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pinkranger ([info]pinkranger) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2010-01-28 17:04:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:comics, webcomics

Jules Rivera, author of the webcomic Mash Rocket, posted an article to Comic Related a couple of months ago titled What qualifies as art in webcomics. Comics such as XKCD, Order of the Stick and Surviving the World are called lazy and crap. Jules even recommends hiring an overseas artist because their work is beautiful and "affordable."

Well, Dante from Surviving the World saw this two months later and decided to defend this new wave of webcomic mediums with a well thought out and executed argument. Some of his fans, however, not-so-much, and soon go to the two month article to share their opinion on the topic, as well as Jules' comic and art style (just scroll through the comments to see them, there's too many to choose from).

ETA: Spell-checked by grammar-freaky boyfriend!

ETA 2: Apparently, while I've been sleeping, there's been a bit of fighting on Dante's and Jules' twitter pages. Here's a classy little response from Jules

@danteshepherd if youre going to act like a child about this (as you clearly have) I rescind my offer and my apology. You are a lazy bastard




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[info]knightrider
2010-01-29 12:56 am UTC (link)
Does anyone really think xkcd would somehow be improved with "better" artwork?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]fanpoodlex, 2010-01-29 12:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]watersword, 2010-01-29 01:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-01-29 01:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2010-01-29 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]watersword, 2010-01-29 01:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2010-01-29 01:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]galateus, 2010-01-29 02:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2010-01-29 02:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2010-01-29 05:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]t_boy, 2010-01-29 06:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 07:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beejium, 2010-01-29 08:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kelschuu, 2010-01-29 11:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]myluckyseven, 2010-01-30 12:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]randomsome1, 2010-01-29 01:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 04:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]galateus, 2010-01-29 05:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2010-01-29 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ms_treesap, 2010-01-29 03:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]knightrider, 2010-01-29 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 01:58 am UTC
OT - [info]seca, 2010-01-29 04:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-01-29 09:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mary_mac, 2010-01-29 12:02 pm UTC

[info]mer1973
2010-01-29 12:57 am UTC (link)
Hey, it's a twofer! Not only did he miss the point, he reacted badly to a paradigm change in his art form!

(Reply to this)


[info]iczer6
2010-01-29 12:59 am UTC (link)
Of course there's no good art in XKCD or creativity or inventiveness in OOTS.

Note the second linked comic might be a spoiler to new readers.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2010-01-29 01:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2010-01-29 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2010-01-29 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the__ivorytower, 2010-01-29 01:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nursewretched, 2010-01-29 03:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thebratqueen, 2010-01-29 06:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashenmote, 2010-01-29 12:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2010-01-29 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bravest_spinja, 2010-01-30 12:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2010-01-29 01:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2010-01-29 01:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2010-01-29 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2010-01-29 01:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]knightrider, 2010-01-29 01:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-01-29 01:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2010-01-29 03:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-01-29 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2010-01-29 04:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 04:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maryaminx, 2010-01-31 04:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2010-01-29 01:21 am UTC

[info]bigbigtruck
2010-01-29 01:11 am UTC (link)
Oh boy do I love* Decisions On What Is And Is Not Art, delivered from an armchair.


*loathe

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2010-01-29 02:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2010-01-29 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2010-01-29 03:49 am UTC

[info]agent_hyatt
2010-01-29 01:11 am UTC (link)
I am disappointed. Why is there no slam against Darths & Droids, huh? Since it's doubly unoriginal by being a movie webcomic and a Follow The Leader of DM of the Rings while arguably being better than both, it should be at the top of his shit list!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pinkranger, 2010-01-29 01:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-01-29 01:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]omgpolarbear, 2010-01-29 02:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2010-01-29 03:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]knightrider, 2010-01-29 01:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]neon_umbra, 2010-01-29 04:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2010-01-31 01:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]neon_umbra, 2010-01-31 02:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2010-01-31 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]neon_umbra, 2010-02-01 04:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-01-29 02:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 02:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fishies, 2010-01-29 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pingin_tango, 2010-01-29 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 03:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-01-29 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]miraba, 2010-01-29 05:14 am UTC

[info]gabriel
2010-01-29 01:14 am UTC (link)
Their. Their work.

Sorry, can't read this, too busy twitching.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pinkranger, 2010-01-29 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacelogic, 2010-01-29 01:45 am UTC

[info]iris
2010-01-29 01:45 am UTC (link)
I'm just going to sit here and go D: at the thought of Cyanide and Happiness with beautifully drawn artwork.

