(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

angel_dust 2003-08-25 10:48 pm UTC (link)

I see a lot of people here aren't getting the wank. Trust me, *I* get it. Oh, do I ever. And yes, it's wanky as all hell. 99% of really devoted fans of a male celeb who gush over how great said male's girlfriend is actually HATE HER GUTS and want her to die. I spent a long time in a fandom that shall go unnamed, but it involved young, good-looking men who were madly MADLY adored by zillions. (lol) If even the vaguest of rumors circulated about one of them having had lunch with a female, 1) she HAD TO BE his girlfriend, and 2) several dozen websites dedicated to worshipping her would pop up overnight. Anyone who didn't profess their undying love for the woman would be blasted out of the water for being jealous, immature, and "not a real fan." Often, it's not a case of fans seeing Billy's (or whoever's) new girlfriend and honestly thinking, "hey, she's cute" or "they look great together" or "I hope he's happy." They're trying to look good to others, thinking that by behaving that way, Billy and others will notice them and think they're really kEwL and mature. Also, I think it's a coping mechanism. They feel like they shouldn't be jealous, so they think if they try to convince themselves they love this woman to death, they'll feel better about themselves. And the whole Mary Sue thing definitely comes into play. Lastly, these girls are fangirling over Billy's girlfriend *because* she's Billy's girlfriend, not because of anything about her,personally, that they like. They are probably posting elsewhere, using other screen names (or maybe even the same, I've caught people doing that in the past many times), calling her a bitch and saying they wish she'd die. I don't find most of this wanky when done in the privacy of one's own brain. But when thrust upon a general fan populous, it achieves major wank status. Especially that whole bow-down-or-else-you're-a-shitty-fan thing. (Reply to this)(Thread)

esorlehcar 2003-08-25 11:13 pm UTC (link)

Lastly, these girls are fangirling over Billy's girlfriend *because* she's Billy's girlfriend, not because of anything about her,personally, that they like. They are probably posting elsewhere, using other screen names (or maybe even the same, I've caught people doing that in the past many times), calling her a bitch and saying they wish she'd die. Oh, for the love of god, calm down. Did you even read the posts and comments in question? I mean, can you point me to a hint of 'bow-down-or-else-you're-a-shitty-fan' in either of the posts or any of the comments? I think Billy's supposed girlfriend is adorable. I said so. People agreed with me. I'm far from a shrieking teeny, and the same can be said for everyone who commented - I really doubt anyone is running around bashing the girl anywhere else. And finally, since when does posting something in one's personal LJ equal "thrusting upon a general fan populous"? I mean, I posted yesterday about finding a new apartment - did I thrust that upon all of fandom, as well? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	miracalix 2003-08-25 11:37 pm UTC (link)
	I mean, I posted yesterday about finding a new apartment - did I thrust that upon all of fandom, as well? Yes, you bitch! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	esorlehcar 2003-08-25 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	*sticks out tongue* Next I'm going to post about scrubbing out the bathtub. And cleaning the litterbox. And doing laundry. I might even relate a particularly dull anecdote from my day at the office. Take that, fandom! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	telesilla 2003-08-26 03:09 am UTC (link)
	How could you do this to your poor unsuspecting firends? My uncle died while telling a dull office ancedote and for you to make light of such things really trivializes my pian. i K33L U B3YatcH!!!1111!!! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - esorlehcar, 2003-08-26 06:03 pm UTC

	angel_dust 2003-08-26 01:36 am UTC (link)
	I was actually talking about the phenomenon in general. None of it was personal. So step off. Geez. (Reply to this)(Parent)

mirabellawotr 2003-08-25 11:58 pm UTC (link)

But when thrust upon a general fan populous, it achieves major wank status. Especially that whole bow-down-or-else-you're-a-shitty-fan thing. Um, did you miss the part where this was posted on esorlehcar's personal LJ? Maybe you can explain in a little more detail how exactly someone broke into your house, held a gun to your head, fired up your internet browser, surfed to her LJ, and forced you to read her post. Or how posting something in your personal LJ constitutes thrusting it upon a "general fan populous" (did you mean populace?). Sorry, honey, there's a hell of a lot of wank going on here, all right, but it ain't coming from esorlehcar. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

esorlehcar 2003-08-26 01:08 am UTC (link)

