Entry tags:

comics, fandom: avengers, serious business

A Tale Of Two Portmanteaux
Apologies for lack of cut--I posted as is and went out. Cut now.

Prologue

(This write-up has references to sexism/misogyny and links+contains NSFW images.)

For starters, I’m going to have to agree with fail_fandomanon that some of this is semi-yawn-worthy -- it’s relatively contained and slow -- but there’s something amusing about the Srsz Bzns attitude that everyone puts on. I mean, look over to the Teen Wolf fandom, where you’ve got fans boycotting the show since Derek is apparently in a heterosexual relationship, and then you’ve got...tag wars. Or something. But the irony is delicious.

In the beginning, there were two tags: Frostiron (Loki/Tony Stark) and Froz3npizza (Loki/Tony/Pepper Potts; frozen [Loki] + pepperony [Pepper/Tony]). Froz3npizza was a new, young tag -- not very popular -- but recently people began starting to post things (fic, art, etc). The problem was, some of those posts were also posted under Frostiron. It wasn’t a lot of posts, maybe a handful or so, and all were properly tagged froz3npizza as well, but then...

Isahbellah posts:

now everyone
repeat after me
FROZ3NPIZZA IS NOT FROSTIRON
FROZ3NPIZZA IS NOT FROSTIRON
FROZ3NPIZZA IS NOT FROSTIRON
FROZ3NPIZZA IS NOT FROSTIRON

FROZ3NPIZZA IS NOT FROSTIRON

FROZ3NPIZZA IS NOT FROSTIRON
SO STOP TAGGING IT AS IF IT’S FROSTIRON.
you have your own tag, use it.

People chime in to disagree or agree (now deleted, but preserved here: “FrostIron is a two person ship, it’s meant to stay that way”). Many argue whether Froz3npizza is technically Frostiron or not, since they both have Loki/Tony in them. Chaperoned points toward tumblr savior.

Some highlights:

“Find better arguments, and act and speak in a courteous manner; dramatic references to ‘real life’ are the tools of a sheltered college freshman, and they are beneath you.” -Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope

“Why should we have to resort to Tumblr Savior just because someone keeps mistagging things? They should stop, we shouldn’t have to go out of our way to avoid it.” -Grinningflowers

“/We/ don’t need to grow up, people need to follow the rules, you don’t tag your hate and you don’t mistag things just because you feel like it or you want to try and get more notes. Doing so makes you an idiot.” -Grinningflowers

“HEAVEN FORBID A VAGINA BE INVOLVED.” -Strangersatthemall

“you can’t force everyone tag things as *you* would want, it looks like a fucking utopia, gosh, we live in the real world after all, there won’t be the one and only order.” -Rubberbandgirlme

“LIKE REALLY ARE WE TO THE POINT WHERE SOMEONE JUST ASKED HELLA WHAT SHE THOUGHT LIKE THIS IS FUCKING COURT TV AND NOW IT’S A DEBATE OVER WHO IS AND ISNT A MISOGYNIST. AND PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY VICTIMIZED BY PEPPER POTT’S VAGINA. just omg WHO EVEN CARES IF IT BELONGS IN THE TAG OR NOT” -Chaperoned

“Rubber, your arguments sound like those of an impudent child. The absence of perfection, or the possibility of it, is not justification for knowingly continuing to behave in a way that causes others discomfort.” -Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope

“As for your ship containing elements of the FrostIron ship…well, a chocolate chip and pecan cookie may have all the necessary ingredients for a chocolate chip cookie, but they are not the same thing, and only one can be eaten by a person with a nut allergy.” -Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope

“The Tags have always been compromised, just accept it.” -an anon

“I think you could settle it down if you talked about it. People respect your opinion in the fandom, so please.” -an anon to Goddamnhella.

