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duraniedrama ([info]duraniedrama) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2009-12-10 19:26:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:person: john scalzi

Black Matrix Publishing v. John Scalzi, or, Five Hundred Words For a Buck
So there's a new publisher called Black Matrix Publishing that's planning four new magazines and two new book lines.

They're offering one-fifth of a cent per word for First Serial Rights.

John Scalzi is not impressed.

Black Matrix whines that they're not really a pro market. (Even if they are set up as an LLC and appear to be a for-profit business.)

Scalzi remains unimpressed.

Some of the responses Scalzi gets in his blog (about how getting into pro markets is haaaaard and everybody has to start somewheeeeere) provoke him to speak further on what he describes as "Aspiring Writer Stockholm Syndrome."

A guest post on SF Signal by one Jennifer Brissett provides a textbook example of such.

There are probably a few more links out there about this debacle, but these are the ones I know of right now. (What can I say, I loves me some Scalzi. One of these days, I might even buy one of his books.)

EDIT: Discussion on Absolute Write forums here. (Thanks to [info]anarchicq for the tip.)

EDIT2: I knew I missed something. This was Scalzi's "presumably final notes" on the matter, though I'll add that this was before Brissett's tantrum was thrown and Scalzi saw fit to respond to it. (Thanks to [info]ladyrogue for pointing it out.)



(Post a new comment)


tetradecimal
2009-12-11 04:37 am UTC (link)
For perspective on this, back in the 1920s, Hugo Gernsback, who was notorious for paying his authors poorly, was paying his science fiction writers a quarter of a penny a word. So these people at Black Matrix Publishing are paying 20% less for their fiction than an editor who famous for being cheap eighty years ago.

Now that's progress! Damn.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]hallidae
2009-12-11 04:48 am UTC (link)
My jaw dropped a bit at that part.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ari_o
2009-12-11 06:13 am UTC (link)
Still better than being paid in a free copy and some bad wine.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-12-11 03:39 pm UTC

[info]msilverstar
2009-12-11 10:08 am UTC (link)
That's completely boggling!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]yoritomo_reiko
2009-12-11 12:59 pm UTC (link)
I know it's not quite the same sort of thing, but Dickens was paid a penny a word, too. Admittedly, he was pretty famous at the same time.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]charamei, 2009-12-11 01:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-12-11 03:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wallflower, 2009-12-11 04:46 pm UTC

[info]telophase
2009-12-11 07:39 pm UTC (link)
It's even worse. One 1925 penny is worth somewhere in the vicinity of $1.50 today. So Gernsback was paying the 2009 equivalent of about $.37/word back then.

(I used this calculator for the conversion.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]fern_on_fen, 2009-12-11 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telophase, 2009-12-11 07:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vitalitat, 2009-12-11 08:41 pm UTC

[info]sarracenia
2009-12-11 04:49 am UTC (link)
You know, I'm all for amateur markets and all, but there comes a point where it would be less insulting to not pay anything.

(Reply to this)


[info]phosfate
2009-12-11 04:55 am UTC (link)
Didn't somebody make the Jennifer Brissett argument in the recent Harlequin vanity press wank? "But it's harrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd to get in print!" Yes. Yes, it is. Your point?

Considering the quality of a lot of the pro novels I've read this year, I find myself wishing it were even harder.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-12-11 05:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-12-11 06:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-12-11 06:15 am UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-12-11 03:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-12-11 03:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-12-11 03:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonsong12, 2009-12-11 04:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-12-11 04:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonsong12, 2009-12-11 04:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lilitu93, 2009-12-11 10:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2009-12-12 05:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkling, 2009-12-11 06:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-12-11 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarkasm, 2009-12-11 08:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkling, 2009-12-12 02:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarkasm, 2009-12-12 03:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkling, 2009-12-12 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-12-11 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]braisinhussy, 2009-12-12 01:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkling, 2009-12-12 02:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]papervolcano, 2009-12-12 11:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smashingstars, 2009-12-11 07:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]magnolia_mama, 2009-12-11 01:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-12-11 03:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-12-11 05:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fern_on_fen, 2009-12-11 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-12-11 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-12-11 05:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkling, 2009-12-11 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-12-11 07:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-12-11 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkling, 2009-12-12 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]usagivindaloo, 2009-12-11 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-12-11 09:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2009-12-11 09:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-12-11 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2009-12-12 05:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2009-12-11 07:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hauen, 2009-12-12 03:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2009-12-12 06:14 am UTC

[info]frequentmouse
2009-12-11 05:18 am UTC (link)
It's really hard not to join the Cult of Scalzi; he's got a permanent thread on his blog for discussion of SGU, even though about 50% of the people who write there don't like the show at all (or are dreadfully confused by it).