No, no, Mira, she's quite right. It's time to confess. I've been posting death threats against the girl, who I have termed "Billy's ugly slutbunny," under the names "Billyluver2000," "Hot4Billy" and "FlamingVagina" for months now. The fangirly posts were part of my cunning plan to throw you all off the scent. I deserve to be punished. But for now, I shall simply be grateful that angel_dust saw through my clever ruse and exposed me to the world. Now perhaps I can get the help I so desperately need. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	amasaglajax 2003-08-26 03:26 am UTC (link)
	What is the scent of FlamingVagina? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	esorlehcar 2003-08-26 03:27 am UTC (link)
	Ask MsA. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - cimorene111, 2003-08-26 03:21 pm UTC

	angel_dust 2003-08-26 01:37 am UTC (link)
	See above comment. And don't call me honey. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rogue 2003-08-26 12:21 am UTC (link)

99% of really devoted fans of a male celeb who gush over how great said male's girlfriend is actually HATE HER GUTS and want her to die. That is a really broad and untrue generalization. For starters, the amount of male celebs who have reached a status to have an extreme number of isane fangirls is quite small. There's like a handful of them every year or so. Multiple movies and music groups have shown to have a bit of staying power, but besides that, they're all pretty short-lived fandoms (anyone notice the bout of "Orlando who?" after PotC?). Within that, the number of people who don't hate their celeb-of-choice's girlfriend is again quite small, but not so small it's unheard of - they're just less vocal online. Within THAT, the number of people who are just pretending to like (supposed) girlfriend(s) is EXTREMELY small. I think assuming that anyone who likes a male celeb's girlfriend (wether the girlfriend is a celeb or not) is just a poser with hopes of said celebrity somehow stumbling apon their journal and being oh-so-impressed is just rediculous. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rogue 2003-08-26 12:22 am UTC (link)
	Please excuse the random typoes in that. I am really not used to this laptop. x_O (Reply to this)(Parent)

	hugsnkisses 2003-08-26 01:01 am UTC (link)
	*blink* Whoa sweety, we're not like that scarily-similar-to-the-tinhats place oh god don't tell me there are more of them you're talking about. Step away from the keyboard and take some time out from making up conspiracy theories. We're too busy hunting out/laughing at snark to implement those yet. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	angel_dust 2003-08-26 01:39 am UTC (link)
	I have no idea what scary tinhats place you're talking about. And conspiracy therories? Bwuh? (Maybe I'm reading the comment thread incorrectly and you weren't talking to me. If so, I apologize. Otherwise, I honestly have no earthly idea what you're talking about, LOL!) (Reply to this)(Parent)

Explaining stuff (hopefully without jumping down your throat) sagralisse 2003-08-26 02:15 am UTC (link)

The entertaining part of this post is highlighted for your convenience. 99% of really devoted fans of a male celeb who gush over how great said male's girlfriend is actually HATE HER GUTS and want her to die. I spent a long time in a fandom that shall go unnamed, but it involved young, good-looking men who were madly MADLY adored by zillions. But that's not LOTR. Zillions of people have loved Pippin for decades, and we appreciate Billy. But lusting after him and wanting to have his babies isn't a really a requirement for membership in the fandom. Billy's cute, sorta sexy, is reported to smell good and is a fine comedic actor who gave a spot-on performance as one of our favorite characters. Those of us who know the story are expecting much more of him in ROTK. If he's got a cute girlfriend he's gonna get some gush, just like we gush over pictures of Sean Astin's kids. Often, it's not a case of fans seeing Billy's (or whoever's) new girlfriend and honestly thinking, "hey, she's cute" or "they look great together" or "I hope he's happy." The big battles you'll find around here usually revolves around a contingent of fans (affectionately known as tinhats) who have their heart set on all the hobbits being very very gay. Eso & friends are not in that contingent. So if there's a bit of an ulterior motive in fangirling the girlfriend, then it's more on the order of "Nyah nyah, he's likes to kick it with "icky" girls after all. Take that tinhats!" Pretty much everyone who knows the history of this corner of fandom is in on the joke. Lastly, these girls are fangirling over Billy's girlfriend *because* she's Billy's girlfriend, not because of anything about her,personally, that they like. They are probably posting elsewhere, using other screen names (or maybe even the same, I've caught people doing that in the past many times), calling her a bitch and saying they wish she'd die. Again, wrong fandom. Most of the girls in the fandom who are at that level of maturity don't hang around here and probably go for Elijah and Orlando more than Billy. (LOTR has lots of pretty to choose from.) If I wanted to find some of the jealousy you're talking about, I'd probably try http://www.billyboyd.net as I've heard that there are more teens there. I'm 42 and actually I think the whole teenie celebrity worship thing you describe isn't that disturbing. To me it's sort of cute, like when the kids get into Mom's makeup. I just don't see it happening around here. Lots of us in the older set have our own SOs. Girlfriends (and even wives) just aren't that big of a deal. Wishing she'd go for a threesome with one of the other guys? Maybe. Wishing we could tie up the both of them and give them spankings? Probably. Wishing she'd die? Not likely. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Explaining stuff (hopefully without jumping down your throat) sagralisse 2003-08-26 02:16 am UTC (link)
	Damn... html is kicking my ass today. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Explaining stuff (hopefully without jumping down your throat) angel_dust 2003-08-26 02:34 am UTC (link)

