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duraniedrama ([info]duraniedrama) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2010-02-01 13:27:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:person: john scalzi, publishing

Amazon Does Something Stupid Over The Weekend Again
So, one fine Friday, Amazon abruptly delists all titles by Macmillan. John Scalzi, who has books with Macmillan via Tor Books, notices and is initially puzzled and then increasingly annoyed as the reason for this gradually becomes clear. Amazon has apparently pulled this stunt because Macmillan is demanding that its ebooks be sold at prices of its choosing instead of being forcibly discounted to $9.99 so Amazon can sell more Kindles.

John Sargent of Macmillan runs a paid ad in the Saturday edition of Publisher's Lunch explaining their position.

I told them they could stay with their old terms of sale, but that this would involve extensive and deep windowing of titles.

(I think this is publisher-speak for "sure, you can sell them for $9.99, but we won't be releasing them to you in ebook format until WAY after the initial publication date. You give us paperback prices, you'll get 'em about when the paperback comes out.")

Amazon's repsonse was to delist the Macmillan titles (without actually telling anybody why, mind you, except as an anonymous tip to The New York Times.)

The Twittersphere and blogosphere respond as one would expect. Charles Stross is particularly pissed off. Making Light also has a post about it and there's a thread about it on Absolute Write with some hilarious mansplaining as a guy who knows the vague basics about ebooks doesn't understand why they cost so darn much and gets into it with a woman who has been in the industry for years and knows exactly why they do.

Amazon finally backs down in a public statement on, um, their own message board by the "Amazon Kindle team."

We want you to know that ultimately, however, we will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan's terms because Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles, and we will want to offer them to you even at prices we believe are needlessly high for e-books.

Scalzi sums up the mess in his own snarky style.

Which means he'll probably be the last to get relisted.

There's loads out there, really, but these are the most entertaining highlights, I think.




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[info]fishies
2010-02-01 08:51 pm UTC (link)
"we will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan's terms because Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles"

A monopoly over their own titles? As in control? How could they, those bastards.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2010-02-01 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fishies, 2010-02-01 09:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]la_fono, 2010-02-02 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puppeteer, 2010-02-03 02:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bacon_lover, 2010-02-02 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-02-01 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fishies, 2010-02-01 09:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-02-01 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tangentialone, 2010-02-01 11:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-02-02 11:03 pm UTC

[info]anonyrat
2010-02-01 09:23 pm UTC (link)
ADRIENNE KRESS IS POSTING IN THAT ABSOLUTE WRITE THREAD.

omg.

I have nothing else to say, really.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]yattara, 2010-02-02 04:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anonyrat, 2010-02-03 08:40 am UTC

[info]fern_on_fen
2010-02-01 09:25 pm UTC (link)
Every time I decide, once and for all, that I'm totally going to get a Kindle, Amazon does shit like this...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]gareas, 2010-02-01 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-02-01 09:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tez, 2010-02-02 02:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-02-02 03:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-01 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]breecita, 2010-02-02 05:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fern_on_fen, 2010-02-03 03:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-02-02 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chartyhoax, 2010-02-02 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]threegoldfish, 2010-02-02 04:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-02-03 05:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-03 05:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-02-03 10:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-03 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]threegoldfish, 2010-02-03 12:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2010-02-02 05:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tsubaki, 2010-02-02 06:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-02-02 11:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fern_on_fen, 2010-02-03 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]were_lemur, 2010-02-07 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-02-13 12:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jood, 2010-02-04 08:27 pm UTC

[info]trobadora
2010-02-01 09:26 pm UTC (link)
The monopoly bit is awesome and won't be forgotten soon.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]moosecharmer, 2010-02-08 08:03 am UTC

[info]fashi0n_mistake
2010-02-01 09:28 pm UTC (link)
So I suppose I should feel outraged on behalf of the many authors who were temporarily screwed over by this but I can't stop laughing at how badly Amazon fails at being a corporate.

Amazon, the LJ team is not the ones you want to take pointers on how to run a business from. Just FYI.

