-09 05:34 am UTC (link)
Damn, there's an engineer in my family who needs to get married and pop out kids stat.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]rotten_fish
2009-08-10 01:00 am UTC (link)
If my own man is anything to go by, (and we both work full-time), when I come home I'm supposed to make dinner, do the dishes, wake him up with full breakfast, do the laundry. These things only happen when I feel like it, but if you add children to the mix with a large workload, then you've got no time to yourself at all, other than -- if you're into SF -- to sit down with that book you've been meaning to read and get in a few pages.

*Jedi hand-wave* You want to go home and rethink your life.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: *without html errors
[info]honorh
2009-08-17 10:56 am UTC (link)
Fascinating, but totally missing the point of the wank, which is DiFilippo's failtastic analogies about paper, lettuce and why there are only apples in his fruit basket when I want a peach.

Also, you might want to renegotiate with that man of yours. He sounds like a clod in need of a wake-up call. Sans breakfast.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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