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	lilychan 2011-03-29 01:49 am UTC (link)
	The movie itself isn't that bad (I liked the ending, at least) but I just wish it was done better in terms of determining what was fantasy (other than the action sequences) and what was reality. But all I can say is to this wank: facepalm (Reply to this)(Thread)

	notjo 2011-03-29 02:06 am UTC (link)
	Oh wow, really? I actually hated the ending! Can you tell me what you liked about it? (No pressure, I'm just excited to talk to someone else who saw the movie.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	reovu 2011-03-29 02:08 am UTC (link)
	I saw it as well and I hated the ending too. It made absolutely no fucking sense (ok the whole movie didn't make sense) but it just..I don't know how to describe it.. forced? like it was trying too hard to fit with the whole "plot" but didn't work. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Spoilers!

notjo
2011-03-29 02:11 am UTC (link)

The thing that squicked me a lot was the lobotomy scene was pretty brutal and I was not prepared for it at all. I do a lot of reading & research around issues of abuse in historic asylums and in current long-term care centers and just the whole "I'm going to rape you now" thing hit way too hard for me because I know it happens with disturbing regularity. I kinda wish I had waited a few days to see it and asked someone about it first so I could have been prepared for that part.

I did, however, enjoy Nazi steampunk robot zombies.

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	Re: Spoilers! reovu 2011-03-29 02:19 am UTC (link)
	I agree with you about that. It was pretty uncomfortable to watch and I'm sorry you were hit with that without notice. I think the only thing I really liked about the film was the robot samurai fight. The landscapes were gorgeous to look at. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Spoilers! lilychan 2011-03-29 02:25 am UTC (link)
	The opening scenes really triggered for me but what really got me was what Blue tried to do to Baby after she got her... you know what. But, for some reason, I liked the robots though (except the last part ;_;). (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Spoilers! sadisticferret 2011-03-29 03:24 am UTC (link)
	That's pretty much how I felt about it. I liked the action fantasies, but everything else was either triggering at worst or just uncomfortably blunt at best. Like they were trying to horrify us with these scenarios, yet still in a really exploitative way. Like, "Ooooh, this is so horrible, but isn't it so hot?" Kind of like Dollhouse. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers! emily_goddess 2011-03-29 05:09 am UTC (link)
	"Ooooh, this is so horrible, but isn't it so hot?" Complete with the villain and the sexy doctor singing a fun song over the end credits, while the exploited women dance and smile. Mixed messages ahoy! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers! jellibean 2011-04-01 05:43 pm UTC (link)
	The end credit sequence was, by far, the most inappropriate credit sequence I have EVER seen. It was like, "Hey, remember the guy that abuses these women and tried to rape our protagonist 15 minutes ago? HERE HE IS SINGING A SONG with the doctor whose signature he's been forging for months/years/whatever. Isn't that fun?!" DDD: (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Spoilers! eleutheria 2011-03-29 10:24 am UTC (link)
	Like, "Ooooh, this is so horrible, but isn't it so hot?" Kind of like Dollhouse. That's the most cogently concise summary of Dollhouse I've ever seen. Usually when I try to express that opinion, I tl;dr all over the place. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers! reovu 2011-03-29 10:27 am UTC (link)
	sorry but is Dollhouse that show that got canned within a season or something? I remember being interested in it when it was airing but if that's the content it has then eh..maybe it was good it was canned? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Spoilers! -

eleutheria, 2011-03-29 10:41 am UTC

	Re: Spoilers! theladyfeylene 2011-03-30 09:35 pm UTC (link)
	I believe that was supposed to be commentary on how the sci-fi genre treats female characters, actually. That it's a genre that has made its money off of sexualizing and exploiting female characters. IE, the asylum/dance hall is the sci-fi genre. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Spoilers! puipui 2011-03-29 07:08 am UTC (link)
	just the whole "I'm going to rape you now" thing AAAH! Thank you for the spoilers, I enjoy knowing which movies to never see. :( (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers! notjo 2011-03-29 04:46 pm UTC (link)
	Seriously, Pui, the last five or so minutes are just terribly creepy and it was horrible. The video game sequences were a blast, but ... :( (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Spoilers! reovu 2011-03-31 01:10 pm UTC (link)
	I will say I'm glad Blue got his at the end and I assume/hope was rightfully punished. But the whole lobotomy scene was just hard to watch :( (Reply to this)(Parent)

Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

lilychan
2011-03-29 02:11 am UTC (link)

(Haha, I understand! I was the same way!) I just liked how it wrapped up, okay, in a very convenient way, but it felt right only because that Baby Doll realized that she needed to make a sacrifice - she needed to sacrifice herself in order for Sweet Pea to escape.

And I think, from what I understood, even though it was "mainly" Sweet Pea's story, it was all five of their stories (although I really do wish they called Blue out on the deaths of Amber and Blondie so we'd know what happened to them wasn't in Baby Doll's imagination).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

notjo
2011-03-29 02:13 am UTC (link)

Oh, yes, the sacrifice bit I really did enjoy. It was interesting that it basically meant the "main character" was SweatPea and BabyDoll was "only" the POV character. It certainly made me wonder a bit about whether or not BabyDoll herself was actually "real" at any point, in conjunction with the opening voice over about angels coming to you and speaking in other people's voices. I mean, we never hear BabyDoll speak at any point in the Asylum.

I was so upset about Amber & Blondie's deaths. :(

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

lilychan
2011-03-29 02:20 am UTC (link)

Honestly, I thought the older gentleman that kept showing up in Baby Doll's fantasies was the guardian angel (especially at the end when he stopped those officers from trying to question Sweet Pea) - but maybe, in a sense, he was only so he could lead Baby Doll into realization on what she needed to do to be free.

Yeah, I know what you mean but this, again, goes back to how I feel about the whole fantasy/reality conjuncture was handled. I was confused at first - did Baby Doll really accidentally kill her sister and did the step-father really try to molest them? Or was that part of her imagination?

Honestly, I was hoping that at least maybe Amber would be able to escape. :( I loved her scenes so much!

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	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! reovu 2011-03-29 02:25 am UTC (link)
	not really all that related, but it's kinda fascinating how even though the movie is regarded as really poor plot wise.. it still manages to make you think anyways haha. I thought the whole plot was a mess but these discussions still make me think. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 02:35 am UTC (link)
	But everything can make you think. I mean... Super Mario Brothers makes me think. Does the princess let herself be captured? Is she really having an affair with Bowser, and playing Mario for a fool? And what role does Luigi have to play in all this? I NEED ANSWERS! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! -

lilychan, 2011-03-29 02:36 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 02:37 am UTC

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reovu, 2011-03-29 02:39 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 02:41 am UTC

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aruru, 2011-03-29 04:49 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 05:00 am UTC

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reovu, 2011-03-29 04:53 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 05:26 am UTC

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lilychan, 2011-03-29 02:42 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 02:43 am UTC

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wankaholic, 2011-03-29 03:41 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 04:05 am UTC

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wankaholic, 2011-03-29 04:13 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 04:16 am UTC

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reovu, 2011-03-29 04:51 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 05:01 am UTC

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reovu, 2011-03-29 05:04 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 05:27 am UTC

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m_butterfly, 2011-03-30 12:27 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-30 12:33 am UTC

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beejium, 2011-03-29 05:40 am UTC

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ridureyu, 2011-03-29 05:47 am UTC

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theladyfeylene
2011-03-30 09:40 pm UTC (link)

I got the impression that the dancehall sub-reality was Sweet Pea's fantasy, with the way Baby and Sweet Pea's eyes meet and it shifts, and Sweet Pea is shown depicting Baby Doll in the first scene of the sub-reality. I did start to wonder at some point if Baby Doll and Sweet Pea were actually the same person - what with the sister thing, and the re-writing in the sub-reality of Baby as an orphan with no mention of her family. But I've heard that so much explanatory stuff was cut that even the writers and director were kind of 'mrrr' about how it impacted the story.

