Log In

Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Developer Area

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area



miraba ([info]miraba) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2013-02-24 10:24:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:ao3, author entitlement, bitter so bitter, deep fanfic thoughts, dogpile, everyone entitlement, fandom: the avengers, fanfic, far too complicated, kudos, misplaced anger, reader entitlement

Writing fanfic is totally like running a restaurant.
Taken from a kind anon, with some small changes made.

Ice, an author of some regard in the Avengers fandom, is no stranger to wank. A few months ago, she attached a long author's note to one of her fics that, simplified, requested readers not leave kudos (still needs caps):

"You know what? I am currently in too much fucking pain and under too much fucking stress to give a flying fuck about social conduct.

I had one simple wish — no kudos.

I keep on asking that on every fic and every fucking time on every fucking one of them, there's a person who just... what? Can’t help themselves? Well done. Thanks for reminding me, over and over again, that I must, indeed, not post my stuff and hope for a simple fucking courtesy to respect my fucking wishes."


Fail_Fandomanon and Tumblr got ahold of the story and promptly spammed it with kudos.
Since then, her fics have continued to be subject of kudosing and - in her mind- low comment counts when compared to the rest of the fandom. Thus, she decides to leave the ficdoms in a blaze of glory.

By writing a longform analogy comparing writing fanfic to running a restaurant. (Original link BALEETED, caps HERE.)

This immediately lands on Avengersanon, Fail_Fandomanon and Tumblr, and subsequently her comment pages fill up with snark. (All deleted: page 1, page 2, page 3, and page 4, with bonus fic.). There's even podfic! After trying to orphan the piece (since deleted), Ice deleted all of her Avengers fanfic, leaving her table AO3 account empty of Avengers content.

For a bonus treat, be sure to read this gem from the wank report, in which a disgruntled ex-ficwriting mousie pops up to sympathize with Ice and humblebrag about her important profic writing career, eventually declaiming all feedback-denying fanfic readers and non-pro fanfic authors as a "whiny ass bunch of freeloaders" and "doormats," respectively, who may or may not be in an abusive relationship.




Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>

(Post a new comment)


[info]sistercoyote
2013-02-24 06:31 pm UTC (link)
Whut?

(Reply to this)


[info]redcoast
2013-02-24 07:10 pm UTC (link)
I'm watching "Kitchen Nightmares" right now, and I can say that Gordon Ramsay would not approve of that hypothetical restaurant.

(Reply to this)


[info]ashinae
2013-02-24 07:13 pm UTC (link)
But--but--I love my kudos. Every "you've got kudos!" e-mail I get fills me with warm fuzzies.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2013-02-24 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-24 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2013-02-24 08:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2013-02-24 09:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yoritomo_reiko, 2013-02-24 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dizmo, 2013-02-25 10:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2013-02-25 10:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]queencallipygos, 2013-02-25 03:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-02-26 03:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]herdivineshadow, 2013-02-24 11:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squeakytoy, 2013-02-25 12:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squeakytoy, 2013-02-25 05:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-02-25 11:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]empy, 2013-02-26 07:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistercoyote, 2013-02-24 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-24 08:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cygnia, 2013-02-24 09:14 pm UTC
You've got kudos! - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:39 am UTC
Re: You've got kudos! - [info]cygnia, 2013-02-25 04:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2013-02-25 06:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cygnia, 2013-02-25 04:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2013-02-24 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2013-02-25 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]herdivineshadow, 2013-02-24 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-02-25 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2013-02-25 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahiru, 2013-02-25 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squeakytoy, 2013-02-25 01:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ellensmithee, 2013-02-25 03:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]soc_puppet, 2013-02-28 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cairea, 2013-02-25 04:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 04:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cairea, 2013-02-25 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 05:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jay_linden, 2013-02-25 08:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eldritch, 2013-02-25 04:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-25 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-02-25 06:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-28 06:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2013-02-25 08:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-28 06:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2013-02-26 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-28 07:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2013-02-28 07:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-28 07:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-02-28 07:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-02-28 07:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dorothy1901, 2013-03-01 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-03-02 03:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2013-03-02 05:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-03-02 03:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ldymusyc, 2013-02-26 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-28 07:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ldymusyc, 2013-02-28 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sabaceanbabe, 2013-02-26 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashinae, 2013-02-28 07:08 am UTC

[info]eevee
2013-02-24 07:15 pm UTC (link)
You spend your day in the kitchen preparing food, you're serving food, it's a one man job.