(Reply to this)


[info]magnolia_mama
2010-02-01 09:43 pm UTC (link)
Meanwhile, over on Dear Author, they're rooting for Amazon like it's some sort of underdog and threatening to boycott Macmillan authors.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2010-02-01 10:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2010-02-02 12:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2010-02-02 03:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2010-02-02 04:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xturtle, 2010-02-01 10:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-02-02 01:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]magnolia_mama, 2010-02-02 03:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]octavia, 2010-02-02 03:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyvorkosigan, 2010-02-02 04:11 pm UTC

tetradecimal
2010-02-01 09:45 pm UTC (link)
Amazon has to respect the wishes of the people who own their own titles?

*single, shining unicorn tear*

(Reply to this)


[info]ladyophelia14
2010-02-01 09:49 pm UTC (link)
I was at the national conference for the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators this weekend and had a workshop about this. Well, the workshop was about contracts, but this is what we discussed. It was funny, because before the keynote at lunch a guy from publisher relations at Amazon spoke and was buttering us all up about giving us a $25,000 for the WIP grants, and all I could think was sure, and you're totally ripping us off in e-books.

It's true, too. They've only been giving 50% to publishers for e-titles rathe than the usual 70% for other editions. They are going to have to change that though becuase Apple is offering a good faith 70/30 split for the iPad titles.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lostmahmarbles, 2010-02-01 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nibor, 2010-02-01 11:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-02-02 01:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2010-02-02 05:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-02-02 03:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dark_puck, 2010-02-02 01:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2010-02-02 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]duraniedrama, 2010-02-02 01:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beckyh2112, 2010-02-02 06:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sokudoningyou, 2010-02-06 01:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xero_sky, 2010-02-02 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sequinedlizard, 2010-02-02 09:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2010-02-02 01:51 am UTC

[info]sarracenia
2010-02-01 09:57 pm UTC (link)
Man, I want to beat Brian over the head with a clue stick. Talk about Just Not Getting It in the most arrogantly self-righteous way possible.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]varpstone, 2010-02-01 10:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2010-02-01 10:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]varpstone, 2010-02-02 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2010-02-02 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]varpstone, 2010-02-02 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-02-02 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smashingstars, 2010-02-02 01:45 am UTC

[info]zyna_kat
2010-02-01 09:59 pm UTC (link)
Well, one of the reasons I haven't bought a Kindle is because I think the electronic copies are too expensive, so I can kinda see their point. I'm just not going to spend the same amount for an e-copy as I would spend on a hard copy.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bienegold, 2010-02-01 10:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarracenia, 2010-02-01 10:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anatsuno, 2010-02-01 10:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sneer, 2010-02-01 10:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-02-01 10:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]insanityprelude, 2010-02-02 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2010-02-01 11:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2010-02-01 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-02-01 11:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bienegold, 2010-02-02 12:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2010-02-02 12:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2010-02-02 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lil_miss_stfu, 2010-02-02 02:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rikiki, 2010-02-02 05:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2010-02-02 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2010-02-03 08:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2010-02-03 08:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lilitu93, 2010-02-02 02:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]irised, 2010-02-03 07:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tachikoma01, 2010-02-02 03:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-02-02 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2010-02-02 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hitchhiker42, 2010-02-02 01:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-02-02 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vorpal_blade, 2010-02-02 02:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beckyh2112, 2010-02-02 07:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-02 07:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beckyh2112, 2010-02-02 07:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-02 07:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-02-02 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2010-02-03 08:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-02-03 03:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sokudoningyou, 2010-02-06 01:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telegramsam, 2010-02-03 03:24 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]sarracenia, 2010-02-04 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]insanityprelude, 2010-02-02 02:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]demonbean, 2010-02-02 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-02-02 09:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyvorkosigan, 2010-02-02 04:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-02-03 03:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindentreeisle, 2010-02-04 09:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zyna_kat, 2010-02-02 07:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aiwendil, 2010-02-02 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zyna_kat, 2010-02-02 09:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2010-02-02 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zyna_kat, 2010-02-02 09:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2010-02-03 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-02-03 03:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rganymede, 2010-02-02 04:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kirsten, 2010-02-02 06:10 pm UTC

[info]overlord_mordax
2010-02-01 10:16 pm UTC (link)
To be fair, ebook editions *ARE* way over priced; but I think the solution to that is for the publishers to sell ebooks to consumers directly. THe they profit more, while we pay less. :D

Kindle, on the other hand, proves time and time again that it started out fail and it continues to be fail.

