Entry tags:

ao3, author entitlement, bitter so bitter, deep fanfic thoughts, dogpile, everyone entitlement, fandom: the avengers, fanfic, far too complicated, kudos, misplaced anger, reader entitlement

Writing fanfic is totally like running a restaurant.
Taken from a kind anon, with some small changes made.

Ice, an author of some regard in the Avengers fandom, is no stranger to wank. A few months ago, she attached a long author's note to one of her fics that, simplified, requested readers not leave kudos (still needs caps):

"You know what? I am currently in too much fucking pain and under too much fucking stress to give a flying fuck about social conduct.

I had one simple wish — no kudos.

I keep on asking that on every fic and every fucking time on every fucking one of them, there's a person who just... what? Can’t help themselves? Well done. Thanks for reminding me, over and over again, that I must, indeed, not post my stuff and hope for a simple fucking courtesy to respect my fucking wishes."

Fail_Fandomanon and Tumblr got ahold of the story and promptly spammed it with kudos.
Since then, her fics have continued to be subject of kudosing and - in her mind- low comment counts when compared to the rest of the fandom. Thus, she decides to leave the ficdoms in a blaze of glory.

By writing a longform analogy comparing writing fanfic to running a restaurant. (Original link BALEETED, caps HERE.)

This immediately lands on Avengersanon, Fail_Fandomanon and Tumblr, and subsequently her comment pages fill up with snark. (All deleted: page 1, page 2, page 3, and page 4, with bonus fic.). There's even podfic! After trying to orphan the piece (since deleted), Ice deleted all of her Avengers fanfic, leaving her table AO3 account empty of Avengers content.

For a bonus treat, be sure to read this gem from the wank report, in which a disgruntled ex-ficwriting mousie pops up to sympathize with Ice and humblebrag about her important profic writing career, eventually declaiming all feedback-denying fanfic readers and non-pro fanfic authors as a "whiny ass bunch of freeloaders" and "doormats," respectively, who may or may not be in an abusive relationship.

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	iczer6 2013-02-24 09:51 pm UTC (link)
	And screw anyone who's shy or has anxiety. They should get over that solely to kiss her ass. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	janegraddell 2013-02-25 01:51 am UTC (link)
	This, so much. I think I love the kudos button more as a writer than I do as a reader. It honestly gives me exactly what I want in terms of positive feedback, and it doesn't put any pressure on the reader. And if someone wants to make a detailed comment, there's the comment field right there! Win/Win/Win. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

iczer6
2013-02-25 06:24 am UTC (link)

This was brought up in a fanficrants discussion but I think a lot writers don't realize that leaving detailed crit takes effort and talent. That sometimes writing a detailed review can take almost as much effort as writing a fic.

And it doesn't help that a lot of authors claim they want detailed feedback only to flip out when they actually get since it usually involves pointing out flaws in the work.

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uldihaa
2013-02-25 10:56 am UTC (link)

leaving detailed crit takes effort

This. Spending over half an hour writing a detailed crit, with examples and suggestions on what might work better and why, on not just the current chapter but the whole work-to-date is work. All to often the reviewer will be completely ignored and that makes her or him reluctant to do it the next time and the time after that. He/she starts writing shorter and shorter reviews until they've devolved into being nothing more than "I like it, want more."

I might be just a bit soured on leaving crit these days.

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	singe 2013-02-25 08:38 pm UTC (link)
	Yup, and if it's not ignored it's seen as an attack. I left pleasant but detailed crit once and the recipient wigged out and accused me of stalking her. Now every time she gets a comment from someone pointing out the same flaws in her fic that I mentioned she thinks it's ME harassing her with a new sockpuppet. Yyyyeah no. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iczer6 2013-02-28 11:37 pm UTC (link)
	Heck didn't have a wank no so long ago about an author in the same fandom throwing a shitfit because someone pointed out she misused punctuation in her fic? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	singe 2013-03-01 12:40 am UTC (link)
	They all blur together. One loud, stupid, whiny blur. (Reply to this)(Parent)

ladybirdsleeps
2013-02-26 12:49 am UTC (link)

This is why I ask before leaving detailed crit - it gives the author a chance to say no, they don't want it, or no, it won't be helpful for that fic, but they're looking for feedback on this other one.

Some authors really want crit, some don't but feel pressured to pretend that they do, some want crit but only on stories they've written in the past year, and so on and so forth. It doesn't make sense to me to expect readers to assume everyone wants crit on every story they write.

