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Moira Katson ([info]demonbean) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2013-09-05 22:17:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:author entitlement, awards, books/authors, person: john ringo, person: john scalzi

A Wank of Two Authors
A wank that is somewhat pan-fandom - Science Fiction in general!

First piece of background: John Scalzi is an author and, at present, he was until recently (thanks, sgaana!) the president of the SFWA. In the past few months, he has been a very vocal supporter of anti-harassment policies at SFF conventions, and in general has been a supporter of having women and minorities represented in SFF. This annoys some people. (Warning: this wank, while it has not in itself veered into unfunny territory, is between two authors - and to some extent their fanbases - who stand on very different sides of the "what (if anything) should be done to ensure equality for people of different genders/sexual orientations/races/creeds." While going over facebook and twitter to research this particular kerfluffle, I encountered some of that in other posts. None of it is linked here, but it is in this general section of the blaggertubes.)

As a second piece of background, the Hugo Awards celebrate the best of Science Fiction, and are widely considered one of the most prestigious awards an SFF author can win. While highly prestigious, however, the awards are not immune from the general principle of award-giving, which is that first someone wins, and then someone else bitches about it.

All caught up? Good.

On Sunday, the winners of the 2013 Hugo Awards were announced. John Scalzi won the award for best novel with Redshirts, a comedic novel about the unusually high mortality rates of starship employees wearing crimson attire. As usual, the win touched off some debate around the quality of the various nominees. Some people enjoyed Redshirts, others did not like it so well. Fairly standard. The Guardian has covered some of the differing points of view here, most of which are centered around the merits of the books and the voting system.

John Ringo, on the other hand, posted the following:

If anyone has been wondering why Scalzi has been picking the rather stupid fights he's been picking lately:

[link to Hugo Awards announcement]


Scalzi, either directly in response to Ringo, in response to some other criticism, or just as a general response to the world in general, posts on his blog about the award, and includes the following:

* Likewise, as is also tradition whenever a new winner of a Best Novel Hugo is announced, there are people who are heralding Redshirts as evidence that the Hugo voting process is corrupt/confused/irrelevant/a sign of the impending apocalypse. I don’t take this personally because a) I am well aware that not everyone is going to like everything I write, and that this goes double for Redshirts, which seems to have the greatest range of responses to it of any book I’ve written, b) someone would complain no matter what and who won, because the Internet is vasty and noisy, and for some people, something they don’t like winning an award is clearly evidence of systematic problems and/or conspiracy, rather than simply a popular vote of a particular group of voters not reflecting their own personal preferences.

My response to this is, as always: That’s fine. And in a larger sense, a vote no one complains about correlates very highly with a vote no one cares about. I’m happy to see people care about the Hugos, even if it’s to be annoyed with my book as a winner. With that said, the fact is this year I won the award, now it’s mine, and I’m not giving it back. So they’ll just have to deal.

(Now, there are people who are angry I won because they don’t like me personally. To them I say: Ha! Ha! Ha! Sucks to be you, dude.)

This touches off a debate on twitter, including (but certainly not limited to) the following. Feel free to add to these highlights, as my twitter-fu is by no means expert. (Which is why a majority come from Scalzi himself.) Scalzi is accused of pandering, Ringo is accused of pandering, Chris Kluwe makes an appearance.

Just because John Ringo is being a total ass to me doesn't mean you might not like his books. Some to try for free: [link to free books]

@Scalzi: Reading your post that was referenced, never going to buy any of YOUR books again. You're a deluded hypocritical racist little shit.

From Scalzi: "Highlight of the day so far: Dude with Hitler Emoji Twitter icon telling me I was racist and he would never read my books. I thought: Good"

Also from Scalzi: Seriously, though. Poor spelling does not make you wrong, but consistently poor spelling does undermine rhetorical credibility. Spellcheck!

The problem is, the Internet makes it seem like you SHOULD read the comments. But then you do, and you say, "YEAH, I forgot. Dammit."

HTML has totally failed me, so here are a few good links for twitter: Scalzi, Chris Kluwe and, courtesy of </b></a>[info]duraniedrama, John Ringo's page. (There's some potential for unfunny there.) You can find more tweets under the hashtag #womendestroySF. (Lightspeed has announced a "Women Destroying SF" special edition.)