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bacon_lover, 2009-12-11 07:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-12-11 09:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-12-11 03:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-12-11 03:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snarkhunter, 2009-12-11 03:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-12-11 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-12-11 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-12-11 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smashingstars, 2009-12-11 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amadi, 2009-12-12 01:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-12-11 09:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shadowmonkey, 2009-12-11 01:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2009-12-11 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-12-11 07:42 pm UTC

[info]lady_ganesh
2009-12-11 05:25 am UTC (link)
Wow, the Black Matrix stuff is fugly.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]duraniedrama, 2009-12-11 05:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-12-11 03:42 pm UTC

[info]anarchicq
2009-12-11 05:32 am UTC (link)
Huh, I JUST saw this on the Absolute Write forums.

(Reply to this)


mockygogo
2009-12-11 05:47 am UTC (link)
"Aspiring Writer Stockholm Syndrome" indeed, unfortunately.

That's like when professional (as in, makes their living entirely doing it, no day job whatsoever) artists get called on to basically donate art for comic books or cover art for books and get the "your payment is that you get your name on the cover! Isn't that special?" bit.

No, it's not. That's like telling your doctor you'll pay him in recommendations to your friends on your blog, or you'll pay your grocer by continuing to shop there.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2009-12-11 03:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2009-12-11 10:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkling, 2009-12-11 06:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2009-12-11 07:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]usagivindaloo, 2009-12-11 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - mockygogo, 2009-12-12 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]duraniedrama, 2009-12-13 12:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]reeve, 2009-12-11 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sneer, 2009-12-11 09:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zing_och, 2009-12-11 11:14 pm UTC

[info]ari_o
2009-12-11 06:34 am UTC (link)
I didn't know Aspiring Writer was a proper noun.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2009-12-11 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-12-11 09:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2009-12-11 09:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2009-12-11 11:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2009-12-11 11:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2009-12-13 04:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]talec, 2009-12-12 03:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2009-12-12 09:08 am UTC

[info]squeakytoy
2009-12-11 09:01 am UTC (link)
I read that SF Signal post today and thought about finding Jennifer Brissett's email and asking if she wanted a new shovel so she could keep digging her grave.

I'm with Scalzi on this: it's dodgy brothers to sell to your customers like a business, but to pay your vendors as though it's a hobby.

(Reply to this)


[info]moongazingfae
2009-12-11 11:33 am UTC (link)
One fifth of a cent. Per word?! Basic rates for translators here tend to be around five to fifteen pence per word, from what I've seen! A translation of a 1000-word document by a qualified translator would cost around 100 pounds, possibly rather more. How on earth can these people justify paying original authors - amateur or not - that little?!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ellensmithee, 2009-12-11 02:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zing_och, 2009-12-11 06:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telophase, 2009-12-11 08:02 pm UTC

[info]alya1989262
2009-12-11 02:58 pm UTC (link)
For even more perspective, I did some translation work 3 years ago for my aunt, and she paid me half the pro rate at the time. That was about $2 per 500 words, so double the rate these guys are paying for original fiction. And I live in a third world country. Good God.

(Reply to this)


[info]lady7jane
2009-12-11 03:11 pm UTC (link)
Let's see, once again, what Harlan Ellison has to say about it. It's so damn funny.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2009-12-11 05:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-12-11 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2009-12-11 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2009-12-11 09:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]talec, 2009-12-12 03:47 am UTC
Reposted due to HTML fail
[info]ladyrogue
2009-12-11 05:04 pm UTC (link)
FYI, he's posted his final thoughts on the matter.

Also, in the comments, someone posted two funny and vaguely disturbing pictures of Scalzi's head on two robots.

