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Laurie ([info]knitmeapony) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2010-05-14 09:22:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:author entitlement, authors, can't escape the screencaps

Second verse, same as the first: Katherine Kerr hates your fanfic.
Katherine Kerr, editor of Weird Tales of Shakespeare and author of Celtic myth and Dungeons and Dragons 'inspired' novels decides to create another derivative work: her thoughts on yaoi.

A number of people on LJ have been expressing their views on fanfic, so I thought I'd add mine. I despise it.

http://aberwyn.livejournal.com/181755.html Deleted!

Caps of first post:
via alchemynerd on LJ: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7ovake
via alchemynerd on LJ: http://www.sendspace.com/file/nsjfzd
Perhaps you'd prefer PDF: http://knitmeapony.com/fw/kerr_kerfuffle_page1.pdf
Or HTML, via maneman on LJ: knitmeapony.com/fw/katherine_kerr_career_suicide.html


And this includes the professional transformative works:

If someone can think of no better idea than to take a classic kid's book series and try to wring a few more bucks out of it, like the whole 'Wicked' series, then they should get a real job.


Comment #2 is fellow author Jim Hines getting a bit snarky with the idea. She backpedals mightily in the face of a professional author.

There are disappointed fans! She replies to her own post rather than editing it!

Not to mention mocking, accusations of trolling, and weird discussions of how fanfic is like embroidery or other crafting.

First post deleted, with explanation: Because people got "offensive": http://aberwyn.livejournal.com/182244.html Also deleted, cap of this, courtesy of [info]zulu http://tinypic.com/r/akzz1d/5

Then there was a third post, which I missed entirely, dubiously titled "what's wrong with talking about quality?" Cap, courtesy of [info]woodenleg http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5620/swrongwithtalkingaboutq.png


And when the second and third posts were deleted, a martyrish post went up here: http://aberwyn.livejournal.com/182619.html

Lordy, yet another post, preserved below. Edit: Post deleted, but thankfully preserved.

And one (final?) post, this time with comments turned off:

Summing up
1. 3 or 4 of the posts in the mobbing stage were interesting and intelligent; they made a nicely reasoned defence of fanfic. Good for you! You might have changed my mind if it weren't for the others.

2. The rest of the 200 or so posts actually proved my points about poor writing skills, lack of cultural knowledge, and lack of imagination, since they repeated each other's thoughts in varying degrees of inarticulate language. One person, in a post I screened by disallowed, even used a toilet reference that was supposed to embarrass me. He also seemed to think I'm man, oddly enough.

3. A sloppy syllogism for those who didn't get the B'rer Rabbit point:
A. I dislike fanfic and don't want anyone writing it about my work.
B. If you don't read my work, you can't write about it.
C. Therefore threatening to ignore my work does not injure me in any way. Rather, I'm relieved that you won't.

4. The mobbing was not merely rude to me. We can agree on the point that the flip tone of my original post deserved the response it got. However, the mobbing was rude to all the regular readers of this space. It bored them, it cut off their right of discussion, and I suspect it convinced some of them that my original post's opinion of fanfic writers was in the main correct.


Personally, I think this fanfic of the Diana Gabaldon kerfuffle has a paucity of imagination. And relatively dull.



Page 2 of 4
<<[1] [2] [3] [4] >>

(Post a new comment)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2010-05-14 07:09 pm UTC (link)
Since it's been deleted, I'll repost this lovely set of comments that I quoted earlier:

aberwyn: There have been some really interesting and intelligent comments posted here in defence of fanfic. Thank you all for those. Then there are the others. :-)

pennieblack: Given how varied smiley use can be: when you add ":-)" to your comments, what is it meant to convey? I don't want to make an assumption.

lanning: Judging by her use of it so far, I believe it is meant to convey that she wishes to insult someone while maintaining a veneer of civility, for the purposes of plausible deniability.

seperis: The magic of a smiley never ceases to amaze me.