The wank builds up, with Ringo declaring that his wife is hotter and his hair is better than Scalzi's, until at some point in this mess, Ringo posts to his facebook page again.

Scalzi was pissing me off even before getting a Hugo for a novel so remarkably unremarkable it would barely have made it to paperback in the 1970s. Nothing against it, it's a fun, simple, mindless, read from all I've gathered. But it's not exactly Stranger in a Strange Land or Nightfall.

[....]

Which is where we start to see the issues with Scalzi suddenly not so much 'coming out of the closet' but making a splash on a variety of hot-button issues that really don't sit well with his RETAIL market. The people who actually BUY the books over the counter as opposed to market, sell and even buy them for distribution. The more books you can get a bookstore to buy, the more likely you are to sell them. So being the poster child for your commercial people is a good thing.

Orson Scott Card is brought up in the comments, but less than you might suspect.

John Ringo's politics get further attention when Scalzi links us to a review of one of Ringo's books. The review can simply be referred to as OH JOHN RINGO NO, which proceeds to become a catchphrase in the ensuing twitter comments.

This wank, it must be said, is far from over, as no one has yet flounced. Twitter continues to explode, and Scalzi continues to post to twitter, and all in all, the wank has continued merrily on for the span of a few days. Enjoy!

EDIT THE FIRST: Courtesy of tunxeh (thanks!), we have Scalzi's latest blog post. It is, as noted, worth it even if all you look at is his U MAD BRO? macro. Since I can't seem to embed, here: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/09/06/some-final-hugo-related-thoughts/



(Post a new comment)


[info]sorchar
2013-09-06 05:25 am UTC (link)
I approved this, but please fix your broken HTML. Thanks!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]demonbean
2013-09-06 05:31 am UTC (link)
Wow, yeah - that's edited, and the links are being re-added. Sorry!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2013-09-06 05:41 am UTC

[info]cmdr_zoom
2013-09-06 05:50 am UTC (link)
ah, the infamous/classic "OH JOHN RINGO NO" series and review thereof. Is one allowed to call someone else's novel "fun, simple, mindless read" if one has, by one's own admission, written not one but several completely self-indulgent idfics? Which turn out to be immensely popular among others who share the same shallow fantasies (see also Twilight et al)?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]demonbean
2013-09-06 05:53 am UTC (link)
One of my favorite parts is that Ringo admits he hasn't actually READ "Redshirts."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]taterbird, 2013-09-06 10:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-06 06:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]taterbird, 2013-09-06 08:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-06 10:59 pm UTC

[info]tunxeh
2013-09-06 08:57 am UTC (link)
Speaking of both Twilight and "OH JOHN RINGO NO": a blast from the past that found in checking whether we'd had any wanks involving Ringo before.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]phosfate
2013-09-06 06:10 am UTC (link)
I fucking hated Redshirts, but John Ringo really, really doesn't ever get to call anyone else's work "mindless."

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]paladin
2013-09-06 10:58 am UTC (link)
Thank you for so neatly summarizing my thoughts about this wank.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]anthologia
2013-09-08 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Out of curiosity, why did you hate it?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-09-08 08:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]franzen, 2013-09-09 10:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-09-09 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]starlady42, 2013-09-11 07:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anthologia, 2013-09-10 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-09-10 01:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anthologia, 2013-09-10 01:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]braidedmane, 2013-11-04 07:22 pm UTC

[info]sgaana
2013-09-06 06:20 am UTC (link)
Just a note: John Scalzi is not, at present, the president of the SWFA. He stopped being president on June 30th. The current president is Stephen Gould.