I own a Sony PRS 505 Ebook reader. Sony has never tried to take the books anybody bought away from them (unlike Kindle) and can handle about 3 more file types than the Kindle can.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure it has a longer battery life, too.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]anatsuno, 2010-02-01 10:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dez_chan, 2010-02-01 10:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-01 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]heyoka, 2010-02-02 12:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-02 12:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-02-02 09:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wahlee, 2010-02-02 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2010-02-02 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wahlee, 2010-02-02 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2010-02-02 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wahlee, 2010-02-02 01:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-02 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wahlee, 2010-02-02 07:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-02-02 09:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyvorkosigan, 2010-02-02 04:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]huehau, 2010-02-02 05:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wahlee, 2010-02-02 08:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sokudoningyou, 2010-02-06 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]radiotrash, 2010-02-03 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2010-02-05 08:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2010-02-01 10:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-01 10:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amireal, 2010-02-01 10:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]overlord_mordax, 2010-02-01 10:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aloysius, 2010-02-01 10:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]altera, 2010-02-02 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2010-02-02 01:39 am UTC

[info]chrystalline
2010-02-01 10:24 pm UTC (link)
Oh, Amazon. You are not iTunes (though I had the same "Uh, the retailer doesn't dictate prices to the wholesaler" reaction to their doing the same thing to the record companies), and people are still irritated with you over the POD thing.

That said, I've refused to buy ebooks because I can get paperbacks for the same price, and those won't go bye-bye if my computer crashes. I will buy from Baen, though. Reasonable prices and open formats = yay!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2010-02-01 11:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quantumreality, 2010-02-01 11:28 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]quantumreality, 2010-02-05 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shadowmonkey, 2010-02-02 01:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chrystalline, 2010-02-02 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shadowmonkey, 2010-02-02 03:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tephra, 2010-02-02 03:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyvorkosigan, 2010-02-02 04:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tephra, 2010-02-02 06:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chrystalline, 2010-02-02 11:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seanchaigirl, 2010-02-03 03:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kaen, 2010-02-02 05:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]insanityprelude, 2010-02-02 03:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2010-02-02 03:46 am UTC

[info]monty
2010-02-01 10:41 pm UTC (link)
with some hilarious mansplaining as a guy who knows the vague basics about ebooks doesn't understand why they cost so darn much and gets into it with a woman who has been in the industry for years and knows exactly why they do.

That discussion is fantastic.

(Reply to this)


[info]mister_terrific
2010-02-01 10:45 pm UTC (link)
Between this and last year's great failure, one has to wonder who the hell is running Amazon, to say nothing of who's running their PR department.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2010-02-01 10:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-02-02 03:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2010-02-02 08:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2010-02-01 11:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-02-02 05:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]uldihaa, 2010-02-02 03:54 pm UTC

[info]jupiterpluvius
2010-02-01 10:47 pm UTC (link)
Mary Robinette Kowal's review of the Kindle is SQUEE-TASTIC!

(Reply to this)


[info]annathepiper
2010-02-01 10:47 pm UTC (link)
I have been riveted by this entire explosion all weekend. I'm an ebook author as well as a voracious devourer of shiny, shiny ebooks, so this is about as Relevant to My Interests as it's possible to get without setting the whole thing to a soundtrack of Great Big Sea music.