So um, what about the people who actually designed and run AO3? What about THEIR feelings? Just saying.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2013-02-25 04:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2013-02-25 11:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eevee, 2013-02-25 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]uldihaa, 2013-02-25 11:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2013-02-25 11:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-02-26 08:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2013-03-02 05:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-02-26 08:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seanchaigirl, 2013-03-04 06:47 am UTC

[info]ram
2013-02-24 07:33 pm UTC (link)
I don't understand, and I think it's probably best it stays that way.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tunxeh, 2013-02-27 07:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ram, 2013-02-27 09:38 am UTC

[info]sorchar
2013-02-24 08:03 pm UTC (link)
Wow. I haven't seen too much wank in Avengers fandom, and now I know why. She was hoarding it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2013-02-25 02:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2013-02-25 04:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]uldihaa, 2013-02-25 11:35 pm UTC

[info]pauraque
2013-02-24 08:20 pm UTC (link)
I had one simple wish — no kudos.

Then why did she post her work on the one site where kudos actually exist?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2013-02-24 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quantumreality, 2013-02-24 09:48 pm UTC

[info]phosfate
2013-02-24 08:26 pm UTC (link)
...

(Reply to this)


[info]ekaterinv
2013-02-24 09:06 pm UTC (link)
So, Ice thinks running a restaurant could ever be a one-person job. Also she appears to think it's bad to share recipes from restaurants, even after said restaurants shut down. Also, she really needs a nap.

Did anyone actually get angry with her for stopping writing fanfic? Because I don't really trust her view of stuff that happens. She strikes me as kinda like one of those people who gets horribly offended when you say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas".

As for the "pro author": "I now even quality as a best seller." Bzuh?

If you like it enough to want updates, would it kill you to just say 'thanks'?

Kudos are thanks. But hey, if you want to Humpty Dumpty terms so that you can be a poor abused butterfly, go ahead. It's funny.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]herdivineshadow, 2013-02-24 11:42 pm UTC

[info]cmdr_zoom
2013-02-24 09:06 pm UTC (link)
The restaurant analogy is fail for one simple reason:
Plenty of people are (or were) thanking her. They just weren't sitting down to write detailed restaurant reviews and leaving them on the counter or mailing them in to the local paper.
"Thanks" and a wave and a "see you next week"? Not good enough, dammit.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2013-02-24 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-02-25 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2013-02-25 06:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]uldihaa, 2013-02-25 10:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2013-02-25 08:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2013-02-28 11:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2013-03-01 12:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2013-02-26 12:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-02-25 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2013-02-26 01:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]luthe, 2013-02-27 08:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2013-02-27 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-02-26 02:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sandglass, 2013-02-26 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]soc_puppet, 2013-02-28 04:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adevyish, 2013-02-25 11:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]uldihaa, 2013-02-25 10:58 am UTC

[info]khym_chanur
2013-02-24 10:59 pm UTC (link)
So is this one of those fanfic authors who think that if the reader likes the fic, the reader should repay the author with constructive criticism? And is annoyed when people who like the story don't leave constructive criticism?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2013-02-25 02:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2013-02-25 04:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2013-02-25 07:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yndigot, 2013-02-25 06:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lied_ohne_worte, 2013-02-25 08:49 am UTC

[info]maryaminx
2013-02-25 12:06 am UTC (link)
I never read the original fic or the terrible analogy, but the podficced version is *beautiful*.

(Reply to this)


[info]catmoran
2013-02-25 12:48 am UTC (link)
...

When I first heard of this wank, I thought the author didn't want attention or something. Which, posting to AO3 seems to be an odd way to achieve that, but whatever floats your boat, you know? And too bad not everyone reads the author's notes or people get carried away or whatever.

But the truth is so much more demanding than that!

(Reply to this)


[info]ahiru
2013-02-25 01:30 am UTC (link)
That is an amazing special snowflake flounce if I ever saw one. She's serving you all amazing free food out of the goodness of her heart, people, and all you can do is give her kudos! Ungrateful swine!

(Reply to this)


[info]yndigot
2013-02-25 06:40 am UTC (link)
If I'm going to comment on a fic, I'm going to comment, regardless of whether or not a kudos button exists.

The kudos button gives me the option to say 'I liked this' on a fic I otherwise wouldn't have given feedback to at all.

Don't get me wrong. I write fanfic and original fiction and I love hearing a long, detailed squee about everything someone loved in my writing. But fanfiction is a hobby for both the readers and the writers. Some people don't have a lot to contribute beyond 'I liked this' and some people don't have the time to tell you what they liked. Some people are shy and don't want to interact with the authors (and potentially other readers who can see their comments). The kudos button gives those people a way to acknowledge that they enjoyed something.