(Reply to this)


[info]sabaceanbabe
2010-05-14 07:12 pm UTC (link)
Damn. I had just finished reading the comments on the first page (of three) and clicked on page 2 and poof! Gone. There was so much excellence there, too. *sniffle*

*runs off to friend jimhines*

(Reply to this)


[info]ladyvyola
2010-05-14 07:24 pm UTC (link)
ETA: Deleted, because people got "offensive"

Aw, and this was such a cozy little wank, too, what with the homey embroidered samplers on the wall and the plates of Hamburger Helper and processed cheesefood being passed around as we did dramatic readings of Vergil and Shakespeare.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-05-15 12:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-15 08:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-15 10:37 am UTC

[info]issendai
2010-05-14 07:24 pm UTC (link)
Not surprising that she deleted, since several dozen intelligent, talented, well-spoken people with thoroughly reasoned arguments spanked her into the stone age in her own journal.

That's gotta sting.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kantayra, 2010-05-15 03:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]medie, 2010-05-18 01:15 am UTC

[info]woodenleg
2010-05-14 07:26 pm UTC (link)
She's bahleeted the second entry now. :( Not enough people kowtowing and soothing her wounded ego, I guess/

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]woodenleg, 2010-05-14 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]naive_wanderer, 2010-05-14 07:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]woodenleg, 2010-05-14 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]woodenleg, 2010-05-14 07:36 pm UTC
... - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 07:41 pm UTC
... - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-05-14 07:42 pm UTC
... - [info]tofuknight, 2010-05-14 07:46 pm UTC
... - [info]dez_chan, 2010-05-14 07:48 pm UTC
... - [info]knitmeapony, 2010-05-14 07:49 pm UTC
... - [info]tehrin, 2010-05-15 02:07 am UTC
... - [info]knitmeapony, 2010-05-14 07:44 pm UTC
... - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-14 09:04 pm UTC
... - [info]gmth, 2010-05-14 07:48 pm UTC
... - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-05-14 07:51 pm UTC
... - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 07:53 pm UTC
... - [info]havocthecat, 2010-05-14 08:14 pm UTC
... - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-05-14 08:15 pm UTC
... - tetradecimal, 2010-05-14 08:18 pm UTC
... - [info]goblin, 2010-05-14 08:26 pm UTC
... - [info]barankhy, 2010-05-14 09:54 pm UTC
... - [info]puipui, 2010-05-15 11:20 pm UTC
... - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-14 08:43 pm UTC
... - [info]polygamouse, 2010-05-14 09:00 pm UTC
... - [info]eevee, 2010-05-14 10:57 pm UTC
... - [info]kantayra, 2010-05-15 03:23 am UTC
... - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-15 10:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]naive_wanderer, 2010-05-14 07:37 pm UTC
... - [info]esclaramonde, 2010-05-14 08:49 pm UTC
... - [info]lyssie, 2010-05-15 05:46 am UTC
... - [info]medie, 2010-05-18 01:21 am UTC
... - [info]miera_c, 2010-05-14 09:05 pm UTC
... - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-05-15 12:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-05-14 07:42 pm UTC
... - [info]bluenakedlady, 2010-05-14 08:12 pm UTC
... - [info]goblin, 2010-05-14 08:26 pm UTC
... - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-14 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2010-05-14 09:31 pm UTC
... - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-17 02:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]surrexi, 2010-05-15 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2010-05-27 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-05-14 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]perenniallurker, 2010-05-14 10:56 pm UTC
... - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-05-15 03:54 am UTC
... - [info]perenniallurker, 2010-05-18 01:30 am UTC

[info]zulu
2010-05-14 07:29 pm UTC (link)
Here's the second post that she bahleeted:

http://tinypic.com/r/akzz1d/5

Sad that I couldn't get the earlier post on time!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]zulu, 2010-05-14 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zulu, 2010-05-14 08:11 pm UTC

