Oh me. Oh my. I've been accused of writing a Mary-Sue.

Someone has seen fit to email me in great detail to explain WHY my character is so damned awful.

She sure spent a lot of time on it as well...

Still, I will say this. It's one of the politest accusations of being a hypocrite I've come across.

Hiya, Oo
I don't know how to leave reviews on aff.net or if it's even possible to leave reviews there. I'm not that familiar with it. I don't know if you've ever received an e-mail like this before, but I can't help but point this out myself.
I've spent the evening reading your story, "The Corruption and Degradation of Mary Sue." While I did find the story hilarious and very fun to read, I couldn't help but notice something....
Kalina is a Mary Sue.
Normally, a well written Mary Sue wouldn't bother me, and I must admit, Kallina is one of the better ones. However, she also annoyed me because of the story's title. You made two characters... Celebelen, who is the cliched, blatant, and annoying Mary Sue. You can spot her as being a Mary Sue right from the start. After all, any character that falls from the modern world into that of their favorite anime/book/TV show/etc. will be a Mary Sue. It's an unwritten law. Then there is Kallina. She has a bad temper, a bitchy disposition, no angsty past, and she doesn't have any annoying delusions about finding her true love. However... Kalina does have some typical Mary Sue traits:
1. She's beautiful. Of course, all elves are beautiful, but her beauty is elaborated upon a few times.
2. Every man in the story save her father wants her. What annoys me most about a lot of LOTR stories is how the Mary Sue will always somehow manage to make Legolas realize his twu wuv for her. Well, in this story, Legolas does not proclaim his eternal love for her. However, Kalina practically has him on a leash. He seems to be completely devoted to her, and even gets jealous when she shows interest in other men. Basically, Kalina snags Legolas. And Aragorn wants her too, despite being in a relationship with who Tolkien described as the most beautiful elf ever, her being Tinuviel incarnate and all... Did I spell that right? Probably not.
3. Everybody seems to adore her. Even Celebelen, who is constantly tormented by Kalina, wants to be her friend, even if it was only for the drugs. Even Arwen, who in the beginning despised her it seemed, came to feel a sisterly affection for her. While usually it wouldn't be necessary to have someone dislike Kalina, it might have helped. You know, to balance out nearly every man in the story wanting to fuck her brains out.
4. Kalina seems to have been put into the story to torture the Mary Sue. But besides the vile things she drives Celebelen to do, Kalina never seems to do anything really wrong, and even if she's doing something she knows her father wouldn't approve of, she never gets caught by him. She really doesn't seem to have any real flaws save for her violent nature. She's attractive, witty, intelligent, and must be good with weapons.
As I said, these things wouldn't bother me, because Kalina is a character that does seem to grow on you, but it's the hypocrisy of the whole story that gets to me. If you're going to write a parody in which you torment a Mary Sue, don't sub consciously make another one and insert her as a heroine. By all means, you should continue writing the story, because it is entertaining to read. It's a well written story. But really... Don't write a story meant to bash Mary Sues, when you write them yourself.

(Post a new comment)

	kyuuketsukirui 2003-08-23 01:53 pm UTC (link)
	Uh...I think you missed the point of this community somewhere along the line. :-/ (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 01:54 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I found it a pretty wanky email to wake up to first thing in the morning (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 02:07 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I found it a pretty wanky email to wake up to first thing in the morning (Reply to this)(Parent)