And man, it's making me feel better about the impending nook I'm about to get. ;)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]beejium, 2010-02-03 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]annathepiper, 2010-02-03 05:33 am UTC

[info]braisinhussy
2010-02-01 11:13 pm UTC (link)
Dang it, I want to say many things here as a publishing-type-person, but according to a meeting we had last week, I can't. :(

(Reply to this)


[info]randomsome1
2010-02-02 12:44 am UTC (link)
Hey, now I know what Neil Gaiman was twittering about.

(Reply to this)

Just in time!
[info]dez_chan
2010-02-02 01:12 am UTC (link)
For those curious as to the various attributes of other e-Readers, there's a chart from mocoNews.

I know it was helpful to me; and since this little debacle (and the DRM issues with the Kindle), I'm feeling pretty anti-Amazon at the moment.

(Reply to this)


[info]shadowmonkey
2010-02-02 01:16 am UTC (link)
I think it's possible that dear Brian on AW has managed to go beyond mansplaining.

"Here's my cred."
"Your cred is an attack on me!"


**Reposted for world's stupidest, and most basic, typo.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2010-02-04 03:12 am UTC

[info]khym_chanur
2010-02-02 01:24 am UTC (link)
we will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan's terms because Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles

Why hello there, Captain Obvious!

(Reply to this)


[info]keri
2010-02-02 01:28 am UTC (link)
Oh, good, a reminder about why I avoid using Amazon whenever possible. I knew I had several good reasons, but couldn't quite remember what (and then the other day I remembered the thing with GLBTQ books, which fixed that problem).

Is there a thread yet for alternate online booksellers? I love bookdepository.com lately, though it's sort of a surprise about when your books will arrive, probably because of the free worldwide shipping thing. (I haven't checked the other comments yet >.>)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wankaholic, 2010-02-02 02:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-02-02 02:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2010-02-02 03:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-02-02 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]disdainful_soul, 2010-02-02 04:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-02-02 04:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2010-02-02 06:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-02-02 06:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2010-02-02 05:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]warrioreowyn, 2010-02-02 06:03 am UTC
(no subject) - janegray, 2010-02-03 01:32 am UTC

[info]dejana
2010-02-02 01:47 am UTC (link)
So, Amazon tried to pull a Wal-Mart. "You'll sell it at the rock-bottom price we say and like it, regardless of what it cost you to produce the thing, because we're a huge distributor and the loss of our sales will break you if you don't!" For the sake of capitalism everywhere, I am beyond thrilled and relieved that they failed.

(Reply to this)


[info]staroverthebay
2010-02-02 02:51 am UTC (link)
This wank (at least, the posts over at Absolute Write, which is the only link I've managed to wade through before my brain flipped me off and took a long vacation) makes me feel like a complete and utter dunce. I can't figure out what they're all arguing about. (Well, except the mansplainer and his opposition)

I do like how the mansplainer, when pressed, immediately reaches for his "Logical Fallacies" wiki page and starts pointing out flaws in argument, tossing out every single one of the credentials that makes her a credible source -- by stating that she's attacking HIM or that she's stating irrelevant information -- so that he can attack her and gloat that since she can only spew fallacies, ergo he is right...

Isn't there a Jurisimprudence law about how, if the only way you can respond to a solid, well-formulated argument is to point out various logical fallacies on a play-by-play run, you automatically lose because you're no longer arguing your point, you're just being a sore loser.... or something to that effect?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]monty, 2010-02-02 03:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2010-02-02 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]monty, 2010-02-02 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]staroverthebay, 2010-02-02 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tsubaki, 2010-02-02 06:59 am UTC

[info]also_not_a_pipe
2010-02-02 03:02 am UTC (link)
They managed to do okay for almost a decade. Then last couple of years every damn time I decide that I want something from Amazon more than I'm outraged by their second-most-recent fuckup and might start buying from them again, they go and pull another one out of the bag. Every damn time. What, did the shaping panel on their fail girdle finally burst?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-02-02 03:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tsubaki, 2010-02-02 07:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]keri, 2010-02-02 07:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tsubaki, 2010-02-02 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sokudoningyou, 2010-02-06 01:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2010-02-02 12:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]also_not_a_pipe, 2010-02-02 09:31 pm UTC



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