TL;DR -- people leaving kudos without comments weren't going to comment anyway. This is the only feedback you were ever going to get from them. Be happy that they enjoyed what you wrote.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]verlaine, 2013-03-01 12:59 am UTC

[info]brennalarose
2013-02-25 06:52 am UTC (link)
...I...Don't...Fuck it, I can't even.

To paraphrase, "Lighten up! It's just Fanfic!"

(Reply to this)


[info]dizmo
2013-02-25 10:11 am UTC (link)
Oh, to add another shade of wank, the orphaned version was apparently a repost from someone on lol_meme: (Right over here.)

(Reply to this)


[info]hilohello
2013-02-25 11:43 am UTC (link)
There was also a bunch of wank on FFA about whether or not leaving a bunch of kudos was harrassment, then somebody made a Fandom Secret about it which, uh, I can't find right now.

So, that was a thing.

(Reply to this)


[info]tez
2013-02-25 12:05 pm UTC (link)
So...what, are kudos like gluten and she has the fanfic equivalent of celiac disease or something?

Kudos could be triggering an allergic response, guys.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2013-02-25 11:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pauraque, 2013-02-26 12:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2013-02-26 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tez, 2013-02-26 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady_ganesh, 2013-02-26 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tez, 2013-02-27 06:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2013-02-26 06:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tez, 2013-02-26 06:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2013-02-26 06:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tez, 2013-02-26 07:07 am UTC

[info]sepiamagpie
2013-02-25 05:56 pm UTC (link)
What if a kudos killed her father? Insensitive much.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-02-25 05:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-02-25 05:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-02-25 06:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-02-25 06:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-02-25 06:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-02-25 06:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-02-25 06:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-02-25 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-02-25 06:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyvyola, 2013-02-25 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mrbimble, 2013-02-27 06:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lady7jane, 2013-02-25 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]paladin, 2013-02-25 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2013-02-26 09:10 pm UTC

[info]seca
2013-02-25 07:00 pm UTC (link)
Her restaurant must have terrible customer service as the basics of that would have informed her that the feed back you tend to get are from those that really loved the experience and those who hated it. And most customers will fall in between that and not say anything at all.

(Reply to this)


[info]the_sun_is_up
2013-02-25 08:01 pm UTC (link)
I really have zero patience for people who complain about getting praise and affection.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]singe, 2013-03-01 12:43 am UTC

[info]veneotaqueen
2013-02-25 11:04 pm UTC (link)
Oh, man, This remids me of that gal in the Spanish-speaking fandom years ago that compared her butthurt with people pointing out her obvious writing fails with an architect receiving bad comments about his buildings, with the implication that the random people "hurtful" comments have the power of demoralize the architect and destroy the building.

But at least that fic writer was complaining about receiving criticism (and maybe some trolling). This one is the equivalent of complaining about receiving a lot of gifts on Christmas but not all of then were properly wrapped and ribbon-decorated.

(Reply to this)


[info]kumquat_of_doom
2013-02-26 02:32 am UTC (link)
Oh well, if it works!

Please don't give me any kudos, guys. I hate kudos so much I might pseuicide messily or something if ANYONE AT ALL gives me kudos.

I'll definitely pseuicide if I get loads of concrit. Hate that even worse than I do kudos (kudoii?).

HONEST GUV.

>.>

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sabaceanbabe, 2013-02-26 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2013-02-27 02:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-02-27 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2013-02-27 09:51 pm UTC

[info]badger
2013-02-28 07:29 am UTC (link)
Well, now I'm just full-blown gonzo confused. I post on A3, and read a fair amount there as well, and I was not aware that giving a story kudos was damaging to the writer's self-esteem. I generally only comment if the story's really really good, moves me in some way, or is written by someone I know personally. I don't leave comments on some stories because, while I like them, sometimes I can't think of anything to say that someone else hasn't already said.

And for me, kudos are just as good as comments. At least it means people are reading my stories and like them enough to give me some form of feedback. It's probably just as well she quit the site. I'm amazed such a delicate snowflake managed to last as long as she did in such a stifling atmosphere.

Also, the restaurant comparison is total fail. I've worked in restaurants, and I have yet to see one where one person did all the work. You've got your owner, you've got your manager, you've got your waitresses and waiters, you've got your cooks. The closest you can get to one person running a restaurant is your mom making your breakfast. And that's assuming she pours the milk on your cereal for you.

(Reply to this)



Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>

 
   
Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map