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Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

lilychan
2011-03-29 02:11 am UTC (link)

(Haha, I understand! I was the same way!) I just liked how it wrapped up, okay, in a very convenient way, but it felt right only because that Baby Doll realized that she needed to make a sacrifice - she needed to sacrifice herself in order for Sweet Pea to escape.

And I think, from what I understood, even though it was "mainly" Sweet Pea's story, it was all five of their stories (although I really do wish they called Blue out on the deaths of Amber and Blondie so we'd know what happened to them wasn't in Baby Doll's imagination).

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

notjo
2011-03-29 02:13 am UTC (link)

Oh, yes, the sacrifice bit I really did enjoy. It was interesting that it basically meant the "main character" was SweatPea and BabyDoll was "only" the POV character. It certainly made me wonder a bit about whether or not BabyDoll herself was actually "real" at any point, in conjunction with the opening voice over about angels coming to you and speaking in other people's voices. I mean, we never hear BabyDoll speak at any point in the Asylum.

I was so upset about Amber & Blondie's deaths. :(

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

lilychan
2011-03-29 02:20 am UTC (link)

Honestly, I thought the older gentleman that kept showing up in Baby Doll's fantasies was the guardian angel (especially at the end when he stopped those officers from trying to question Sweet Pea) - but maybe, in a sense, he was only so he could lead Baby Doll into realization on what she needed to do to be free.

Yeah, I know what you mean but this, again, goes back to how I feel about the whole fantasy/reality conjuncture was handled. I was confused at first - did Baby Doll really accidentally kill her sister and did the step-father really try to molest them? Or was that part of her imagination?

Honestly, I was hoping that at least maybe Amber would be able to escape. :( I loved her scenes so much!

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	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! reovu 2011-03-29 02:25 am UTC (link)
	not really all that related, but it's kinda fascinating how even though the movie is regarded as really poor plot wise.. it still manages to make you think anyways haha. I thought the whole plot was a mess but these discussions still make me think. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 02:35 am UTC (link)
	But everything can make you think. I mean... Super Mario Brothers makes me think. Does the princess let herself be captured? Is she really having an affair with Bowser, and playing Mario for a fool? And what role does Luigi have to play in all this? I NEED ANSWERS! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! lilychan 2011-03-29 02:36 am UTC (link)
	IS SHE IN THE OTHER CASTLE OR NOT? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 02:37 am UTC (link)
	AND WHO ARE THOSE MYSTERIOUS MUSHROOM MEN? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! reovu 2011-03-29 02:39 am UTC (link)
	AND WHY DO PEOPLE EXPLODE INTO COINS? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE ANATOMICALLY? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 02:41 am UTC (link)
	AND WHY, OH WHY, DOES MARIO WEAR A TANOOKI SUIT? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! -

aruru, 2011-03-29 04:49 am UTC

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! -

ridureyu, 2011-03-29 05:00 am UTC

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! -

reovu, 2011-03-29 04:53 am UTC

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! -

ridureyu, 2011-03-29 05:26 am UTC

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! lilychan 2011-03-29 02:42 am UTC (link)
	AND WHY DO THE KOOPAS KEEPING SAYING "BIG BROTHER"? (fun fact: the way they make that sound is actually Chinese for older brother) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 02:43 am UTC (link)
	AND WHY DO THEY LEAVE THEIR SHELLS? TURTLES CAN'T LEAVE THEIR SHELLS! ARE THEY EVEN TURTLES? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! wankaholic 2011-03-29 03:41 am UTC (link)
	I'll just leave this here. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 04:05 am UTC (link)
	I see that, and I'll raise you one http://www.pressstarttoplay.net/comic/?cid=24 (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! wankaholic 2011-03-29 04:13 am UTC (link)
	That's great. :D (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 04:16 am UTC (link)
	"You monster!" (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! reovu 2011-03-29 04:51 am UTC (link)
	by the way: I realize now how stupid my comment was but I'm glad this was the outcome (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 05:01 am UTC (link)
	Screaming about the Mysteries of Mario is always preferable to causing more wank, right? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! reovu 2011-03-29 05:04 am UTC (link)
	as always (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 05:27 am UTC (link)
	Next Up: Mysteries of Pac-Man DOES THE GHOST MAZE EVER END? IS THIS HELL? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! -

m_butterfly, 2011-03-30 12:27 am UTC

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! -

ridureyu, 2011-03-30 12:33 am UTC

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! beejium 2011-03-29 05:40 am UTC (link)
	Oh geez, thanks for reminding me of this picture I found last night. http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/074/943/original/1284242093166.jpg?1286074838 Internet! shakes fist (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution! ridureyu 2011-03-29 05:47 am UTC (link)
	Dude, that's fucked up. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

theladyfeylene
2011-03-30 09:40 pm UTC (link)