It's easier to enjoy the dead baby humor when there's that mental disconnect formed by everything being in stick figures! If it had pretty realistic artwork it would stop being "lol" and start being D:

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]stimutacs, 2010-01-29 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iris, 2010-01-29 02:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stimutacs, 2010-01-29 02:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 04:25 am UTC

[info]seiberwing
2010-01-29 01:52 am UTC (link)
XKCD, however, is unabashed laziness, never even having established a regular cast, let alone a diverse one.

Neither did Far Side, and for that matter its art wasn't that impressive. Wonder if she'd hate that.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

And having read the actual wank. - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 02:13 am UTC
Re: And having read the actual wank. - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2010-01-29 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beckyh2112, 2010-01-29 04:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 04:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beckyh2112, 2010-01-29 04:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2010-01-29 05:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thebratqueen, 2010-01-29 06:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ldymusyc, 2010-01-29 06:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]miss_padfoot, 2010-01-29 07:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aliaras, 2010-01-29 12:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-01-29 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kitt_in_socks, 2010-01-30 09:20 am UTC

[info]ari_o
2010-01-29 02:19 am UTC (link)
"Some of his fans, however, not-so-much, and soon go to the two month article to share their opinion on the topic, as well as Jules' comic and art style (just scroll through the comments to see them, there's too many to choose from)."

Did you lose a "go" in there?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2010-01-29 02:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bacon_lover, 2010-01-29 03:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2010-01-29 03:09 am UTC

[info]mmanurere
2010-01-29 02:25 am UTC (link)
This sounds like the guy I knew my first time in college who insisted that something could be called "art" only if the person creating it had academic training in realistic drawing and three-point perspective.

Then I found out that his thesis involved him wearing soiled briefs while dancing around jars of his own feces. But he had academic training in realistic drawing and three-point perspective, so it was art!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2010-01-29 02:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2010-01-29 03:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2010-01-29 05:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maybebaby, 2010-01-29 07:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2010-01-29 08:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maybebaby, 2010-01-29 08:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tangentialone, 2010-01-29 01:06 pm UTC
thoughts on yaoi turned...really disturbing. - [info]snarkhunter, 2010-01-29 03:45 pm UTC
Re: thoughts on yaoi turned...really disturbing. - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-01-29 09:22 pm UTC
Re: thoughts on yaoi turned...really disturbing. - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2010-01-30 04:55 am UTC
Re: thoughts on yaoi turned...really disturbing. - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-01-30 07:43 pm UTC
Re: thoughts on yaoi turned...really disturbing. - [info]trinity_destler, 2010-01-30 07:57 am UTC

[info]dragonfangirl
2010-01-29 02:48 am UTC (link)
Jules even recommends hiring an overseas artist because their work is they are beautiful and "affordable."

Mail-order brides, the secret is out.

(Reply to this)


[info]palabradot
2010-01-29 02:54 am UTC (link)
Damn. I really don't want to know what this guy thinks of Erfworld. Or Gunnerkrigg Court.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2010-01-29 09:46 am UTC

tetradecimal
2010-01-29 03:02 am UTC (link)
Oh god, that last link.

No talent? No problem! Just kick it old school and pay someone else to make your comic for you ♥

That's what responsible, hardworking people do... in AMERICA!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tez, 2010-01-29 09:00 am UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2010-01-29 01:25 pm UTC

[info]arionhunter
2010-01-29 03:06 am UTC (link)
hiring an overseas artist because their work is beautiful and "affordable."

There is a rant on the way this screws non-American artists the fuck over and means they can't speak for themselves. It would be so painfully unfunny that I'm not going to make it.

Instead, I am going to go look at kittens, so I do not leap through the Internet and dropkick Rivera in their privileged face.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]reeve, 2010-01-29 03:33 am UTC

[info]ekaterinv
2010-01-29 03:27 am UTC (link)
So, um, I looked up this Marsh Rocket comic. And I think the art in xkcd and OotS is better. They're both less cluttered, and they have more distinct, original and appealing styles. I think even Darths and Droids uses space more effectively. (An artist would probably know a better way to say that.)

Of course, one of my favorite webcomics is Dinosaur Comics (http://www.qwantz.com/index.php), so perhaps I am just a philistine who likes to be entertained.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2010-01-29 01:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-01-30 03:22 am UTC

[info]brennalarose
2010-01-29 03:33 am UTC (link)
Wait, wait... So, webcomics should always be artistic over just being fun to work on?

