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a collection : gathering flowers ([info]anthologia) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2011-05-05 16:34:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:books/authors, omg mock people mock, person: neil gaiman, political wank, twitter, wanking inside the house

Tax deductables! Pencil necks! Thieves! HIGH SPEED CAR CHASES!
Well, all right, maybe not high speed car chases. So, the background: last year, Neil Gaiman, author of such lovely things as Neverwhere and the Sandman series etc., was contacted to speak at a library in Minnesota for a hefty speaking fee, which was paid for by a fund which (a) stated any leftover money would be lost if not used, and (b) was also not available for books, salaries, or other useful things. Neil Gaiman did so, and subsequently donated the speaking fee to charities.

All's well that ends well, right? Well, except that Matt Dean, the House Majority Leader, decided it was time to let his long-simmering grudge be aired to the world: 'Dean said that Gaiman, "who I hate," was a "pencil-necked little weasel who stole $45,000 from the state of Minnesota."'

Neil is... well, he's not well pleased. Nor is his Twitter.

"Sad & funny. Minnesota Republicans have a "hate" list. Like Nixon did. I'm on it. They also don't like capitalism. http://t.co/FObmLGo"

"It's strange watching a grownup high school bully in power. But the bully vocabulary remains the same. http://t.co/FObmLGo"

"And for those curious how and why I made it onto the hate list, what I wrote at the time on my blog. http://bit.ly/lMxsWQ"

"Any nice, sane Minnesota Republicans reading this, please vote for someone who isn't a bully with a hate list next time."

"You can listen to the Stillwater speech that all the Pencil-neck fuss is about at http://bit.ly/k3lA1B (You need to go down to point 2.)"

He also happened to link to Dean's blog, which proceeded to crash. Whoops.

So you'd think that Dean would realize his mistake and apologize, right? Well... sort of. Why?

His mommy made him do it.

The universe collectively facepalms.


(Bonus funny from the comments, courtesy from someone called Lucas: "Do weasel thieves steal just weasels? Or do they also steal ferrets, otters, and wolverines? In the case of the latter, how do they arrange for transportation?")



(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]sandglass
2011-05-06 04:04 am UTC (link)
He made a comment about American cemeteries having, "a few dead Indians" and took for-fucking-ever to apologize for it (happened April, apologized October). And claimed that being called racist is a terrible insult.

Aaaand now I'm mad at him again.

(I'm also still pretty pissed about everything sourrounding Amanda Palmer's crip drag, and he sided with her obnoxiously on it.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]visp
2011-05-06 04:18 am UTC (link)
He made a comment about American cemeteries having, "a few dead Indians"

Man, if we get into the full thing here, it'll take away the funny, but, I just feel that we need to remember one important thing. He's not American. How much do you know about the indigenous peoples of other countries? How about the oppression of the Ainu by the ruling classes in medieval Japan? The problems of the native Okinawans? The world does not revolve around the USA and it's not fair to expect foreigners to be sensitive to all the nuances of our culture.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]jat_sapphire
2011-05-06 04:25 am UTC (link)
Well, did he move to Wisconsin yesterday?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]visp
2011-05-06 06:36 am UTC (link)
Do you take full history classes on a country when you move there?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ekaterinv
2011-05-06 07:39 pm UTC (link)
European (mostly British in what is now the U.S.) settlers committed mass genocide while "settling" the Americas, and after they started calling themselves "American", they continued it. You don't need "full history classes" to know it. This is bigger than not knowing some random date. It's more like not knowing slavery existed or that North America is no longer a colony of Britain.

Besides which, Gaiman knew. He knows. In more detail and depth than most people, I'd be willing to wager, because he is intelligent, intellectually curious and educated. He also very often says privileged douchebaggy things.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sgaana
2011-05-06 10:01 pm UTC (link)
Do you NOT take full history classes on a country just because you don't live there? For every hypothetical person whom you can argue would not choose to learn anything about a country of which they were becoming a resident, you can point to other examples of people who choose to learn more about other countries' culture and history just because they feel they want to or should, without having any "reason".

I looked up one day and realized that I didn't know anything about the history of Australia beyond a few basic facts that I'd picked up here and there. I went out and got a few general history books and read them. I did the same with a big comprehensive history of Canada when I realized it was silly for me not to know more about the history and culture of a neighboring country whose tv I watch a lot.

Which is not to say "yay me" but only to point out that it happens.

At any rate, we're arguing here about the reasonable-to-assume knowledge base of a specific person, not people in general. There are fairly good reasons to assume that Gaiman in particular would be more aware of American history and culture than most non-Americans. And saying that one thinks that HE ought to be is NOT the same thing as saying that "America is the center of the universe".

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2011-05-06 11:20 pm UTC

[info]sandglass
2011-05-06 04:31 am UTC (link)
It still took him like six months to apologize for it, and he got his fans to troll the person calling him out on it, and he pitched a fit about being called a racist. Yeah, the world doesn't revolve around America, but he still managed to fail a lot independent of the original gaff.

Also, I think the genocide of the Native Americans is a lot more publicized than the oppression of Japanese minority groups. Not that that makes a huge amount of difference, but it's not really the same situation. Also, I'm not an author published in Japan who has travelled there, whereas Gaiman is published in America and at least had visited America a lot before making that statement.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]visp
2011-05-06 06:39 am UTC (link)
Also, I think the genocide of the Native Americans is a lot more publicized than the oppression of Japanese minority groups.