Any wank that revives OH JOHN RINGO NO is worthwhile. That's a horrifyingly entertaining read. I'm constantly startled when I see that John Ringo's name on actual SF books and stuff; it's hard to remember that he writes anything BUT the series from that review.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2013-09-06 06:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]demonbean, 2013-09-07 12:44 am UTC
(no subject) - scifantasy, 2013-09-06 07:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]edana_ni_emer, 2013-09-06 11:07 am UTC
(no subject) - scifantasy, 2013-09-06 06:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]edana_ni_emer, 2013-09-06 10:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - scifantasy, 2013-09-06 10:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-07 12:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2013-09-07 05:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2013-09-07 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]demonbean, 2013-09-07 08:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mad_teacup, 2013-09-11 04:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]edana_ni_emer, 2013-09-11 12:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cinnamonical, 2013-09-06 02:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2013-09-07 02:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2013-09-07 01:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]monty, 2013-09-09 02:04 am UTC

[info]brennalarose
2013-09-06 07:18 am UTC (link)
Ah, the old "wimmins can't get the MASSIVELY BUTCH GENRE that is SCIFI" wheeze. That one's so old, I think it's having Jubilees instead of Birthdays.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-06 07:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2013-09-06 08:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]taterbird, 2013-09-06 10:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2013-09-06 10:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bobgenghiskhan, 2013-09-06 02:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eevee, 2013-09-06 03:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bobgenghiskhan, 2013-09-07 05:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-09-06 06:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2013-09-06 07:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2013-09-06 08:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]full_metal_ox, 2013-09-06 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2013-09-07 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]veleda_k, 2013-09-07 10:32 pm UTC
That my friend... - [info]taktuk, 2013-09-11 02:57 pm UTC
Re: That my friend... - [info]veleda_k, 2013-09-11 10:57 pm UTC
Re: That my friend... - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-12 04:20 pm UTC
Re: That my friend... - [info]arjumand, 2013-09-14 09:20 am UTC
Re: That my friend... - [info]taktuk, 2013-09-16 03:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2013-10-26 09:07 am UTC

[info]ekaterinv
2013-09-06 07:18 am UTC (link)
it's not exactly Stranger in a Strange Land

This is supposed to be a bad thing?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2013-09-06 07:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]taterbird, 2013-09-06 10:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cygnia, 2013-09-06 03:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kosaginolegion, 2013-09-06 04:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-06 06:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2013-09-07 06:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2013-09-06 06:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-06 06:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kita0610, 2013-09-06 09:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2013-09-09 01:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-10 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]veleda_k, 2013-09-11 03:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kumquat_of_doom, 2013-09-11 08:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brennalarose, 2013-09-06 10:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]quartz, 2013-09-07 03:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lastscorpion, 2013-09-07 03:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-07 03:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]full_metal_ox, 2013-09-06 11:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]demonbean, 2013-09-07 01:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-09-07 02:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenygal, 2013-09-07 04:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2013-09-07 04:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2013-09-07 09:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-09-07 09:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2013-09-10 11:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2013-09-10 05:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dragoness_e, 2013-11-12 04:46 am UTC

[info]duraniedrama
2013-09-06 03:06 pm UTC (link)
John Ringo has a Twitter account now.

That is all.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-09-06 06:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-06 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]white_tean, 2013-09-07 08:41 pm UTC

[info]kosaginolegion
2013-09-06 04:10 pm UTC (link)
You know, while I enjoy the "Old Man's War" series, I'm beginning to think that Scalzi's greatest service to me as a reader is his way of attracting the hate and loathing of writers whom I will never ever want to read.

In other words, yet another for the "Boy am I glad I never bothered to crack open this guy's books."

(Reply to this)


[info]rosehiptea
2013-09-06 06:34 pm UTC (link)
I don't want to highlight any possible unfunny here, but what is that "racism" bit all about? It seems to be referencing his post about his Hugo win, but I read the whole thing without seeing anything that seemed to refer to race in any way?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]duraniedrama, 2013-09-06 07:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-06 11:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_sun_is_up, 2013-09-12 07:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2013-09-07 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-07 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2013-09-07 11:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-08 12:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]notjo, 2013-09-11 04:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-11 05:35 pm UTC

[info]tunxeh
2013-09-06 07:21 pm UTC (link)
Scalzi's latest blog on the issue. Worth checking out for the "U MAD, BRO?" image macro alone.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]seca, 2013-09-06 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2013-09-06 11:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]honorh, 2013-09-08 04:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]demonbean, 2013-09-07 02:58 am UTC

[info]franzen
2013-09-07 12:32 am UTC (link)
Whenever Scalzi comes up in a wank, I feel an urge to buy one of his books.

