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Laurie ([info]knitmeapony) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2010-05-14 09:22:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:author entitlement, authors, can't escape the screencaps

Second verse, same as the first: Katherine Kerr hates your fanfic.
Katherine Kerr, editor of Weird Tales of Shakespeare and author of Celtic myth and Dungeons and Dragons 'inspired' novels decides to create another derivative work: her thoughts on yaoi.

A number of people on LJ have been expressing their views on fanfic, so I thought I'd add mine. I despise it.

http://aberwyn.livejournal.com/181755.html Deleted!

Caps of first post:
via alchemynerd on LJ: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7ovake
via alchemynerd on LJ: http://www.sendspace.com/file/nsjfzd
Perhaps you'd prefer PDF: http://knitmeapony.com/fw/kerr_kerfuffle_page1.pdf
Or HTML, via maneman on LJ: knitmeapony.com/fw/katherine_kerr_career_suicide.html


And this includes the professional transformative works:

If someone can think of no better idea than to take a classic kid's book series and try to wring a few more bucks out of it, like the whole 'Wicked' series, then they should get a real job.


Comment #2 is fellow author Jim Hines getting a bit snarky with the idea. She backpedals mightily in the face of a professional author.

There are disappointed fans! She replies to her own post rather than editing it!

Not to mention mocking, accusations of trolling, and weird discussions of how fanfic is like embroidery or other crafting.

First post deleted, with explanation: Because people got "offensive": http://aberwyn.livejournal.com/182244.html Also deleted, cap of this, courtesy of [info]zulu http://tinypic.com/r/akzz1d/5

Then there was a third post, which I missed entirely, dubiously titled "what's wrong with talking about quality?" Cap, courtesy of [info]woodenleg http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5620/swrongwithtalkingaboutq.png


And when the second and third posts were deleted, a martyrish post went up here: http://aberwyn.livejournal.com/182619.html

Lordy, yet another post, preserved below. Edit: Post deleted, but thankfully preserved.

And one (final?) post, this time with comments turned off:

Summing up
1. 3 or 4 of the posts in the mobbing stage were interesting and intelligent; they made a nicely reasoned defence of fanfic. Good for you! You might have changed my mind if it weren't for the others.

2. The rest of the 200 or so posts actually proved my points about poor writing skills, lack of cultural knowledge, and lack of imagination, since they repeated each other's thoughts in varying degrees of inarticulate language. One person, in a post I screened by disallowed, even used a toilet reference that was supposed to embarrass me. He also seemed to think I'm man, oddly enough.

3. A sloppy syllogism for those who didn't get the B'rer Rabbit point:
A. I dislike fanfic and don't want anyone writing it about my work.
B. If you don't read my work, you can't write about it.
C. Therefore threatening to ignore my work does not injure me in any way. Rather, I'm relieved that you won't.

4. The mobbing was not merely rude to me. We can agree on the point that the flip tone of my original post deserved the response it got. However, the mobbing was rude to all the regular readers of this space. It bored them, it cut off their right of discussion, and I suspect it convinced some of them that my original post's opinion of fanfic writers was in the main correct.


Personally, I think this fanfic of the Diana Gabaldon kerfuffle has a paucity of imagination. And relatively dull.



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[info]mochibuni
2010-05-14 10:23 pm UTC (link)
Oh God, her website. It's like I clicked on Angelfire 1998.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rodo, 2010-05-14 11:11 pm UTC

[info]misachan
2010-05-14 10:33 pm UTC (link)
I think I'd pay good money to see Naomi Novik challenge Katherine Kerr to a debate at some con panel.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2010-05-14 11:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pfeffermuse, 2010-05-18 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-18 05:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goblin, 2010-05-15 12:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-15 03:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goblin, 2010-05-15 04:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-15 04:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goblin, 2010-05-15 05:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]quackaquacka, 2010-05-15 12:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goblin, 2010-05-15 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-15 08:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vorpal_blade, 2010-05-15 06:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vorpal_blade, 2010-05-15 06:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]weyrlady, 2010-05-15 09:09 am UTC

[info]alexa
2010-05-15 12:20 am UTC (link)
So, is she under the impression that ideas in all "original" fiction are completely new, original, and never influenced or inspired by anything? Ever?