*twitch* In America, probably. Everywhere else... America is not the center of the earth. Our history is not more important than any others.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2011-05-06 06:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]visp, 2011-05-06 07:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-05-06 08:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moljn, 2011-05-06 10:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emily_goddess, 2011-05-08 04:25 pm UTC

[info]visp
2011-05-06 06:44 am UTC (link)
I'm not saying he handled the situation very well, but as someone who's lived in a lot of other countries I have a huge pet peeve about Americans automatically assuming that everyone else should know all of America's cultural and historical background.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2011-05-06 07:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]napalmnacey, 2011-05-06 08:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2011-05-06 09:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruslan, 2011-05-06 09:57 pm UTC

[info]sgaana
2011-05-06 04:41 am UTC (link)
I think it's a little more fair when it's someone who makes his living as a writer specifically by repurposing the stories of other cultures (in addition to his own), and who often tries to say that he does a great deal of research into the cultures that he is writing about.

He wrote a book called American Gods, after all.

We're not talking about Joe Random British Person here.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]phosfate
2011-05-06 07:48 pm UTC (link)
I believe you mean Joseph Random-British Personne. Pronounced "Chumly."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2011-05-06 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2011-05-06 07:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2011-05-06 07:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2011-05-06 07:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2011-05-06 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2011-05-06 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2011-05-06 08:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2011-05-06 08:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2011-05-06 08:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2011-05-06 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2011-05-06 09:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2011-05-07 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jerel, 2011-05-08 05:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2011-05-06 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emily_goddess, 2011-05-08 04:28 pm UTC

[info]tunxeh
2011-05-06 04:45 am UTC (link)
Is his statement not completely factual? It *sounds* offensive because it appears to be minimizes the fact that there were very much more than a few Native Americans who lived and died here long before the European settlers came. But I think that's a misreading.

The actual context is about a story set in a graveyard. You know, the places with the headstones and all. And I suspect that it is a true statement that most U.S. graveyards have only a few Native American bodies and before them, nothing. Because the Native American graveyards aren't in the same places and were taken over and bulldozed and turned into something else and now you mostly can't find them any more.

So, in fact, his story would not have worked to be set in the U.S., for exactly the reason he states. You can fault him for using the word "Indian", I suppose, but that word is still used officially for instance in the name of the Bureau of Screwing Native Americans Bureau of Indian Affairs, and you can fault him for writing something easily misinterpreted, but I don't think what he actually meant by what he said is in any way problematic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sandglass
2011-05-06 05:08 am UTC (link)
His statement was (AFAIK) factual and true to his story, but hugely insensitive. It sounded too much like, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian", and it was very dismissive of genocide. Which he acknowledged in his apology.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eleutheria
2011-05-06 05:33 am UTC (link)
It is fair if that's what they're making their living writing about. And if they're moving there.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]visp
2011-05-06 06:40 am UTC (link)
He didn't write about an American Graveyard. And American Gods really wasn't something that involved a lot of American historical background. It was all about mythologies.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eldritch
2011-05-06 07:09 am UTC (link)
If he made the remark out of ignorance, okay. But let me refer you to this helpful little chart.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sandglass
2011-05-06 07:18 am UTC (link)
That chart is beautiful.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]visp
2011-05-06 07:32 am UTC (link)
A very good point.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ekaterinv
2011-05-06 06:48 pm UTC (link)
First, he lives in America. Second, he's English. The English did a whole lot of killing when they got to this continent, and they didn't consider themselves anything but English at the time. Further, he's educated and wealthy. He has every privilege possible, unless he has an illness of which I am unaware. What he said wasn't said out of ignorance, it was said to try to be funny. And it wasn't.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cmdr_zoom
2011-05-06 07:06 pm UTC (link)
It reminds me of JKR's offhand comment that of course the US would have "their own school." Right. One school should suffice for a country with six times the population and thousands of times the land area. Also, we can visit both the Grand Canyon and Disneyworld in the same day.

Fair comparison? I dunno. But it's what I think of.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sandglass
2011-05-06 10:14 pm UTC (link)
Resisting the urge to discuss the percentage of people who are wizards vs. muggles and how that would influence how many wizarding schools the US would need is so hard.

Six, I'm guessing, or maybe one six times the size of Hogwarts, but hm, how much did wizards immigrate to America compared to muggles? That could throw off the balance considerably either way!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-05-06 10:26 pm UTC

[info]darlas_mom
2011-05-07 04:04 am UTC (link)
Also, we can visit both the Grand Canyon and Disneyworld in the same day.

I'm sorry, you just reminded me of when I had to hug the hell out of one of my British friends because she had been told the Grand Canyon goes from California to Canada.

I realize the Grand Canyon is not relevant to her interests, but dude. Surely the person who told her this had seen a globe or atlas at some point that didn't show a ginormous 1,300-mile-long continental divide up the western United States?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2011-05-07 09:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]midnight_hawk, 2011-05-07 04:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darksumomo, 2011-05-07 10:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jujubee, 2011-05-09 03:35 am UTC

[info]kumquat_of_doom
2011-05-07 05:31 pm UTC (link)
Gosh, the nerve of JKR, deciding that she wasn't going to waste her time delineating and describing the US magical population whilst writing a series of books set exclusively in Britain.

Not particularly caring about the US is allowed, it really is.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eilan, 2011-05-08 01:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2011-05-08 03:04 pm UTC

[info]visp
2011-05-07 10:34 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, that's sorta where I went with it. Except in this his case he was actually being entirely correct, but what he didn't understand was that some people would feel it brought up unpleasant references.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]phosfate
2011-05-09 04:05 pm UTC (link)
I would imagine that American wizards can, in fact, visit the Grand Canyon and Disneyworld in the same day.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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