Also, the excerpted bit from Ringo made my eyes cross. Then I read the whole piece. I need to be drunk immediately.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]demonbean, 2013-09-07 02:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]come_love_sleep, 2013-09-07 04:25 am UTC

[info]freezer
2013-09-07 03:37 am UTC (link)
John Scalzi... John Ringo... Chris Kluwe. One of these things is not like the others.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sgaana, 2013-09-07 04:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]demonbean, 2013-09-07 05:25 am UTC

[info]thoms
2013-09-07 03:37 am UTC (link)
This is my first time seeing the OH JOHN RINGO NO thing and I think my eyes are stuck permanently wide open.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2013-09-07 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2013-09-07 04:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eldritch, 2013-09-12 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmdr_zoom, 2013-09-08 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-08 09:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bobgenghiskhan, 2013-09-08 06:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2013-09-09 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tinmiss, 2013-09-11 09:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]franzen, 2013-09-09 07:25 am UTC

[info]tez
2013-09-09 04:06 am UTC (link)
Wank explosion aside -- Chris Kluwe's Twitter is my new favorite thing ever.

(Reply to this)


[info]franzen
2013-09-09 07:30 am UTC (link)
Orson Scott Card is brought up in the comments, but less than you might suspect.

I keep laughing at this line. Thank you for this wank.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]demonbean, 2013-09-09 01:23 pm UTC

[info]esclaramonde
2013-09-09 05:56 pm UTC (link)
I personally love his insistence that the only reason women have any rights at all is because of chivalry, Before the present there were barely any societies where women had the least amount of say in what happened to them, and when they did, it was just because of chivalry. Yep. What a master of history!

Also, in the 1950s people turned a blind eye to spousal abuse and date rape, but it's okay because there was a cultural understanding that it was wrong.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]talkingtoaster, 2013-09-09 06:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-09 07:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2013-09-09 11:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esclaramonde, 2013-09-10 12:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-10 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_sun_is_up, 2013-09-12 07:05 am UTC
tw: rape, rape psychology - [info]franzen, 2013-09-09 10:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cinnamonical, 2013-09-09 10:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]franzen, 2013-09-10 02:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ekaterinv, 2013-09-10 02:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cinnamonical, 2013-09-10 03:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2013-09-10 04:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sadisticferret, 2013-09-11 03:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cyndra_falin, 2013-09-10 04:27 am UTC
oh...my...god...
[info]ebbrowning
2013-09-10 09:55 pm UTC (link)
I have been watching this mess on my TL but didn't know the John Ringo history.

I saw John Ringo, assumed Beatles slashfic and didn't pay much attention.

Jeeeeeesuusssssss.

I...i....I....I...
have no words.

He's the Bathtub Girl of SF.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: oh...my...god... - [info]duraniedrama, 2013-09-11 06:00 pm UTC

[info]tinmiss
2013-09-11 09:15 am UTC (link)
before ever finding "oh john ringo no" i made the mistake of reading a bunch of his books because my dad got them from the library and i ran out, and then became determined to find a single book w/o the topic that review covered. i failed horribly.

i'm wary of any of his opinions in general at this point.

(Reply to this)


[info]the_sun_is_up
2013-09-12 07:00 am UTC (link)
OH John Ringo YES! I'm so happy to see that old gem revived.

making a splash on a variety of hot-button issues that really don't sit well with his RETAIL market. The people who actually BUY the books over the counter as opposed to market, sell and even buy them for distribution.

I'd assume that those walk-in retail book-buyers don't keep tabs on what specific authors are saying on the internet. Which is good news for you, John Ringo!

Orson Scott Card is brought up in the comments, but less than you might suspect.

*snerk*

Looking at the #womendestroysf tag:

Guys, what the hell! Women destroying Science Fiction? Are we going to let that stand, when MEN can destroy SF way better?!

This hashtag is BRILLIANT.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]franzen, 2013-09-13 01:45 am UTC

[info]mcity
2013-09-23 07:14 pm UTC (link)
Oh, look, a wank involving two authors I both disagree with!

Incidentally, Ringo said that he personally hates those books, and endorsed merchandizing of the catchphrase for charity.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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