Or, wait, she just thinks that as long as you slap the label of "orignal fiction" onto something, that automatically makes it totally new OR that it gains the distinction of being an "homage?"

I seriously have no idea where she thinks she's drawing a line. Or why it even makes sense.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2010-05-15 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alexa, 2010-05-15 02:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eevee, 2010-05-15 09:39 am UTC

[info]ninwhore
2010-05-15 01:23 am UTC (link)
No one tell her about role play. Her mind would explode.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-05-15 01:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ninwhore, 2010-05-15 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-05-15 02:03 am UTC

[info]ekaterinv
2010-05-15 01:28 am UTC (link)
Why is it that writers who have all sorts of totally fucked-up sex stuff in their books so often hate on honest, straightforward sex writing?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kantayra, 2010-05-15 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2010-05-15 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]grenadeofbees, 2010-05-16 12:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2010-05-17 05:32 am UTC

[info]synergasm
2010-05-15 01:38 am UTC (link)
Does this view extend to Weird Tales from Shakespeare? Or does that not count because it's a "tribute" to the Bard?

I do so love this comment.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]varpstone, 2010-05-15 07:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]w00b, 2010-05-29 03:13 am UTC

[info]oodlesoquim
2010-05-15 02:49 am UTC (link)
Oh crap. I LOVED Weird Tales of Shakespeare as a 14 year old, when it first came out.

Just... she edited a transformative works anthology. I... I don't under...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pfeffermuse, 2010-05-18 03:40 pm UTC

[info]kumquat_of_doom
2010-05-15 03:22 am UTC (link)
*looks left* *looks right*

Well, nobody's suggested it yet, so how's about a miniature drabblefest in tribute to Ms Kerr. NOT OF HER WORK, THAT'S JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE.

I contribute something I posted elsewhere in the comments: it's an NCIS/Sandman crossover that I've never managed to finish.

“Don’t be stupid,” Abby snapped, sounding breathless as she pounded on Gibbs’ chest. “He’s not gonna die! He’s Gibbs!

Death took a moment to flick through a mental list. She had to admit, Abby was perilously close to being right: this one just refused to give up. She'd done this twice before already and was going to have to do it another two times, and although his repartee had always been entertaining, repetition had never really been her thing. Hence a chat with the cute goth kid who was in the process of ensuring that Gibbs’ current predicament would be temporary. “Not this time, no. It’s what you call a near-death experience, only it’s reciprocal. He’s near death, I’m near him.”

One goth stared at another, even as Abby kept going with the heart massage. Flatly, “You’ve got to be joking.”

Death sighed. She was sure the guy with the skull never had this much difficulty getting people to believe him. Although to be fair, his look did leave far fewer opportunities for snazzy makeup... “No, although I know a great one about pigeons...” Helpfully, “You need to do the mouth-to-mouth again now.”

The look Abby gave her would have peeled paint.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2010-05-15 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-15 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2010-05-15 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2010-05-15 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eleutheria, 2010-05-15 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2010-05-15 06:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]were_lemur, 2010-05-22 09:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2010-05-17 03:25 pm UTC

[info]aegflota
2010-05-15 03:28 am UTC (link)
This makes me sadface. I couldn't give a stuff about Diana Gabaldon, but I like Katherine Kerr's stuff and always thought she seemed nice on a personal level too. World, stop failing.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - ariadne484, 2010-05-15 04:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]amaltheia, 2010-05-15 08:59 am UTC
A list of all the published fanfic I can think of:
[info]skijg
2010-05-15 04:09 am UTC (link)
Anything with Sherlock Holmes (movies, television serials, and books)
Syfy's Alice
Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland
Tim Burton's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's A Lost World (television series)
Pretty much any movie by Uwe Boll
Women of Genesis series, by Orson Scott Card
Any Dune book after Frank Herbert died
Marion Zimmer Bradley's Avalon books
Any of the hundreds of Jane Austen "sequels"
Pride and Prejudice and Zombies
Also Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters
Anytime a comic series changes writers (so pretty much every comic series ever)
Never Say Never Again (non-canonical Bond film starring Sean Connery)
Yu-Gi-Oh Abridged, Naruto Abridged, DBZ Abridged, etc
The Tudors
The Other Boleyn Girl
The Looking Glass Wars
Tin Man
Treasure Planet
Any of the non-original Muppet movies
Legend of Earthsea (bleh)
Merlin
Shakespeare in Love
Superman Returns
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Fallout 3


