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insignificant other ([info]snacky) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2010-05-03 10:09:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:author entitlement, authors, creator wank, doesn't mean what you think it means, fanfic, suck it up and deal, writers are often pompous douches, your kink is not okay

Diana Gabaldon, author of the wildly popular Outlander series, has an opinion on fan fiction: I think it’s immoral, I _know_ it’s illegal, and it makes me want to barf whenever I’ve inadvertently encountered some of it involving my characters.

Highlights include:


  • Writing fanfic is just like breaking into someone's house.
  • Fanfic is WAY WAY WAY TOO PORNY omg ick people have sexual fantasies!*
  • What to do about an auction offering fanfic to raise money for a cancer patient? She doesn't want to "seem heartless"! So she seeks advice in the comments. Which are mostly full of "Fanfic? I have never heard of such a despicable load of garbage! Also, CRUSH THAT CANCER PATIENT!"



ETA: Unpublished author Eddie Louise (who cannot write the word "shit" and seems to fail spectacularly at reading comprehension) offers fanfic writers A CHALLENGE! Accept it if you dare, sniveling pedo thieves!

ETA 2: Previously, Ms Gabaldon has said fanfic is like selling your children into white slavery. Well. Now. I don't even know what to do with that.

ETA 3: Smart Bitches, Trashy Books has some discussion on the topic.

ETA 4: And bookshop on LJ/DW has a rebuttal.

ETA 5: See what happens when I leave the sweet embrace of the internet for a few hours? Ms. Gabaldon updates her blog!

ETA 6: Evidently Ms. Gabaldon deleted all evidence of her hissyfit, but some wankas have screencaps in this thread.

ETA 7: [info]kate_nepevu has screencaps and the text of Gabaldon's posts here. And via [info]alchemynerd, more screencaps available here:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/tiz4vp
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ibidpj
http://www.sendspace.com/file/r6zik6
http://www.sendspace.com/file/hlknqo
http://www.sendspace.com/file/d9alsh

Thanks for all the links! :)




MOD REMINDER: Remember, my little wankas, we DO NOT troll the wank. Nor do we write fanfic after the author has specifically requested people not and post it in the comments here, no matter how tempting it may be. Carry on. oh god my inbox ow ow



*Just as a point of interest, I was a bookseller for 12 years, and had several customers tell me about the sex scenes in her books. Some were pro ("My friend told me to read these books for the sex scenes, and she was totally right, they are so hot, this is best thing to happen to my sex life in years!") and some were con ("What is up with all the sex all the time? Where's the story?"), but one thing you can't say about her books is that they're sexual-fantasy free. :D



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(Post a new comment)


[info]faeryfroggy
2010-05-08 03:13 am UTC (link)
I love all the people kissing her ass in the third post. Like they're hoping she'll give them the time of day.

Note to self: avoid this series.

(Reply to this)

GRRM responds:
[info]nos
2010-05-08 04:32 am UTC (link)
*sniffles* Not my GRRM!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: GRRM responds:
[info]kelschuu
2010-05-08 04:36 am UTC (link)
I just saw that and wondered if anyone updated this with a link.

I mean, I've always known he was anti-fanfic, but. IDK. I guess like some authors try to ignore that their fans write fanfic, I just quietly didn't write anything more than one or two f-locked drabbles and tried to pretend GRRM didn't disallow fanfiction.

It makes me really sad to read because I agree with him on so much, except this. And all the examples he uses are so extremist. But GRRM, what about all the kids who put everything under locks with a million disclaimers and really only share it with other fans for fun times and no money is involved OR EVEN STILL other people go out and buy your books because a fic author they like seems to enjoy your series?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: GRRM responds: - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 04:44 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]becktionary, 2010-05-08 04:45 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 04:50 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]becktionary, 2010-05-08 05:10 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 05:16 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2010-05-15 12:16 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]blue_penguin, 2010-05-08 07:44 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 07:50 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]blue_penguin, 2010-05-08 08:02 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]waltraute, 2010-05-08 01:45 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]waterfall8484, 2010-05-08 02:15 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]waltraute, 2010-05-08 02:30 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 04:07 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]waltraute, 2010-05-08 04:24 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-05-08 05:58 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 06:06 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds:
[info]rodo
2010-05-08 04:49 am UTC (link)
Real fans write original works inspired by whatever they're a fan of, good to know.