Shoot. Guess I'd better tell my friends they've been doing

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2010-01-29 03:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lapiratess, 2010-01-29 04:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2010-01-29 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2010-01-29 02:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-01-29 09:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2010-01-29 10:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-01-30 12:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-01-30 03:22 am UTC
Somebody get Scott McCloud in here!
[info]mcity
2010-01-29 03:39 am UTC (link)
Y'know, talking about what is or isn't art is wankbait in itself. So is calling popular comics bad. Combine them and you have wank2.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Somebody get Scott McCloud in here! - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 04:07 am UTC
Re: Somebody get Scott McCloud in here! - [info]mcity, 2010-01-29 05:58 am UTC

[info]hilohello
2010-01-29 04:09 am UTC (link)
Artistic choices are unartistic.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kyabetsu, 2010-01-29 04:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beckyh2112, 2010-01-29 04:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2010-01-29 05:42 pm UTC

[info]smashingstars
2010-01-29 05:10 am UTC (link)
Okay, we have a creator who's at least making an effort to draw out his or her comic

Jules Rivera wrote the above in reference to all 3 "stick figure" comics, but in OOTS' case, that's not entirely true. Rich Burlew uses cuts 'n' pastes of pre-drawn characters all the time. He has a base character body, and then pastes on the appropriate limbs, facial expressions, etc. So these are figures he drew out once but, the best I can tell after many years of reading it, he never drew them again.

I'm not here to debate the merits of Burlew's art, but since Rivera IS, you'd think s/he would get their basic facts right.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2010-01-29 05:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smashingstars, 2010-01-29 11:36 pm UTC

[info]obvious_sock
2010-01-29 08:22 am UTC (link)
From Jules Rivera in the comments:

However, stick figures as final art is unacceptable. That's like going to your favorite burger joint, ordering a burger and having the server hand you a wad of ground chuck and a bag of flour saying, "We serve our burgers extra raw for minimalist purposes." Unless you're a fan of salmonella, you'd walk right out. Unfortunately, the implications for serving "raw art" aren't nearly as severe, and as a result, readers have become accustomed to the stick art and think it's okay to repeat it.

And stick figure art is hurting... what, exactly?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]varethane, 2010-01-29 08:54 am UTC

[info]varethane
2010-01-29 08:50 am UTC (link)
Ahahahaha I love how this artist-person says 'Creators, unless your writing is so amazing that readers will ignore your art and go straight for the joke, you don't stand a chance.' immediately after talking about XKCD, Cyanide and Happiness, and OotS.

Sooo... 'don't stand a chance' of what? Getting popular? Making tons of money off your work? Entertaining thousands of people, and creating a community built around fans of your work? Because seriously, I'm not seeing the argument here.

Granted, I agree with the sentiment that there are a lot of shittily-drawn webcomics out there that would benefit immensely from better artwork... so why did they just happened to narrow in on the three comics on the entire web of which this is not true? Way to shoot yourself in the foot, Rivera.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]seiberwing, 2010-01-29 11:02 pm UTC

[info]kelschuu
2010-01-29 11:40 am UTC (link)
XKCD, however, is unabashed laziness, never even having established a regular cast, let alone a diverse one.

...Methinks someone is missing the point of XKCD and needs to read a pretentious but educational book about UNDERSTANDING COMICS.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-01-30 03:20 am UTC

[info]tarash
2010-01-29 12:33 pm UTC (link)
"Cyanide and Happiness is even worse because it's far stupider than XKCD."

Okay, I don't know Cyanide and Happiness, but did they just call XKCD stupid? XKCD makes jokes about hardcore science! I can't comprehend someone calling XKCD stupid. Sure, it might not be your cup of tea, but it's not stupid.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-01-30 03:21 am UTC

[info]tangentialone
2010-01-29 01:10 pm UTC (link)
Huh, I hadn't seen Surviving The World before. Is it weird that I think it's really, really quiet?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kitt_in_socks, 2010-01-30 09:26 am UTC

[info]dragonsong12
2010-01-29 03:56 pm UTC (link)
Okay, every time people try to tell me Order of the Stick has bad art, this is my go-to comic to argue.

That's an entire page with no text, and yet each panel is different, you can tell exactly what's happening, and you can follow the story.

Any comic that does that with no text does not have bad art! no matter how simple it may be!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2010-01-29 05:43 pm UTC


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