“the REALLY terrible thing is that i’ve got a LOT of the people making a fuss over it blocked and have had them block for such a long time i forgot about them. them coming back now is just a reminder of why i blocked them in the first place.” -dariius

“Personally? I admire Pepper. I happen to think she’s a much stronger character when not in a romantic relationship with Tony, so I ship her casually with him, not long-term. My Pepper ships are Pepper/Jarvis...” -Mizstorge

“it’s really strange to argue whether froz3npizza is ic or not when frostiron already involves a crazy amount of suspension of disbelief tbh” -Obscyr

“That really sums up my disinclination to include Pepper in Frostiron. Because, unlike the addition of Thor, or Steve, or Bruce Banner, Pepper is vulnerable.” -Mizstorge

“FrostIron is probably one of the smallest ships in one of the fastest shrinking fandoms on tumblr.” -Grinningflowers

“stop it, it's gross, Loki wouldn’t touch that with someone else’s dick.”-LaLopez1981’s tags (post now deleted)

So this wank is essentially maybe ten people or so shooting each other down. Somehow this tiff ends up involving the entire Frostiron fandom on Tumblr.

Obviously, when you don’t like unrelated spam in your tag, you spam complaints about those unrelated things...in that tag.

Where it starts getting good

An anon goes to Goddamnhella, BNF author of Off the Record, and asks her for her opinion. She declines to participate in the shitstorm wank. The Tonyloki mod also gets the microphone extended to her and she replies: “omg why are you asking me tumblr and opinions don’t go together.”

A troll joins the fray, too. They post literal frozen pizzas under the Frostiron tag, their blog subheader saying ‘what you get for being assholes.’ (I have been told that this was in fact a Loki/Tony shipper, but whether to give the Froz3npizza shippers a bad rep or support them...who knows? It’s a mystery~)

Chaperoned makes buttons.

There are feeble attempts at making peace. Strangersatthemall, a Froz3npizza shipper, cordially welcomes any newcomers -- “I swear what happened last night is not normal at all, and it will NEVER happen again. E V E R” but unfortunately for her, fandom is not going to let this one go. There’s also the obligatory 'why don't we just get along?'

Accusations of misogyny additionally get thrown around. Obscyr points out that Loki/Thor/Tony hasn’t caused wank like Loki/Tony/Pepper has, but this backfires some stuff cut here because something was maybe underage?

For example, Defenestration-and-more, who is a bit of a BNF as author of the Tricks of the Trade fic series, says:

I get the sinking feeling this is touching on something that plagues a lot of slash-shippers in all fandoms everywhere, and that’s an amplified aggressive response with a basis in nothing more than “Ew! There’s a vagina!" Though, the fact this is Frostiron and Loki is involved complicates it a bit further, so this isn’t quite that juvenile, but I think some of it can trace roots back to fear-of-girl-cooties.

Her post kickstarts a kerfuffle between Chaperoned and Grinningflowers.

Chaperoned again advocates for blocking or tumblr savior as the situation, since the issue of what belongs in the tag or not isn’t something easily agreed upon.

Grinningflowers, however, thinks that Froz3npizza shouldn’t be in Frostiron tag, period, and that:

FrostIron is probably one of the smallest ships in one of the fastest shrinking fandoms on tumblr. We simply wanted to actually see what was actually for it.

Chaperoned dishes out some tl;dr statistics. In summation: the tag is actually pretty active at times (she is the mod of the Ssfrostiron community); Loki/Tony is fandom’s sixth most popular pairing or perhaps even higher; the Frostiron Bang is currently going on and people are busy; Loki/Tony has many popular fics (ie. Off the Record, Bend Around the Wind, Desiderata). Also, there is no way MCU is a shrinking fandom. And on.

Grinningflowers says:

Other threesomes have tags and that is all we were asking for

Chaperoned shoots that down, too, linking to the StarkSpangledBanner tag. Although she says this is no big deal, she doesn't even ship Loki/Tony/Pepper, she reblogs about a dozen rebuttals packed with fandom ‘research.’