Takes his books off her mental To Read list.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: GRRM responds: - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 04:53 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]nos, 2010-05-08 04:57 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]rodo, 2010-05-08 05:05 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]becktionary, 2010-05-08 05:06 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]rodo, 2010-05-08 05:11 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]becktionary, 2010-05-08 05:16 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]rodo, 2010-05-08 06:08 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]sakanagi, 2010-05-08 05:18 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]rodo, 2010-05-08 05:24 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-08 02:49 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds:
[info]eisoj5
2010-05-08 05:07 am UTC (link)
Was just coming over here to see if that had been posted. :(

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: GRRM responds:
[info]frequentmouse
2010-05-08 05:32 am UTC (link)
Nobody in the comments thread has pointed it out, but he is flat wrong about copyright needing to be defended: that's trademark, not copyright.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: GRRM responds:
[info]acrimonious
2010-05-08 05:58 am UTC (link)
AAGH I REPLIED BEFORE I SAW THIS.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: GRRM responds:
[info]drakyndra
2010-05-08 08:20 am UTC (link)
FFFFFF, and I now need to resist the urge to comment there.

Also, isn't there something of a contradiction between, "Writing derivative works is fine if the original author gives permission" and "Because he allowed derivative works to be written, Lovecraft DIED POOR AND IN POVERTY."

Not to mention the vaguely condescending attitude to writer/creators who are fine with fanfic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: GRRM responds: - [info]mechanicaljewel, 2010-05-09 10:30 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds:
[info]cinnamonical
2010-05-08 09:40 am UTC (link)
In response: George R. R. Martin is wrong about Lovecraft

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: GRRM responds: - [info]tarash, 2010-05-08 12:58 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 04:05 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]nos, 2010-05-08 05:32 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]uldihaa, 2010-05-08 07:13 pm UTC
Re: GRRM responds:
[info]tarash
2010-05-08 12:58 pm UTC (link)
I think he also misses the point in why people are annoyed with Gabaldon, it's not so much that she is anti-fanfic, it's that she's equating it to breaking and entering, which is just daft.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: GRRM responds:
[info]eisoj5
2010-05-09 06:18 am UTC (link)
I think the thing about the latest post that bugs me so much is the part where he says that fan "fictioneers" (uh...something wrong with the word writers there?) love the characters, but the original writers love them more.

Um...has he ever heard of the Snapewives? *blinks*

Alternatively, is there a, like, opposite version of the Oppression Olympics where it's competing to see who loves X more?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: GRRM responds: - [info]were_lemur, 2010-05-12 05:02 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds:
[info]darkrose
2010-05-11 02:09 am UTC (link)
I just kind of want to pat him on the head. "Oh, you're upset about fanfic now? Just wait until the HBO series starts, featuring Sean Bean, Lena Heady, and Jason Momoa in his first onscreen nude scene."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: GRRM responds: - [info]were_lemur, 2010-05-12 04:20 am UTC
Re: GRRM responds: - [info]mikou, 2010-05-21 08:55 am UTC

[info]theelusiven
2010-05-08 04:40 am UTC (link)
Bookshop has just pointed out that Gabaldon gave her blessing to crossover fanfic in the past.

(Reply to this)


[info]waterfall8484
2010-05-08 02:39 pm UTC (link)
From the compuserve forum (page 26):

Dear Teesa--

Well, you're right; I shouldn't have encompassed all fan-fiction, because many writers _are_ fine with it. And to tell you the truth, I've normally just ignored it--knowing there's really nothing one can do about it, in any case. It was the person _advertising_ doing fan-fiction of my characters, on public boards, and doing it for a charitable cause that would make it hard for me to object that made me respond so strongly--I had visions of such charitable fan-fictions springing up like mushrooms all over the place, and thought I should maybe say something to a) indicate that I really _am_ uncomfortable with fan-fiction (for reasons noted), and b) I think there is a problem with the fan-fic as charity notion.

I do apologize to you, though.
--Diana


Now why didn't she just put that on her blog? It might at least have helped a little...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-08 02:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2010-05-08 03:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2010-05-08 03:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mechanicaljewel, 2010-05-09 10:44 pm UTC

[info]were_lemur
2010-05-08 09:58 pm UTC (link)
Post #4 is up. http://voyagesoftheartemis.blogspot.com/2010/05/ps.html

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-08 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]becktionary, 2010-05-08 10:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-09 07:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mechanicaljewel, 2010-05-09 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sakanagi, 2010-05-10 12:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sakanagi, 2010-05-10 01:40 am UTC
GRRM speaks again
[info]nos
2010-05-09 12:06 am UTC (link)
http://grrm.livejournal.com/152072.html

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: GRRM speaks again - [info]arachnejericho, 2010-05-09 12:24 am UTC
Re: GRRM speaks again - [info]tourniquette, 2010-05-10 05:56 pm UTC
Re: GRRM speaks again - [info]arachnejericho, 2010-05-10 07:29 pm UTC
Re: GRRM speaks again - [info]tarash, 2010-05-09 01:57 am UTC
Re: GRRM speaks again - [info]waltraute, 2010-05-09 02:59 am UTC
Re: GRRM speaks again - [info]oconel, 2010-05-09 11:23 am UTC

[info]faeryfroggy
2010-05-09 05:38 am UTC (link)
I don't know if anyone else said it but "Copyright. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

(Reply to this)


[info]sinosei
2010-05-10 01:16 am UTC (link)
Is it just me or did Diana Gabaldon delete a few posts? I looked over her blog page and the most recent entry is from April 27th.