And I'm pretty sure Amber and Blondie were fine in reality, as Doctor Gorski runs down how much of what happened was real and not. (Setting the fire, stabbing an orderly and helping a patient escape.) Since there was no mention of any patients dying in all the hooplah, I think it only happened in the sub-reality.

But I'll admit right now I saw the movie Sunday and have been analyzing and pulling it apart in my head since then.

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

notjo
2011-03-30 09:46 pm UTC (link)

I read it as Amber & Blondie ended up being lobotomized as well, especially with the suddenness of their deaths - a quick sharp blow to the head, as it were.

I also spent some time wondering if BabyDoll & SweatPea were the same person, especially with that bit where she was dressed up as BabyDoll in the opening. I can totally see the brothel fantasy being SweatPea's, yes.

I spent a lot of time thinking about the movie as well. I keep wondering if I want to write a post about it but the conversation seems especially fraught right now.

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

theladyfeylene
2011-03-30 10:47 pm UTC (link)

Hmm, that's a really interesting way to look at it. I got the impression that lobotomies didn't happen very often, so that didn't even occur to me. It's definitely one of those movies that I want to watch multiple times, because I know I'll pick up on more on subsequent viewings. (I'll also admit right now that I was pretty high when I saw it, so my impressions may be completely off base!)

Yeah, same here. I want to post about it and talk about it, but...

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

kelschuu
2011-03-29 06:11 pm UTC (link)

OKAY I AM TL;DRING THE FUCK OUT OF THIS AND I AM SO SORRY IN ADVANCE.

But I loved it and here is why:

Ditto, and a part of me wonders if the other girls weren't fragments/figments of Sweet Pea's imagination - parts of herself that she had to 'give up' to be free (I PERHAPS OVERTHINK EVERYTHING). I mean, the girl WAS sent to a mental hospital (admittedly in a time where mouthing off could probably get you sent to one if you were a girl) for apparently only running away from home with her sister.

I also enjoyed the ending, though I understand why people don't like it. I liked it for the same reason why I love the ending to Revolutionary Girl Utena or Pan's Labyrinth. I hate endings where "WHELP MAIN CHARACTER DIES WHY THE FUCK DID YOU SIT IN THIS THEATER FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF? HAHA JOKE IS ON YOU." because as far as I'm concerned that makes a movie/series/what have you a big fucking failure and a waste of time.

But Babydoll's 'death' wasn't that. Sweet Pea escaped. Blue got his ass caught and arrested before he could take advantage of Babydoll's lobotomized state thus saving countless other girls and turning the whole fucking thing around because the other orderlies were also all "Okay no we are fed up with this, you're an asshole and this is wrong." AND as Blue is getting dragged off you can hear him yelling to the cops about how it was all the Step-Father's fault - so we can infer that HE'S going to get appropriately punished as well. I have to wonder if Amber, Blondie and Rockett died in 'realspace' as well (assuming they ever existed outside of templates of other girls used to create them in Sweet Pea/Babydoll's fantasy world) as when the Doctor Gorski tells the Lobotomizer at the end all the 'trouble' Babydoll has been in various plot points throughout the movie come up but the death of three girls there is never mentioned. Considering Babydoll was involved in all of those in the fantasy, you'd have think that would have been brought up as well, at least in passing.

Babydoll mattered, and by being there she changed everything for the better even if it meant a bad ending for her.

Also re: the Angel, I figured that both Babydoll and the Wise Man were one in the same and the angel, metaphorically speaking.

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theladyfeylene
2011-03-30 09:30 pm UTC (link)

A ton was cut out for editing purposes. The director's cut will apparently be a bit easier to understand, with more obvious distinctions between reality/sub-reality/dreamworld.

I'll admit right now that I really loved the movie. I'll also admit that I was high as a kite when I saw it, so.... shiny awesome visuals, steampunk zombies, awesome fight scenes and amazing covers of three of my absolute favorite songs ever? Yeah, I was happy.

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