There’s more back and forth, until Chaperoned finally gives up and pulls out an image macro. Grinningflowers, for some reason, thinks that Chaperoned should promote Froz3npizza if she’s so passionate about it, anyway. Chaperoned refuses, and the argument’s finished.

More squabbling: Chaperoned gets asked why Ssfrostiron posts Froz3npizza. And she gets asked again, which receives a sarcastic reply (NSFW):

But here’s some helpful ideas for if you don’t want to see threesomes here:
Change the offending party’s hair color! Now it’s potentially a threesome between Lady!Loki, Loki, and Tony.

Put it in photoshop and paste Loki’s face over the offending party.

Tape a piece of paper over the offending party.

Scroll past.

Tumblr savior! There’s info here and here.

Hope that helps!

The Frost-iron tumblr also gets flack for a Loki/Thor related post, but for the most part, the wank dies down. Apologies are made.

Now, this should be over now, right?

Nope.

Enter Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope

Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope makes a long post starting with: “i kind of really really don’t like froz3npizza and a lot of its shippers.” She doesn’t like the accusations of sexism, and tells Froz3npizza shippers that they’ve committed a faux pas, calling them ‘childish, inconsiderate dickbags.’

Inquilines interupts to rebut her points, in the tl;dr style that seems to be popular with these shippers.

This is all a matter of opinion, where there is NO REAL ANSWER. Everyone can go back and forth about it, but at the end of the day, you can’t stop people from posting and tagging what they like. This is true for all tags — I can hit up the Johnlock tag right now, and find things that categorized as on-topic (like fics, art, prompts) but there’s plenty of off-topic things (like vaguely fandom-related selfies, ~hilarious vaguely fandom-related personal stories).

She echoes Chaperoned -- “All you can do is block or Tumblr savior, easy” -- and also jumps on those who liked Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope’s post.

In fact, a load of people who liked your post — who are anti-froz3npizza — are a bunch of hypocrites. They put PLENTY of crap in the tag themselves. frostironistheperfectotp is on a lot of people’s tumblr savior or blocked users. They have been asked to post less frequently, or at least put things behind a cut. They do neither of these things. lalalopez1981 constantly posts about their progress on their frostiron fics. Isahbellah has stirred up wank in the past, and has participated in this froz3npizza debacle in a passive-aggressive manner (ie. threatening to flounce). She also posts quite frequently in the frostiron tag.

Misogyny is brought up again, comparing the Loki/Tony fandom’s reaction to Thunderfrostiron v.s. Froz3npizza, and also linking to this post that first says: “I don’t have fear-of-girl-cooties” but goes on to explain, “That really sums up my disinclination to include Pepper in Frostiron. Because, unlike the addition of Thor, or Steve, or Bruce Banner, Pepper is vulnerable.”

In conclusion, Inquilines accuses with mighty anger and dramatic flair:

The people who look like inconsiderate dickbags in this situation are many of the frostiron fans. You have that person who wants a BNF to JOIN THE FIGHT111!! You have hysterical, frantic generalizations that frostiron (and Avengers fans) in general are a dying breed and the froz3npizza people are Ruining Fandom Forever, but they’re easily debunked.

You have you, who won’t let this wank die— just let it go, tumblr savior, and block.

Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope still isn’t done yet. An anon tells her: “You know I'm having a damn good laugh over all this. Because it's obvious that if Pepper weren't female, especially the canon girlfriend, no one would try to wank or extend this wank. Oh Sweetie, it's so cute that you think you actually have a valid point, when everyone else has pointed out how hypocritical your statement is. You'll probably delete this anyway but at least I can comfort myself that everyone knows just how wrong you are...”

Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope responds Very Seriously. She again takes offense at misogyny accusations, as well as saying that she has nothing against the ship, but it’s the shippers who are bothering her.

