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	Do ya think teaqueenie 2010-01-16 11:37 pm UTC (link)
	Do you think VB was female when Turi knew him/was scammed and that explains it? I do think Turi's motivation is to hurt VB and nothing else matters. Me personally, I'm glad refer to VB as a him because it keeps him away from my gender. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Do ya think jupiterpluvius 2010-01-16 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	The thing is that Amy Player at one time self-presented as female. Using a female pronoun for something Amy Player did in the past, when Amy Player was self-presenting as Amy Player, might be understandable. But saying "Andrew Blake, she is doing this" is just arrant transfail. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Do ya think lady_ganesh 2010-01-17 03:39 am UTC (link)
	This. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Do ya think

sorchar
2010-01-17 05:48 am UTC (link)

He was. But he was female when most of us first heard of him, and most of us have made the switch to male pronouns just fine. I was holding out because I didn't know whether he was honestly trans or it was just part of another con - then I discovered that it didn't matter to the other trans folks around here, that it was offending them for people to still refer to Andy as "she" regardless of his motivations. So I switched.

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	Re: Do ya think cmdr_zoom 2010-01-17 07:19 am UTC (link)
	This, right here. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Do ya think feenix 2010-01-17 07:43 am UTC (link)
	Seconded. It took me a while, too, but hey, now I'm confused on how to refer to his past actions now. (Because it's just plain weird to go, "Victoria Bitter...he," "Amy Player...he," so on and so forth.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Do ya think

ari_o
2010-01-17 08:08 am UTC (link)

Actually this point was clarified in the first or second round of this most recent wank. You always refer to a transgendered person by the gender he or she is transitioning to because they have always been that gender even if they didn't completely know it themselves on a conscious level. They always knew something wasn't right. Referring to Andy as "she" when he was presenting as female is essentially saying the transgender is a choice and it is not.

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	Re: Do ya think sandglass 2010-01-17 06:23 am UTC (link)
	Turi knows that VB wants to be called a him, and (AFAIK) agreed to call him by the proper pronoun, then went back on it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Do ya think ari_o 2010-01-17 08:05 am UTC (link)
	I get easily confused, but I don't think she ever agreed to it or she retreated immediately if she did. She said she wasn't going to call him by the right pronoun because she thought that gave him some kind of power. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Do ya think oulangi 2010-01-17 08:23 am UTC (link)
	Pronoun Power, yo. It's what the Justice League's been missing. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Do ya think ari_o 2010-01-17 08:28 am UTC (link)
	Did I tell you I met a friend in a tea shop in Chelsea and was sitting next to Anderson Cooper and it was very weird because he so pretty, but I carefully did not look at him because he was just having some tea with a friend. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Do ya think

dico
2010-01-17 04:07 pm UTC (link)

Back on an Amy Player journal, Amy's last entry said he was coming to terms with being a transman, and I believe Turi asked by which pronoun he wanted to be known. Amy replied with, "The masculine, please," and Turi agreed to it or went with it or didn't argue or whatever.

At least that's my recollection. The link is back on I believe the first post of the newest wank, in one of many, many attempts to stop the fucking transfail. So it wasn't in the recent wank, it was way back when, in a simpler time. Like 2006 or something. Man, remember 2006?

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	Re: Do ya think ari_o 2010-01-18 12:23 am UTC (link)
	D: (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Do ya think dico 2010-01-18 12:25 am UTC (link)
	I know, I miss 2006 too, but it's gone now. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Do ya think derryderrydown 2010-01-18 02:59 pm UTC (link)
	Don't worry - it's only another ten years or so before 2006 comes back into fashion! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Do ya think derryderrydown 2010-01-18 02:59 pm UTC (link)
	My mind-reading hat tells me that Turi's doing it to hurt AB and either isn't aware or doesn't care that she's hurting every other trans person as a result. I'm hoping the former but strongly suspect the latter. (It's hard being an optimistic cynic, you know. I live in hope that the world isn't as bad as I know it is.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Do ya think redwarrior 2010-01-18 08:31 pm UTC (link)
	I think so as well. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Do ya think ari_o 2010-01-19 02:09 am UTC (link)
	My conversation with Turi and also what she's posted in her LJ say the same. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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