	alden 2003-08-23 03:34 pm UTC (link)
	Wait, how is this wanky? I thought decently-written, thoughtful reviews were a good thing. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 05:02 pm UTC (link)
	I just found it missing the point of the thing in the first place and wanky in spite of its politeness. I'll put it down to perspective. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	alden 2003-08-23 03:40 pm UTC (link)
	And, you know, my grammar is clearly a bad thing. Umm... which makes me think, mistakes first thing in the morning = understandable (to me, anyway). So I can see how you'd be annoyed or amused, or both, at getting the Mary-Sue email, cut-paste-post, there it is. And it's not like you were wanky about your commentary. Anyway, ignore my first comment, if you want. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 05:04 pm UTC (link)
	All comments and opinions are welcome. It leads to discussion. Without it the world would be dull and scary. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sagralisse 2003-08-23 07:27 pm UTC (link)
	Is she right? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 10:29 pm UTC (link)
	She's sort of missing the point. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	parlance 2003-08-23 07:48 pm UTC (link)
	Don't write a story meant to bash Mary Sues, when you write them yourself. You'd think somewhere in the process of typing this sentence, she'd have a revelation and delete the email. Get the feeling she's a favorite target on April Fool's? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 10:34 pm UTC (link)
	As I've said. At least shes polite, but she's so missing the point. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	parlance 2003-08-23 11:07 pm UTC (link)
	but she's so missing the point. Oh, I know - I knew exactly why you'd posted the wank. Tis hella funny. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 11:08 pm UTC (link)
	It's all very silly. I love the smell of confusion in the morning. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	parlance 2003-08-23 11:33 pm UTC (link)
	Frankly, I think the comments on the wank-worthiness of your post have themselves become textbook cases of wank. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-24 01:08 am UTC (link)
	The wank of determining what is wank. I was thinking that. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sajasma 2003-08-23 07:57 pm UTC (link)
	Sorry, am not seeing the wank here. I found the review to be pretty well written and polite. (Reply to this)

	feenix 2003-08-23 08:01 pm UTC (link)
	...Take it to your Journalfen. Writing a Mary Sue, as stated on MSR and sailormoonsues, is NOT the worst thing in the world. And f_w is for stating wank on other comms, though wank erupts here more often than not. At any rate...the only wank here is in your own hand. Sorry. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	delfeus 2003-08-24 12:02 am UTC (link)
	I think the point was, that she's purposedly writing a Mary Sue fic and making it pretty clear, and then this person e-mails and complains that her characters are Mary Sue. I think that's pretty wanky. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-24 01:15 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, that's pretty much it. Admittedly one of them is supposed to be less typically a sue and exists to mock all those Second Daughter of Elrond sues out there who spend all their time mooning about and angsting, then finding true love iwth Legolas. It's sort of a perversion of that. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	redpanda 2003-08-24 12:02 am UTC (link)
	Duuuuurrrr...the story in question is a PARODY. (No, I haven't read it, but the title isn't obvious enough?) I see YOU woke up on the wrong side of the humor bed this morning too! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	quinctia 2003-08-24 02:18 am UTC (link)
	Time to spank the FEENIX! (P.S. Above author is regular on MSR and has been writing this MS parody for ages.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	feenix 2003-08-24 07:40 am UTC (link)
	Okay...but in my stead of self-righteousness, I insist that stupidity once != wank. However, talking when you don't know what's going down = wank. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	shoiryu 2003-08-23 08:04 pm UTC (link)
	I dunno. shrug I've read that story of yours. Kalina is probably a Mary-Sue- I think she is, anyway- but you know, she's the Mary-Sue you root for. This girl does have several good points, IMO. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 10:37 pm UTC (link)
	That's true but I'm perfectly aware of her sue-like qualities and find that this person is missing the point. Doing so politely, but still missing the point. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	jar 2003-08-24 08:16 am UTC (link)
	So the girl is a little slow... doesn't seem wanky just a little, I don't know, silly. ::Shrug:: (Reply to this)(Parent)

iczer6
2003-08-23 09:06 pm UTC (link)

I think the wank is the person just completely and utterly missed the point.

Kalina is a Sue the author admits it, and the story is a parody not meant to be taken seriously in any way.

The person was well meaning but kinda missed the fact that the story was not to be taken seriously.

-But really... Don't write a story meant to bash Mary Sues, when you write them yourself.-

This basically like saying we shouldn't point and laugh at the wank because we ourselves are wanky.