(Reply to this)


[info]schoenschoen
2009-12-11 05:12 pm UTC (link)
I didn't really understand exactly how much they're fucking the writers (although the comparisons to translation work did help, thanks) until I looked at what they're paying the artists:

Payment for the magazine cover is currently set at $50.00 (same payment applies to book covers), and $10.00 for each B&W interiior illustration

EXCUSE ME? You could get more for a cheap colored pencil sketch of Vegeta at an anime convention's Art Show.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-12-11 05:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2009-12-11 05:48 pm UTC
in which I froth and wank in black matrix' general direction - [info]bigbigtruck, 2009-12-11 06:58 pm UTC
Re: in which I froth and wank in black matrix' general direction - [info]telophase, 2009-12-11 08:06 pm UTC
Re: in which I froth and wank in black matrix' general direction - [info]bigbigtruck, 2009-12-11 08:09 pm UTC
Re: in which I froth and wank in black matrix' general direction - [info]lady_ganesh, 2009-12-11 08:49 pm UTC
Re: in which I froth and wank in black matrix' general direction - [info]sneer, 2009-12-11 09:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zing_och, 2009-12-11 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-12-11 09:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2009-12-11 10:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2009-12-14 10:02 pm UTC

[info]kirsten
2009-12-11 05:28 pm UTC (link)
I would rather post on FF.net or FictionPress for free, you know, just to avoid adding insult to injury.

Not that I am a FOR SERIOUS writer anyhow...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

OT: - [info]persona, 2009-12-11 06:47 pm UTC
Re: OT: - [info]kirsten, 2009-12-11 06:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sneer, 2009-12-11 09:35 pm UTC

[info]issendai
2009-12-11 05:46 pm UTC (link)
Arg, Aspiring Writer Stockholm Syndrome. You get it in nonfiction, too. I do SEO writing for various companies online, including one that sells itself as a Real Live Encyclopedia-Quality Publisher that hires only Real Writers. Every few months it takes it upon itself to demand something new and outrageous of its authors, usually something highly unprofessional. And every single time, people who complain in the forums are met by hordes of eager writers scolding them for being ungrateful, then assuring the site owners that THEY understand how hard it is and THEY are duly grateful for the opportunities offered them. It's usually the ones with the fewest writing credits who wag their tails the hardest; the few writers who make pro or semipro rates stand on the sidelines going, "Uh... Guys? This is not the best publication in the world and you don't have to be grateful to them for buying your work. It's a business. That's how it works. Really." They usually get plowed under by sycophants. It's painful to watch.

Incidentally, those writers are paid roughly 3 cents a word. Serious pro rates start at about 10 cents a word and go up to several dollars a word; hack rates used to be 1 cent a word and are now half a cent per word, meaning that even the worst-paid SEO writers still make more than Black Matrix pays its authors.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]usagivindaloo, 2009-12-11 07:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]usagivindaloo, 2009-12-11 07:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2009-12-11 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]usagivindaloo, 2009-12-11 08:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2009-12-12 05:12 pm UTC
*SQUEE* - [info]usagivindaloo, 2009-12-13 02:31 am UTC

[info]zing_och
2009-12-11 07:06 pm UTC (link)
They want to sell the magazine for 10 dollars, too, while the established magazines cost 5, apparently. Nice way of being non-profit.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2009-12-11 08:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zing_och, 2009-12-11 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]duraniedrama, 2009-12-11 09:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zing_och, 2009-12-11 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2009-12-11 09:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sneer, 2009-12-11 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]duraniedrama, 2009-12-11 10:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindentreeisle, 2009-12-18 10:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindentreeisle, 2009-12-18 11:00 pm UTC

[info]misachan
2009-12-11 11:24 pm UTC (link)
The best thing about the whole kerfuffle was when they started throwing out worthwile small markets in the SF Signal post. I took notes for the future. Thanks for the researching help, interwebs!

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2009-12-12 12:50 am UTC (link)
At those kind of rates you'd make more money setting up a blog for your fiction and running Google Adsense on it, even given how low the clicks on a typical Adsense account tend to be.

-tim gueguen

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]anarchicq, 2009-12-12 04:07 am UTC

[info]feenix
2009-12-13 08:17 pm UTC (link)
I had to think about this for a while until I realized that a short novel would probably be worth about 100 bucks to these guys, give or take a few.

Jesus.

Not only that, isn't a 15k word story approximately...um...60 pages, at least? If not longer? Okay, maybe 30 or 40, depending on the page format, but still - that's a substantial story. And they're valuing that at $30?! And think that's a good paying rate?

(Reply to this)


 
   
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