Help me out here, I know there must be a zillion more that I'm forgetting about.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - ariadne484, 2010-05-15 04:28 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]skijg, 2010-05-15 04:33 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]argylespy, 2010-05-15 04:31 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]wankismyfandom, 2010-05-15 04:48 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]chienne, 2010-05-15 05:46 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]skijg, 2010-05-15 06:10 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]iamnotyourmuse, 2010-05-15 06:51 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]rekall, 2010-05-15 07:24 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]izzy_the_hutt, 2010-05-16 08:10 pm UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]shukkhy, 2010-05-15 10:54 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]boutdpapier, 2010-05-15 10:06 pm UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]frequentmouse, 2010-05-16 01:30 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]redtienightly, 2010-05-16 02:10 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]dez_chan, 2010-05-16 10:14 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]mizii_marzen, 2010-05-16 01:18 pm UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - ariadne484, 2010-05-16 04:21 pm UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]pojypojy, 2010-05-16 05:57 pm UTC
damn typos - [info]pojypojy, 2010-05-16 06:00 pm UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-16 04:45 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]emily_goddess, 2010-05-17 04:58 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]hadisia, 2010-05-17 10:12 am UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]napalmnacey, 2010-05-17 03:29 pm UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]phosfate, 2010-05-18 03:29 pm UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-18 05:39 pm UTC
Re: A list of all the published fanfic I can think of: - [info]pariforma, 2010-05-19 07:16 pm UTC

[info]annella
2010-05-15 04:40 am UTC (link)
Wow, it's like all the authors I loved and idolised in my teenage years are lining up to tell me that my hobby is WRONG WRONG BAD WRONG WOW YOU ARE A SUCKY PERSON.

I wonder who will be next? (Please not Pratchett. I would cry forever. I can handle losing some respect for authors I don't really read anymore, but not him...)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2010-05-15 04:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]annella, 2010-05-15 05:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nagaina, 2010-05-15 04:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]annella, 2010-05-15 05:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]agent_hyatt, 2010-05-15 06:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eevee, 2010-05-15 10:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]annella, 2010-05-16 04:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]qem_chibati, 2010-05-16 04:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]annella, 2010-05-16 04:08 am UTC

[info]jupiterpluvius
2010-05-15 05:11 am UTC (link)
God, do you remember that guy who was always ripping off historians and other playwrights? You know, like Holinshed or Thomas Kyd or Christopher Marlowe?

Yeah, that Shakespeare guy. GOD DID HE SUCK. He sucked worse than Brian Patch.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2010-05-15 05:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]talec, 2010-05-15 09:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-15 12:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jupiterpluvius, 2010-05-15 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-16 04:34 am UTC
(no subject) - ariadne484, 2010-05-16 04:23 pm UTC

[info]eleutheria
2010-05-15 05:21 am UTC (link)
I liked the Gabaldon, GRRM, and Kerr RPF drabble someone put up in Fandom_stupid.

(Reply to this)


[info]alcesx2
2010-05-15 06:30 am UTC (link)
Just here for the awesome Herman's Hermits reference in the title. A+


I'm Henry the VIII, I am. Henry the VIII I am I am. . .

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-15 08:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alcesx2, 2010-05-15 09:16 pm UTC

[info]platedlizard
2010-05-15 08:00 am UTC (link)
For a moment there I was panicing, but then I realized the book I was reading was by Katherine Kurtz. Whew.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]annathepiper, 2010-05-15 08:46 am UTC

[info]dragonfangirl
2010-05-15 08:55 am UTC (link)
That's okay, I hate Katherine Kerr. Mind you, I don't know anything about her. So that's fair.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2010-05-15 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-16 02:28 am UTC

[info]gmth
2010-05-15 08:42 pm UTC (link)
Finally, an explanation of the Brian Patch.