[info]woodenleg
2010-05-14 07:34 pm UTC (link)
From the third post, now bahleeted as well: http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5620/swrongwithtalkingaboutq.png

(Reply to this)


[info]ladyvyola
2010-05-14 07:40 pm UTC (link)
Cap'n, my engines just can't keep up with the speed of her deletions!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]knitmeapony, 2010-05-14 07:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]spawn_of_kong, 2010-05-14 10:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]omnicrom, 2010-05-15 01:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kantayra, 2010-05-15 03:27 am UTC

[info]capricorn_baos
2010-05-14 07:41 pm UTC (link)
Her new post, in case she deletes (yet again):

I assume that many people here know the politically incorrect tale of Brer Rabbit and the Brian Patch. Once Brer Fox managed to catch Brer Rabbit, who escaped by begging the fox NOT to throw him in the briar patch. The fox of course did so, thinking it was the Worst Thing he could do. And Brer Rabbit, who knew the underneath of the patch very well, got clean away.

There is a lesson here for some recent commentors.

:-)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 07:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyvyola, 2010-05-14 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2010-05-14 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]polygamouse, 2010-05-14 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-14 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yattara, 2010-05-14 09:02 pm UTC
Can you see Peter's house from there? - [info]darkrose, 2010-05-14 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-14 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-14 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2010-05-15 12:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2010-05-15 05:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]octopedingenue, 2010-05-16 09:51 am UTC

[info]sparklepuss
2010-05-14 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Is she having some kind of manic episode or something? This is really bizarre behavior.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]knitmeapony, 2010-05-14 07:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sparklepuss, 2010-05-14 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jadeleopard, 2010-05-14 08:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]feelingcold, 2010-05-15 12:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alcesx2, 2010-05-15 06:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beejium, 2010-05-15 07:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2010-05-15 08:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]libelle, 2010-05-16 01:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-15 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2010-05-16 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cythraul, 2010-05-17 03:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxic_corn, 2010-05-19 05:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kirarose, 2010-05-14 07:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-05-14 07:55 pm UTC

[info]come_love_sleep
2010-05-14 07:50 pm UTC (link)
Courtesy of Maneman over on LJ, a cap of the original post:
http://i39.tinypic.com/35bi88n.png
He says that he also has a copy with comments, or rather the HTML; he's finding a place to host it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]knitmeapony, 2010-05-14 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2010-05-14 07:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 07:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sabinelagrande, 2010-05-14 09:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2010-05-14 09:27 pm UTC

[info]chienne
2010-05-14 07:57 pm UTC (link)
Fanfiction is WRONG and BAD. There should be a new, stronger word for fanfiction like badwrong or badong. YES, fanfiction is badong. From this moment, I will stand for the opposite of fanfiction, gnodab.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]melkahb, 2010-05-14 08:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-05-14 08:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]empy, 2010-05-14 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-15 10:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sokudoningyou, 2010-05-15 04:42 am UTC

[info]gusty
2010-05-14 07:58 pm UTC (link)
I'm guessing this was all spawned from this Writer's Block question from a couple days ago?

Tons of fun answers in there, too.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2010-05-14 10:20 pm UTC

[info]kumquat_of_doom
2010-05-14 08:00 pm UTC (link)
Also, I see someone namechecked us in one of the deleted posts. Mods, can we have Anon commenting back on, pretty please? We might get us a 'professional' visitor...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2010-05-14 08:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2010-05-14 08:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trialia, 2010-05-15 03:08 am UTC
... - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-15 03:09 am UTC
... - [info]trialia, 2010-05-15 03:15 am UTC
... - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-15 03:16 am UTC
... - [info]trialia, 2010-05-15 03:16 am UTC
... - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-15 03:18 am UTC
... - [info]trialia, 2010-05-15 03:21 am UTC
... - [info]aegflota, 2010-05-15 03:24 am UTC
... - [info]trialia, 2010-05-15 03:25 am UTC
... - [info]aegflota, 2010-05-15 03:38 am UTC
... - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-15 10:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]celtic_mysts, 2010-05-18 03:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-14 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]negativecosine, 2010-05-14 08:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-05-14 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-14 08:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]miera_c, 2010-05-14 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2010-05-14 08:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2010-05-14 08:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:56 pm UTC
... - [info]snacky, 2010-05-14 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2010-05-14 09:04 pm UTC
... - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2010-05-14 11:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2010-05-14 09:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tehrin, 2010-05-15 02:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-17 02:53 am UTC

