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	argylespy 2014-07-13 04:47 am UTC (link)
	There's been some updating wrt the 18+ panels, pointing out that, when the original charge went out that they weren't carding for the BDSM panel, the panel hadn't actually started yet. Which is backed up by the panel's info page which says that it started 11:00 PM Central Time, which means it started about forty-five minutes ago. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	argylespy 2014-07-13 04:48 am UTC (link)
	Bah, all my time away from LJ-clones and I've forgotten how to html. Link to the panel info: http://dashcon2014b.sched.org/event/682a73e6df2cc06e332bbe9f18c2bef8#.U8IN__ldW-0 (Reply to this)(Parent)

argylespy
2014-07-13 05:01 am UTC (link)

There's also apparently been some people reporting that they called the hotel asking about the $17k bill and not finding anyone who knows what they're talking about, but I can't find any of those posts myself.

I have seen a couple of posts mentioning that the hotel had never hosted a fan convention before and using that as an excuse as to why there was such a mix-up with the money -- this seems to be the text going around the most that mentions it, specifically this part:

Half an hour later, con security started telling everyone to go to the ballroom, coming in to panel rooms and getting everyone together.
When we got there, the situation was fully explained. The hotel had never seen a fan convention before, and they were freaking out over the costumed guests and the general hubub. They were demanding money they would have received later on during the weekend, namely the money the second and largest day of the con would have brought anyway.

So some people are extrapolating from that that the hotel just didn't ~*understand*~ how conventions were run and they were just ~*inexperienced*~ the poor tender fresh-faced babes, it's all their fault, but don't hate they too much, it's just their first time.

Except that, especially with it being a Marriott branch and all, even if it were a brand new hotel, they should have protocols in place from corporate on how to handle conventions since it's something that hotel chains deal with all the time. And "upper management" -- that the DashCon people claim are the ones this was coming from, not the poor housekeeping workers that have to deal with cleaning bodypaint off of the beds and bathrooms -- would have been hired from a pool of people with experience in the hotel business, if not just straight transferred in from another Marriott.

So "inexperience" is really a moot point here, at least as far as the hotel's concerned.

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seanchaigirl
2014-07-13 06:13 am UTC (link)

Yeah, that is some bullshit right there.

I used to do big events, and without fail, I got a schedule of fees to be paid leading up to and throughout the event. Every single hotel I ever worked with did this - the dates and percentages are in the contract. No chain hotel is so new to the hotel conference business that they don't have this down pat.

I would bet that part of what happened here is that the con didn't meet the guarantee for hotel rooms. That would explain a bigger payment than they would have expected being due mid-event, and also people being threatened with getting kicked out of their hotel rooms. They probably expected those rooms to be comped and when the guarantee wasn't met, they got fewer (or no) comps and organizers and speakers had to pay. Of course, when attendance didn't meet expectations, they should have known this was going to happen so it doesn't excuse their mismanagement.

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argylespy
2014-07-13 06:34 am UTC (link)

Seriously, I can't imagine that the booking/payment policies are really that different from an industry convention or a business conference or a wedding -- which there was at least one person pointing out that there were two being held at the hotel at the same time DashCon started. So why this whole thing would get so out of sorts just because people were showing up in silly costumes is beyond me.

Your explanation makes a lot more sense, though, especially since even a lot of the con's supporters have been pretty quick to point out that DashCon's actual attendance fell really far short of their projected attendance.

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seanchaigirl
2014-07-13 03:46 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, exactly. For the hotel, this is an event like any other. I sure hope the organizers aren't putting it about that they're being discriminated against for being fandom nerds or whatever. If so, they are underestimating the requests and strangeness that goes on at other conventions.

I've been in hotels where conventions of religious people (the kind that want to bless you in the elevator and sing A LOT) are happening, and hotel staff was polite and professional - same with the convention of bikers that was taking place at a hotel I stayed at in DC. I'm friendly with the staff at the convention center and the hotel that hosts Anime Boston and they just get the job done. If this hotel comes down on DashCon, it's not because the staff are a bunch of meanies or *normals* who are prejudiced against people in funny costumes. It's because this is a business transaction for the hotel and they expect con organizers to treat it as such.

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argylespy
2014-07-13 03:57 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, from what I can tell, it seems like the line they used when they initially wrangled everyone into the room to ask for the cash was that the hotel hadn't been expecting so many people being dressed so strangely and panicked and asked for the $20,000 up front. But then in their "explanation" post they say that they'd owed the money all along but thought they were on a weekend-long payment plan and the hotel changed that on them without warning and then go on to claim that the hotel's been nothing but understanding and friendly and are looking forward to having the con back next year.

So ... even if there isn't something shady going on, these people clearly have no idea what they're doing wrt cons, money management, or professionalism and I wouldn't trust them with a single cent of my money.

On a lighter note, I was just at Anime Boston this year for the first time and it was one of the best con experiences I've had!