Icz

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 10:38 pm UTC (link)
	That's pretty much it. It's extremely polite wank, but wank all the same for delving too deeply into elements that totally aren't meant to be there. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iczer6 2003-08-24 12:18 am UTC (link)
	Exactly. Just because it's polite doesn't mean it can't be wanky. The fact is this person was basically telling you what you are and are not allowed to write, which no matter how politely the said it, is utterly wanky. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)

	morganya 2003-08-23 09:10 pm UTC (link)
	Dude. It's a review. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it wanky. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	quinctia 2003-08-23 11:03 pm UTC (link)
	I think it's wanky because the story was filled with MS's and the person missed the whole point. It's like writing a HP fanfic parody and one of your reviewers is like "hey you're writing HP fanfic here urself HYPCRACY!!!!!1111111one" (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-23 11:04 pm UTC (link)
	Except she did it politely. Yes, that's pretty much it. I'm being called a hypocrite when I'm perfectly aware of what I'm up to and being lectured on things I'm already aware of. sigh (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: quinctia 2003-08-23 11:25 pm UTC (link)
	It's not a LOT of wank. I think the problem that some f_wers are having is that they don't really know what you are talking about either. I hope over on MSR on occasion, so I do know what you were talking about in the first place. ^^; (Reply to this)(Parent)

iczer6
2003-08-24 12:33 am UTC (link)

Yes it's a review, a review telling her what she is and is not allowed to write according to author's preferences.

Just because someone's polite doesn't mean they aren't wanky. Wank isn't all badly spelled, caps locked posts.

Also this person is basically saying you can't tell political jokes if you vote, or you can't complain about elderly drivers if you have elderly people in you family.

Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	rikoshi 2003-08-23 11:40 pm UTC (link)
	Hypocritically calling someone else a hypocrite? Tastes like wank to me, at least... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-24 01:09 am UTC (link)
	Just because it's written by a literate person doesn't mean it isn't wank (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: rikoshi 2003-08-24 02:33 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, I didn't mean to come across confusingly. I'm agreeing with you that it's wank. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-24 03:59 pm UTC (link)
	Oh no. I wasn't trying to prove a point or anything. I was agreeing with you and explaining my view on the matter. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Nah, I get it, I'm amused redpanda 2003-08-24 12:00 am UTC (link)
	It's wank. "I am obviously massively more intelligent than you, so here's where I do you a huge favor by snootily telling you IN GREAT DETAIL why your character sucks." Uhhh, duh? The whole POINT of the story is that the character is SUPPOSED to suck. It's a blatant parody. Some people missed the humor bus at the very first stop. (Reply to this)

	Heeheehee... fandom_bitch 2003-08-24 12:36 am UTC (link)
	You know, I have not read the original story but by reading this critique I can tell the poor sod missed the whole point of it. That's not only wanky, that's just plain dumb. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Heeheehee... mistresssaigon 2003-08-24 01:23 am UTC (link)
	It really is rather silly. You'd think that by all the actual sindarin I use and so forth they'd realise that I'm pretty familiar with the tolkien canon, and since nobody else is acting the way they should be then why the hell should I keep the Arwen-Aragorn relationship accurate? Honestly. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	zannechaos 2003-08-24 04:29 am UTC (link)
	Hee! I've never read the 'fic, but I knew right off (Hello? Title? Dead giveaway anyone? Anyone? Bueller?) it was a MS Parody. Hello! Someone missed the clue bus! ...and judging from the replies in here, well, at least she's not lonely. ^_^ (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: mistresssaigon 2003-08-24 06:30 am UTC (link)
	It's all rather silly (Reply to this)(Parent)

	And I thought I was tired... ymfaery 2003-08-24 01:08 pm UTC (link)
	I'm going to assume that a good chunk of the earlier comments were made by people who didn't have their usual caffeine intake in the morning because this post was made on a Saturday rather than a weekday. And did you ever reply to this person to politely explain that s/he missed the entire point of the fic? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: And I thought I was tired... mistresssaigon 2003-08-24 03:58 pm UTC (link)
	No, I decided to leave well alone. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	naltariel 2003-08-24 05:40 pm UTC (link)
	Despite this review being wanky or not, I think you've been very unethical here. The girl, though she missed the point, did make an effort to be nice and polite. But you disclosed her email to mock her in a public community. such behavior makes people reluctance to leave criticism, even to author's who genuinely appreciate them. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	quinctia 2003-08-24 11:23 pm UTC (link)
	In general, authors publish postitive reviews on pages all the time. I never really had a problem with mocking emails in my journal. Unless the person explicitly states the correspondance is just between us. I get most of my reviews via email from sites without automatic review systems though. (Reply to this)(Parent)