[info]limyaael
2010-05-14 08:04 pm UTC (link)
Considering this line from her website, maybe she really just is that arrogant:

If you want to, you can use your own blog to post about your experience reading these books, as well as to post your congratulations to the author and her grand vision.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2010-05-14 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-05-14 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2010-05-14 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2010-05-14 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2010-05-15 01:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2010-05-15 01:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hallidae, 2010-05-15 08:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]missdeep, 2010-05-16 03:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2010-05-17 03:22 pm UTC

[info]mochibuni
2010-05-14 08:06 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I'll just be over here continuing to work on my fics.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mochibuni, 2010-05-14 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-05-14 08:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mochibuni, 2010-05-14 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-05-14 09:17 pm UTC
... - [info]mochibuni, 2010-05-14 09:28 pm UTC
... - [info]barankhy, 2010-05-14 10:00 pm UTC
... - [info]mochibuni, 2010-05-15 12:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alexa, 2010-05-15 07:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]becktionary, 2010-05-15 07:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alexa, 2010-05-15 08:05 am UTC
... - [info]becktionary, 2010-05-15 08:08 am UTC
... - [info]alexa, 2010-05-15 08:40 am UTC
... - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-17 02:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mochibuni, 2010-05-14 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-14 08:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]trialia, 2010-05-15 03:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-15 03:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]trialia, 2010-05-15 03:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yattara, 2010-05-16 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2010-05-14 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]talec, 2010-05-14 10:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beejium, 2010-05-15 07:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-17 02:56 am UTC

[info]kita0610
2010-05-14 08:36 pm UTC (link)
It spawned a "Why I write fanfic" meme, in which I declare Ann Larimer the winner with her concise and to the point post of "I write fanfic because fuck you."

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-05-14 09:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2010-05-15 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-05-14 09:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kita0610, 2010-05-14 09:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-05-14 09:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kita0610, 2010-05-14 09:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2010-05-14 10:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2010-05-14 11:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sadisticferret, 2010-05-14 11:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]knitmeapony, 2010-05-14 11:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yoritomo_reiko, 2010-05-14 11:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wolfshark, 2010-05-15 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2010-05-15 01:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]trollprincess, 2010-05-15 03:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]varpstone, 2010-05-15 07:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]were_lemur, 2010-05-22 09:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zellieh, 2010-09-19 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nightwalker, 2010-05-15 01:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sablemouse, 2010-05-17 04:13 am UTC
As Ishtar would say - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-17 02:58 am UTC

[info]shark
2010-05-14 08:53 pm UTC (link)
http://aberwyn.livejournal.com/182917.html

Next Entry
The Briar Patch
I assume that many people here know the politically incorrect tale of Brer Rabbit and the Brian Patch. Once Brer Fox managed to catch Brer Rabbit, who escaped by begging the fox NOT to throw him in the briar patch. The fox of course did so, thinking it was the Worst Thing he could do. And Brer Rabbit, who knew the underneath of the patch very well, got clean away.

There is a lesson here for some recent commentors.

:-)




What the fucking fuck?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]goblin, 2010-05-14 08:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chienne, 2010-05-14 09:17 pm UTC

[info]sabinelagrande
2010-05-14 09:10 pm UTC (link)
She appears to be screening comments now on that last (the last two?) posts.