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	annepackrat 2014-07-14 04:02 am UTC (link)
	Reading the entries by the girl who volunteered as a committee head apparently this whole thing was a clusterfuck from the word go. Getting your funding from a group of random and underage fandom volunteer committees? How the hell did they think that would go? And why did they not ask another con's staff for advice? (Reply to this)(Parent)

argylespy
2014-07-13 04:06 pm UTC (link)

Found this comment on the FFA thread with further speculation about why the sudden demand for the $20,000 that seems feasible enough as well, especially considering their constant harping about "upper management":

And now that I am reading more closely:
We worked out a plan with the hotel to give them money slowly for the entire course of the weekend, which was more than 100% feasible for us. However, 12 hours later

Why did they work out a payment plan only 12 hours before the whole thing went down? Wouldn't that basically be the day of the con, or the day before? So what happened is they signed a contract that said the money was due on the 11th. On the 11th, they asked the hotel employees if they could make successive payments over the course of the weekend because they did not have the money yet? Hotel staff agreed to this but apparently without approval of their management, who insisted the money be paid on the 11th?

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solelyfictional
2014-07-14 08:52 pm UTC (link)

This was my instinct - that this was money they were already meant to have paid. Possibly they hoped the number of on the day sales would be enough to make up the difference (assuming the other 3500 congoers they were hoping for would turn up), but the hotel looked at the current level of attendees and decided they couldn't risk waiting even another day in case the organisers stiffed them.

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mrbimble
2014-07-15 02:26 am UTC (link)

yeah, I call bullshit on the "Marriott didn't know what to expect and freaked out". I go to Dragon*Con every year - 50,000 fans on Saturday! Cosplay *heaven*! - and the Marriott in Atlanta is one of our 5 (!) host hotels.

The staff has never been anything but wonderful to us, costumed or not. (My GF and I make a point of coming by the check-in station later, in full regalia, to say hi to the girl that checked us in)

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	sparkysrevenge 2014-07-16 09:17 pm UTC (link)
	The Marriott Marquis also handles Momocon in May, too. (Well, until next year.) They're well-versed in the Weird Con People. And across the city, a different Marriott held Shatterdome and 221B Con. The actual brand seems very equipped for cons. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	quantumreality 2014-07-13 01:59 pm UTC (link)
	And these things never start on time, anyway. Fact of life at a convention, scientific or anime, in my experience. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

argylespy
2014-07-13 03:01 pm UTC (link)

I was going to say that most of the panels I've attended (not many since I spend most of my time working in the dealer's room) have started relatively on-time.

But then I remembered that most of the cons I go to with the booth I work for are fairly high-profile have been running for ages and are actually organized.

Except for AnimeNext. Relatively high-profile in the area, running for years, but almost every time I've attended/tried to attend a panel there it's been some level of clusterfuck.

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	quantumreality 2014-07-13 03:11 pm UTC (link)
	At AX 2014 a couple of the panels I attended started late because the previous ones ran over. Like I said, I'm used to it. Science conferences are especially bad for this because lowering the hammer is something chairpeople are reluctant to do in the first place. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

argylespy
2014-07-13 03:29 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, that was what happened the last time I tried to attend a panel at ANext; or well, sorry, it wasn't supposed to be a panel, it was just supposed to be an autograph session with Vic Mignogna (I know, but I'd promised a friend I'd get them his autograph). But con staff didn't cut off the line for the voice actor signing autographs in that room just before this one was supposed to start, so we waited probably a little over half an hour until they told us that they were going to reschedule Vic's Q&A to now to give the other line time to dissipate and anyone who wanted into Vic's autograph session would have to sit through the Q&A and tough shit to anyone who wanted to go to the Q&A but hadn't lined up for the autograph session, or anyone who just wanted an autograph and didn't want to sit through the Q&A I guess?

Like me. There was literally nothing new or interesting asked or said, you can take a look at some of the videos of his Q&A's at any given con and they all go exactly the same. But anyway, we were filed out onto the lawn afterwards and told we'd be led inside for the autograph session soon (because I guess the other VA's line hadn't quite finished up yet?). After about the half-hour mark con staff disappeared entirely, and probably a little over the hour mark everyone was still waiting outside but I had to leave because I'd had dinner plans. I think about twenty minutes later I got a text from a friend still in line that they were finally being let in.

And this is why I don't go to any con-organized events during ANext anymore.

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	annepackrat 2014-07-14 04:04 am UTC (link)
	Vic has a particularly vocal and devoted fandom. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	quantumreality 2014-07-13 03:13 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, and the AMV and Masquerades both didn't start on time either for whatever reason. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

annepackrat
2014-07-14 04:07 am UTC (link)

Masquerades can not start on time for various reasons. Trying to wrangle a hundred people in big costumes, dealing with temperamental equipment or even just getting the audience in place all give numerous chances for delays. Hell, I was working one costume contest that had to be postponed because a particular important guest decided he needed the main hall it was in for fifteen minutes to record an interview and take pictures.

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