Some choice quotes:

It’s just like the Cold War! Which is like Godwin’s Law, only later in time. “You are, essentially, pulling a Joseph McCarthy, only instead of screaming “COMMUNIST!!!" you’re screaming “SEXIST!!!"”

You’re just like non-voters! “I CANNOT EXPLAIN TO YOU, WERE WE FACE-TO-FACE WITH ALL OUR LIVES AHEAD PURELY FOR THE PURPOSE OF MY EXPLANATION, HOW DANGEROUS AND DAMAGING THAT MENTALITY IS. That is the mentality that causes people to not vote, to settle for ‘bad’ when they could have had ‘okay’, and to be complacent when they could be roused.”

~GREY-FACE MASK OF ANONYMITY OMG. “Your message was sloppily arranged, pitiful in its attempts at sounding superior or flippant, and has a bitter sort of cowardice to it. You will gain much more respect for being open and honest than you will for puffing up your chest while wearing a grey-face mask.”

Eh, your grammar is spot-on though. “However, the grammar was good. I appreciate that you took the time, whether it was a little or a lot, to write out your message well, grammatically.”

Essentially, a gold mine of pretentiousness + someone is obviously reaching for her thesaurus. (These IRL comparisons are not new, by the way. I recall her likening a Bond/Q v.s. Bond/Silva ship war to bullying and homophobia.)

She gets an another anon ask (“You are, essentially, pulling a Joseph McCarthy, only instead of screaming “COMMUNIST!!!" you’re screaming “UNFAIR!!!!" Christ, grow up”), and she responds indignantly: “Your entire repertoire, up to this point, has been nothing but insults and vague claims of authority backed up by “everyone/body", and it is only becoming more difficult to respond with what I consider to be appropriate respect and courtesy.”

She has no idea why her Cold War reference is lol-worthy: “To be clear, the Joseph McCarthy I am referring to is the one connected to the Red Scare and McCarthyism. If that was subject of confusion, then I hope the matter can be resolved and laughed over. If that is what caused you to tell me to “grow up", then I am afraid I simply do not understand the connection.”

Frostiron fandom, which had previously been wanking furiously at each other, bands together in their collective annoyance of Toomanyducttapetoomanyrope. Because it’s honestly been days, and this wank seems never-ending.

From here:

Stop posting your fucking rants about frozenpizza to the tag. YOU’RE MORE ANNOYING THAN THE PEOPLE WHO POSTED FROZENPIZZA IN THE FIRST PLACE EVER WERE AND WHO THE FUCK EVEN CARES ABOUT AN ARGUMENT BETWEEN 10 PEOPLE.
NO
ONE
CARES

And here:

Stop tagging your rants about Froz3nPizza (and the consecutive messages) in the #Frostiron tag. What you’re doing now is worse than a few harmless OT3 posts could have ever possibly been. You are dragging out an issue that has already been blown horrendously out of proportion.

Stop.

Chaperoned and Grinningflowers, previously at each other’s throats, like both of these posts.

“#IT’S TOOMUCHDUCTTAPETOOMANYROPE AGAINST THE WORLD,” Inquilines says in her tags.

For the big cherry on top, please realize that Toomuchducttapetoomanyrope doesn't frequent the Frostiron tag very often.

Goddamnhella is asked again for her input, O Great BNF On High, and she says:

That’s my official statement.
On a brief personal note: I’m not the fandom mother, here to settle down the rowdy kids mucking up in the corner. Soapbox speeches generally don’t help shit no matter who gives them.

Obviously the best way to resolve this wank, of course, is to throw in an irritating Toomuchducttapetoomanyrope, and watch everybody get sick of the argument and forget why they were so mad at each other in the first place.

It’s like what Oncefuturekimli said, “That is not the frostiron fandom reaction. That is the haughty self-entitled blogger reaction.” And Toomuchducttapetoomanyrope is the haughtiest one of them all.

This wank has been discussed on fail_fandomanon here, here, and here; on avengersanon here (with bonus Lady Loki wank!); and wank_report here.