She has learned something, I suppose.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]woodenleg, 2010-05-14 09:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sabinelagrande, 2010-05-14 09:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]woodenleg, 2010-05-14 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sabinelagrande, 2010-05-14 09:20 pm UTC
... - [info]woodenleg, 2010-05-14 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blue_penguin, 2010-05-14 11:57 pm UTC
... - [info]woodenleg, 2010-05-15 02:02 am UTC
... - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-05-16 04:12 am UTC

[info]miera_c
2010-05-14 09:17 pm UTC (link)
From one of her deleted posts:

"...something I've noticed about the SF and F community over the years: no one seems to want to make critical judgments or to discuss the way genre writing as a whole might improve. This shows up in particular when someone ventures to discuss issues of -craft-, the details of writing prose and telling stories.

She doesn't get around the Internet much does she? Though I'd venture to guess that any post that starts out with someone prattling about "craft" probably pings peoples' bullshit meters pretty fast. Well, it would ping mine anyway.

Also, WUWT dashes?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 09:37 pm UTC

[info]sinosei
2010-05-14 09:19 pm UTC (link)
New post (I think?):

http://aberwyn.livejournal.com/182619.html: I think the goal of this small number of fanfic people is to drive me off LJ, ultimately. Their lack of ability to sustain an argument would prove my original point if I thought I everyone who writes fanfic is like them. As soon as someone resorts to an ad hominem attack, they are admitting that they have no real argument to give.

Is it bad that my main reaction is "lol troll"?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]luckdragonfujur, 2010-05-14 11:06 pm UTC

[info]lydiabell
2010-05-14 09:20 pm UTC (link)
Aaaand, there goes the "Brian Patch" post.

Has anyone checked her walls for mysterious cracks? I'm starting to worry.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sparklepuss, 2010-05-14 09:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-14 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-05-14 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goblin, 2010-05-14 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-14 10:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2010-05-17 03:14 pm UTC

[info]mariem_1
2010-05-14 09:23 pm UTC (link)
From the LJ of hippoiathanatoi, two wankers in Kerr's first post:

What I keep seeing thrown out in response is Barthes' "Death of the Author" means that readers no longer have to care about being respectful to the wishes of authors in respect to their work. I don't think Barthes meant what they think they meant. He's not talking about the production of literature, merely its interpretation. The natural end point of their appropriation of "Death of the Author" is the end of copyright and a general creative free-for-all.

In all honesty, the proliferation of fan fiction strikes me as another symptom of Gen X and Y self-entitlement syndrome. My generation and the one after are, without a doubt, the most privileged generations to have ever walked the Earth. Unfortunately, I think this makes it easy to assume that privileges extend in whatever direction one wants, to encompass anything one pleases if it's convenient for you. The only reason there aren't more fan fiction writers trying to commercialize their product is that the law will come down on them. If they could do it without any danger of getting caught, a small portion, at least, would do so. (And, I mean, it does happen. The fandom wikis are full of stories of crazy fan fic writers who tried to solicit monetary support for their "work".)

I think one aspect to all this that I think provides a lot of the ire from fan fiction writers is that fan fiction is almost exclusively produced and consumed by women. The Board of Directors of the of the Organization of Transformative Works, for example, is exclusively female. Most every fan fic community I stumble across is almost entirely female in population.

Which makes me think that gender politics are underlying a lot of this: who gets to assert the "right way" to interact with a work and so on. But I find the lack of universality among women, vis-a-vis writing and consumption of fan fiction, suggests that what we really have here is a pretty small, but very loud, interest group which does not really represent where most people stand on the subject.
***
Hopefully without stepping into a minefield...

One of the defenses of fan fiction writing that I generally see is that it's simply another method to interrogate a text, no different than applying LitCrit theory in an analysis, writing a review, or talking about it on a forum. But it seems to be, by dint of the composition of the fan fiction writing community, to be a predominantly female approach to interrogation through ... I don't know, appropropiation and reinterpretation?