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janegraddell
2013-02-25 11:44 pm UTC (link)

leaving detailed crit takes effort and talent

Urgh, I know. A lot of writers seem to think that they're the only writers around deserving this attention, that of course every reader will love nothing more than to sit down and spend half an hour sweating over the perfect comment for the each of the dozens of stories they might read in a few days. This gets up my nose as a reader *and* a writer.

I feel kind of strongly that my readers didn't sign up to be my editors. I feel like it's my responsibility to find people who enjoy betaing and volunteer for it, and to get that stuff done before I post. That way,the readers can kick back and (hopefully) enjoy the story without feeling that they have to be my unsolicited betas, too.

About FFR: Wasn't there also a rant a while back about some people going around kudos-bombing on AO3? I don't think it was connected to this, but as I recall there was a certain group that really hated kudos and decided that the appropriate thing to do would be to troll around AO3 and systematically leave kudos on *everything.* The idea, as I understood it, was to dilute the meaning of getting kudos so they'd become worthless. Or something.

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iczer6
2013-02-26 01:16 am UTC (link)

I feel kind of strongly that my readers didn't sign up to be my editors. I feel like it's my responsibility to find people who enjoy betaing and volunteer for it, and to get that stuff done before I post.

This. I mean I understand and respect wanting to improve but there's something almost lazy about people who demand readers also be editors.

That instead of putting the effort into finding someone willing to work with them to improve their work it's like they're expecting it to fall into their laps.

I'm sure this isn't always the case though.

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luthe
2013-02-27 08:16 am UTC (link)

I admit, I do volunteer to beta for people if I think they have a good story that could benefit from some work. But those are always people who admit they don't have betas and acknowledge the rough edges on their fics. It's a way of encouraging the up-and-coming writers who don't have fandom friends yet and so can't just go out and find a beta easily.

That said, I'm only going to put in that kind of effort if I think the story warrants it. Not every piece of porn posted to AO3 deserves detailed concrit. :P

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janegraddell
2013-02-27 09:08 pm UTC (link)

Whoops, sorry for the poor wording. This is very true, and I realize now that I made it sound like because *I* prefer to get a beta and do all that beforehand, that getting a beta is a Fanfic Law that everyone else has to follow. Sorry about that. I think writers should edit as much or as little as they damn well feel like; this is supposed to fun, after all. :) I was being annoyed at writers who seem to expect detailed beta services from everyone who is worthy enough to have been allowed the great privilege of reading their fanfic (aka the internet), and got a little carried away. Oops. :)

And yes, thanks for reminding me that there are readers who *do* love to concrit, and why we love you. :)

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ekaterinv
2013-02-26 02:30 am UTC (link)

I think a lot writers don't realize that leaving detailed crit takes effort and talent.

True. And this shows that these writers have never bothered to criticize anything in a detailed, well-thought out way. Which, how can you write if you can't criticize? It's like saying you can be a great cook without ever having bothered to make judgments on other people's cooking.

These same writers tend to pretend writing fanfic in their spare time is the HARDEST THING EVER OMG. I just don't know why they bother with any of it.

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	sandglass 2013-02-26 02:55 am UTC (link)
	Effort aside, I don't want to go into fanfic with criticism on my mind, unless a friend asks for it. I just want to enjoy something. (Reply to this)(Parent)

soc_puppet
2013-02-28 04:13 am UTC (link)

Hell, leaving detailed praise takes effort and talent. I flatter myself to think that I have a potential knack for writing professional-style reviews, but if I want to go to that sort of effort regularly, I'd rather start a rec blog. My writing style also lends itself better to going, "HEY EVERYONE, THIS FIC IS AWESOME AND HERE'S A DETAILED TAKEDOWN OF WHY! NOW GO READ IT! Also, gracious author, here is a link to my rec so you know not only what I think of it but also that I think everyone else ever should read it."

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adevyish
2013-02-25 11:24 am UTC (link)

This. I would love to leave a detailed review, but I often just end up writing something really really banal.

Also that one time I left a fandom after one of its main authors completely went off at me for leaving a comment about a missing punctuation mark. By completely I mean a long ass rant about how I'd hurt her co-author's feelings, that she'd been having a terrible day and how fucking DARE I, etc, basically making me feel terrible for even existing.

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