Unfortunately, I didn't save any of the comments. :| Anyone have 'em? (If nothing else, I screengrabbed her blog this morning, showing at least all three of her posts on fic.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2010-05-10 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sinosei, 2010-05-10 01:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nurlomum, 2010-05-10 01:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sinosei, 2010-05-10 01:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hollywdliz, 2010-05-10 07:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hollywdliz, 2010-05-10 02:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sinosei, 2010-05-10 02:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hollywdliz, 2010-05-10 04:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]theelusiven, 2010-05-11 07:21 pm UTC

[info]hollywdliz
2010-05-10 02:42 am UTC (link)
BAHLEETED! The entire thing is gone. Nice!

(Reply to this)


[info]velvetwhip
2010-05-10 11:31 pm UTC (link)
Here's what she now has posted on her official site:

From Diana
7 May 2010
Fan-Fiction Policy

You know, I'm very flattered that some of you enjoy the books so much that you feel inspired to engage with the writing in a more personal way than most readers do. Both for legal and personal reasons, though, I'm not comfortable with fan-fiction based on any of my work, and request that you do not write it, do not send it to me, and do not publish it, whether in print or on the web. Thank you very much for your consideration.

(Reply to this)


[info]syncopation
2010-05-11 12:08 am UTC (link)
Wanker could've avoided the shenanigans if she had done her research to find out how professional authors dealt with their "don't defile my characters!" feelings.

For every new audience that she gained, she also loses one. Consider me and my money as losses, Gabaldon.

(Reply to this)


[info]arachnejericho
2010-05-11 06:32 am UTC (link)
While Diana Gabaldon has deleted everything, the Internet Still Remembers (in the form of Google Reader).

Kate Nepveu (who also wrote an awesome open letter about all this when it first spawned) has the text of all three posts along with screencaps here:

http://kate-nepveu.livejournal.com/483239.html

(Reply to this)


[info]nos
2010-05-11 08:46 am UTC (link)
Annnd Io9 gets in on the action:

http://io9.com/5535558/is-fan-fiction-really-so-wrong

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arachnejericho, 2010-05-11 09:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]murriness, 2010-05-11 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-12 08:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]arachnejericho, 2010-05-12 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-13 03:56 am UTC

[info]lydiabell
2010-05-11 06:14 pm UTC (link)
I cannot stop laughing:

"SO WAIT.

Not ONLY was Diana Gabaldon inspired to write Jamie Fraser by Frazer Hines' character Jamie MacCrimmon on Doctor Who, but once she had finished writing Jamie Fraser--who gets, as you may know, tortured and sodomized in the grand finale of the story--she packed up a couple of copies and mailed them to Frazer Hines. To... thank him. "

(Link to Dira's post, and link to the DG blog post she's referring to.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-11 06:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]were_lemur, 2010-05-12 03:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]were_lemur, 2010-05-12 04:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wombat1138, 2010-05-12 09:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]were_lemur, 2010-05-12 10:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-13 12:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wombat1138, 2010-05-13 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2010-05-13 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]arachnejericho, 2010-05-13 04:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-13 04:31 am UTC
O.O - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-13 07:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wombat1138, 2010-05-13 08:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2010-05-15 12:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]were_lemur, 2010-05-15 03:13 am UTC

[info]wombat1138
2010-05-16 05:24 am UTC (link)
...oh, and then there was Gabaldon's failure to comprehend Cassie Edwards' serial plagiarism of lengthy passages from multiple sources. (The SBTB PDF stopped updating by the time I finished thwacking at the later links.)

The elseweb link from this repost at Dear Author (Jane, #77) doesn't work anymore, but here's what Gabaldon posted in her Compuserve forum in 2008:
[...]you _can_ legally use absolutely anything that’s in the public domain (i.e., out of copyright). And in fact, at least two of the “sources” they were mentioning almost certainly are. Given the peculiarities of style in some of the bits quoted, I still don’t know why one _would_–but it’s totally legit to do so.

Bottom line being that no, in fact, you _can’t_ plagiarize a source that’s out of copyright. You can do anything you want to with it.

Note that DG doesn't seem upset about Edwards plagiarizing the "sources" that *weren't* out of copyright, either. So lifting paragraphs of word-for-word text is completely okay with her-- but fanfic about her characters isn't.

(Reply to this)



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