So. A community of (mostly) women forms around a (mostly) feminine way of interacting with literature. And then the forces of the status quo -- of copyright regimes (created and enforced mostly by men), of the literary establishment (also top-heavy with men), of fandom (traditionally dominated by men, at least in most genres, until the advent of the Internet allowed new communities to form) -- come in and say, "No, you shouldn't do this, because X, Y, and Z."

It's easy to read this as being a matter of male vs. female, because of this dichotomy.

And so, I wildly speculate, that's part of what's happening: fanfic communities are strongly driven by gender politics, mostly involving women not wanting to stop interrogating texts in a way that they mostly feel is mostly uniquely feminine. (All these "mostlys" are to hedge for the fact that not all fanfic writers or readers are female, nor do they all necessarily see things in gendered terms, and so on and so forth.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sparklepuss, 2010-05-14 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-05-14 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-14 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rodo, 2010-05-14 10:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]naive_wanderer, 2010-05-14 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]naive_wanderer, 2010-05-14 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2010-05-15 12:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2010-05-15 03:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-15 03:07 am UTC
translation - tetradecimal, 2010-05-14 09:37 pm UTC
Re: translation - [info]goblin, 2010-05-14 09:44 pm UTC
Re: translation - [info]poisonyoulove, 2010-05-14 11:58 pm UTC
Re: translation - [info]napalmnacey, 2010-05-17 03:18 pm UTC
Re: translation - ariadne484, 2010-05-15 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-05-14 09:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]miera_c, 2010-05-14 10:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mooncalf, 2010-05-15 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-05-15 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-05-15 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2010-05-15 05:42 am UTC
... - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-05-16 04:17 am UTC
... - [info]eleutheria, 2010-05-16 11:58 am UTC
... - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-05-17 04:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-14 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melkahb, 2010-05-14 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melkahb, 2010-05-14 10:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-14 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melkahb, 2010-05-14 10:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-14 10:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-05-14 10:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melkahb, 2010-05-14 10:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2010-05-15 12:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 10:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2010-05-14 10:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]issendai, 2010-05-14 10:31 pm UTC
... - [info]bigbigtruck, 2010-05-14 11:14 pm UTC
... - [info]darkrose, 2010-05-15 12:20 am UTC
... - [info]eleutheria, 2010-05-15 05:44 am UTC
... - [info]lyssa, 2010-05-16 01:45 am UTC
... - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-17 03:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]naive_wanderer, 2010-05-14 10:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-17 03:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2010-05-14 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sylvacoer, 2010-05-14 10:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chienne, 2010-05-14 11:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - tetradecimal, 2010-05-14 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kirsten, 2010-05-14 11:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2010-05-15 12:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhosyn_du, 2010-05-14 11:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melkahb, 2010-05-15 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nagaina, 2010-05-15 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gmth, 2010-05-15 12:40 am UTC
I've made up my mind already; don't confuse me with facts - [info]chienne, 2010-05-15 12:54 am UTC
Re: I've made up my mind already; don't confuse me with facts - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-15 05:37 am UTC
Re: I've made up my mind already; don't confuse me with facts - [info]becktionary, 2010-05-15 05:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]innocentsmith, 2010-05-15 02:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]emily_goddess, 2010-05-17 04:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kantayra, 2010-05-15 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2010-05-15 05:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2010-05-16 01:08 am UTC

[info]lady_ganesh
2010-05-14 10:16 pm UTC (link)
There's a new post.

I hope she's just trying to get 'comments off' right. Otherwise I am seriously, snark-free, concerned about her mental health.

(Reply to this)


[info]issendai
2010-05-14 10:17 pm UTC (link)
New post, commenting disabled, current mood set to amused:

We'll see . . .


Aaand that's it.

You've got to hand it to her, she took the focus off her opinion of fanficcers. Being crazier than the original argument is a great derailing tactic.

(Reply to this)



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