I got the impression that the dancehall sub-reality was Sweet Pea's fantasy, with the way Baby and Sweet Pea's eyes meet and it shifts, and Sweet Pea is shown depicting Baby Doll in the first scene of the sub-reality. I did start to wonder at some point if Baby Doll and Sweet Pea were actually the same person - what with the sister thing, and the re-writing in the sub-reality of Baby as an orphan with no mention of her family. But I've heard that so much explanatory stuff was cut that even the writers and director were kind of 'mrrr' about how it impacted the story.

And I'm pretty sure Amber and Blondie were fine in reality, as Doctor Gorski runs down how much of what happened was real and not. (Setting the fire, stabbing an orderly and helping a patient escape.) Since there was no mention of any patients dying in all the hooplah, I think it only happened in the sub-reality.

But I'll admit right now I saw the movie Sunday and have been analyzing and pulling it apart in my head since then.

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

notjo
2011-03-30 09:46 pm UTC (link)

I read it as Amber & Blondie ended up being lobotomized as well, especially with the suddenness of their deaths - a quick sharp blow to the head, as it were.

I also spent some time wondering if BabyDoll & SweatPea were the same person, especially with that bit where she was dressed up as BabyDoll in the opening. I can totally see the brothel fantasy being SweatPea's, yes.

I spent a lot of time thinking about the movie as well. I keep wondering if I want to write a post about it but the conversation seems especially fraught right now.

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

theladyfeylene
2011-03-30 10:47 pm UTC (link)

Hmm, that's a really interesting way to look at it. I got the impression that lobotomies didn't happen very often, so that didn't even occur to me. It's definitely one of those movies that I want to watch multiple times, because I know I'll pick up on more on subsequent viewings. (I'll also admit right now that I was pretty high when I saw it, so my impressions may be completely off base!)

Yeah, same here. I want to post about it and talk about it, but...

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Re: Spoilers from here on then, I guess! Proceed with caution!

kelschuu
2011-03-29 06:11 pm UTC (link)

OKAY I AM TL;DRING THE FUCK OUT OF THIS AND I AM SO SORRY IN ADVANCE.

But I loved it and here is why:

Ditto, and a part of me wonders if the other girls weren't fragments/figments of Sweet Pea's imagination - parts of herself that she had to 'give up' to be free (I PERHAPS OVERTHINK EVERYTHING). I mean, the girl WAS sent to a mental hospital (admittedly in a time where mouthing off could probably get you sent to one if you were a girl) for apparently only running away from home with her sister.

I also enjoyed the ending, though I understand why people don't like it. I liked it for the same reason why I love the ending to Revolutionary Girl Utena or Pan's Labyrinth. I hate endings where "WHELP MAIN CHARACTER DIES WHY THE FUCK DID YOU SIT IN THIS THEATER FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF? HAHA JOKE IS ON YOU." because as far as I'm concerned that makes a movie/series/what have you a big fucking failure and a waste of time.

But Babydoll's 'death' wasn't that. Sweet Pea escaped. Blue got his ass caught and arrested before he could take advantage of Babydoll's lobotomized state thus saving countless other girls and turning the whole fucking thing around because the other orderlies were also all "Okay no we are fed up with this, you're an asshole and this is wrong." AND as Blue is getting dragged off you can hear him yelling to the cops about how it was all the Step-Father's fault - so we can infer that HE'S going to get appropriately punished as well. I have to wonder if Amber, Blondie and Rockett died in 'realspace' as well (assuming they ever existed outside of templates of other girls used to create them in Sweet Pea/Babydoll's fantasy world) as when the Doctor Gorski tells the Lobotomizer at the end all the 'trouble' Babydoll has been in various plot points throughout the movie come up but the death of three girls there is never mentioned. Considering Babydoll was involved in all of those in the fantasy, you'd have think that would have been brought up as well, at least in passing.

Babydoll mattered, and by being there she changed everything for the better even if it meant a bad ending for her.

Also re: the Angel, I figured that both Babydoll and the Wise Man were one in the same and the angel, metaphorically speaking.

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