I think we've reached the "stop saying words" phase now.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Just in case - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-15 08:52 pm UTC
Re: Just in case - [info]lydiabell, 2010-05-15 08:59 pm UTC
Re: Just in case - [info]gmth, 2010-05-15 09:00 pm UTC
Re: Just in case - [info]darkrose, 2010-05-16 01:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]grenadeofbees, 2010-05-16 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2010-05-16 02:05 am UTC

[info]woodenleg
2010-05-15 09:15 pm UTC (link)
However, the mobbing was rude to all the regular readers of this space. It bored them, it cut off their right of discussion, and I suspect it convinced some of them that my original post's opinion of fanfic writers was in the main correct.

So, what, only the people who agree with her are allowed to discuss it? That's not how discussions work, Kerr!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]alexa, 2010-05-15 10:01 pm UTC

[info]msmanna
2010-05-15 09:40 pm UTC (link)
Okay, that's it. There needs to be some kind of test to pass before authors are allowed to talk in public.

How on earth does anyone reach the point where they think that insulting paying customers in public is smart? Hate fanfic all you want, but don't run around screaming abuse at your most dedicated readers. God almighty.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2010-05-15 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alexa, 2010-05-15 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ivalice, 2010-05-15 11:40 pm UTC

[info]wonapalei
2010-05-15 10:09 pm UTC (link)
However, the mobbing was rude to all the regular readers of this space. It bored them, it cut off their right of discussion, and I suspect it convinced some of them that my original post's opinion of fanfic writers was in the main correct.
Considering I remember at least one reply directly to her post that seemed to be from a regular reader who was horrified to learn Kerr's (hypocritical, uninformed) opinion of fanfiction, I really don't think it had the effect she claims.

Also, how does other people commenting "cut off the right to discussion" of regular readers? Were their comment pages timing out as they desperately tried to defend their beloved author from the screaming hordes? Were they reduced to supporting Kerr in email?

(Reply to this)


[info]theelusiven
2010-05-15 11:27 pm UTC (link)
I love that one of her interests is ~serious fiction.~
Because fiction is the most SRS BSNS ever.

(Reply to this)


[info]eleutheria
2010-05-15 11:41 pm UTC (link)
3. A sloppy syllogism for those who didn't get the B'rer Rabbit point:
A. I dislike fanfic and don't want anyone writing it about my work.
B. If you don't read my work, you can't write about it.
C. Therefore threatening to ignore my work does not injure me in any way. Rather, I'm relieved that you won't.


I'm kind of gobsmacked by a published author, especially a midlist published author in these economic times, telling people, essentially, please don't read my books.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-16 01:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alexa, 2010-05-16 03:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tofuknight, 2010-05-16 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-16 04:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]innocentsmith, 2010-05-16 08:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-18 05:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]innocentsmith, 2010-05-18 06:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilsqueakers, 2010-05-18 06:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]elfwreck, 2010-05-16 03:42 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]librarianmouse, 2010-05-16 01:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragonfangirl, 2010-05-17 03:49 am UTC

[info]white_serpent
2010-05-16 12:24 am UTC (link)
3. A sloppy syllogism for those who didn't get the B'rer Rabbit point:
A. I dislike fanfic and don't want anyone writing it about my work.
B. If you don't read my work, you can't write about it.
C. Therefore threatening to ignore my work does not injure me in any way. Rather, I'm relieved that you won't.


Let's just examine how sloppy that syllogism is, shall we?

I read and write fanfiction, but only in fandoms where the creator doesn't mind.

I have read most of her books, but I've never read or written fanfiction for them (nor did I ever intend to). It's good to know she despises me for existing. I'll donate the books I own to charity and be sure to never buy any in the future. Oh, and no point recommending them to any friends who like fanfiction, either.

Yeah, I think her logical progression could use a little bit of work.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mechanicaljewel, 2010-05-16 05:57 pm UTC

[info]sunhawk
2010-05-16 12:44 am UTC (link)
Dear authors whose books I've actually read, stop flattering yourself that just because I read your stuff, I suddenly have this deathless desire to write fanfic about it. Most books/shows/movies don't do it for me like that, sorry to crush your hopes.

(Reply to this)



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