Point taken. I was talking more generally than that and should have been more clear. What I described does exist, most definitely. Thank you for responding in a non-wanky manner. I am of the older set myself, and can tell you, age does not matter, LOL. It's good that LotR has at least some fans that aren't deranged idiots like the fans I'm used to in real-life fandoms. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Explaining stuff (hopefully without jumping down your throat) sagralisse 2003-08-26 04:25 am UTC (link)
	::nods:: Not that I haven't seen some amazingly obsessed people in this fandom. There is picspam and drooling and sappys slash galore. But... I dunno. Maybe all the Briannas are in hiding from the tinhats. ::shrug:: (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Reply from suspended user)

marysia 2003-08-27 03:28 pm UTC (link)

I think you get what I see as wanky about the girlfriend thing, though as noted below by comparing to other fandom groups it's been blown out of proportion. So here is my version of your post trying to explain why I think what Kaz linked to is wanky... I think that while we don't hate her for dating Billy there are a lot of us who are not entirely un-jealous and I think that a lot of the fangirling of her is displacement activity to try and prove we are not screaming Brianna's but mature adults. It's a subtle wank, a read between the lines of the subconscious wank. We're so busy trying to be mature adults that we've slipped over the other side of the line. Of course everyone puts the line somewhere else. I think making icons of Billy and his girlfriend because "OMG they are so cute together I can't wait for them to get married and have babies" is over the sanity line. Not in a lock them up and throw them out of the fandom way, just in an oo-er that's a little bit odd way. YMMV, maybe I'm just not fluffy enough to get it (I don't mean fluffy in a bad way, I just mean I am a bit of an emotionally repressed bitch). Also as angel_dust said, "these girls are fangirling over Billy's girlfriend *because* she's Billy's girlfriend, not because of anything about her, personally, that they like." If this was some random woman you would not be making icons of her and squealing over her fashion sense. Just as if Hannah weren't Lij's sister we would not care about how prettily she twirls. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

esorlehcar 2003-08-27 04:27 pm UTC (link)

I think that while we don't hate her for dating Billy there are a lot of us who are not entirely un-jealous and I think that a lot of the fangirling of her is displacement activity to try and prove we are not screaming Brianna's but mature adults. It's a subtle wank, a read between the lines of the subconscious wank. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think she's adorable. You can certainly choose to interpret that as "I'm wildly jealous but I don't want anyone to know so I'm going to pretend to be a mature adult by saying I think she's cute instead of talking about how I want her to die," but I think that reaction says more about you than it does about me. It's no secret that I adore Billy - a peek at my LJ offers more than enough evidence of that. But I don't care who he dates or doesn't date - in my head he's madly in love with Dom and has been for a long time, and that fantasy is completely unaffected by (and, as far I'm concerned, far superior to) reality. When pictures of this girl first started showing up, the general consensus seemed to be that she was his manager, and I thought she was gorgeous then, too. You're right, I most likely wouldn't have been posting pictures and squeeing over her if she wasn't Billy's girlfriend, but then you have to consider that I'd never have seen her if she wasn't Billy's girlfriend, and certainly not repeatedly. I was squeeing over anatusuno's collarbones yesterday - I wasn't trying to prove anything there, either. I just thought she was lovely, and I said so. This girl is very, very cute. I enjoy that. There really isn't anything more to it than that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	esorlehcar 2003-08-27 05:30 pm UTC (link)
	*sigh* anatsuno. Posting before caffeine is generally not a good idea. (Reply to this)(Parent)

marysia 2003-08-27 06:06 pm UTC (link)

You can certainly choose to interpret that as "I'm wildly jealous but I don't want anyone to know so I'm going to pretend to be a mature adult by saying I think she's cute instead of talking about how I want her to die," Which would be all well and good if I had said I thought you were wildly jealous and consciously trying to hide it. But I didn't. I said I suspected people were "not entirely un-jealous", I know I am not entirely unjealous although I don't really mind either, and also that the wank was both subtle and subconscious. And even if you are not jealous at all that doesn't rule out the possibility that you are trying to seperate yourself from the scarier screaming stalker side of the fandom by being extra mature and accepting. Of course whether any of the above is in fact the case or not I still find people squeeing over Billy's girlfriend highly amusing and a bit odd. Maybe it shouldn't even matter why I do, should we have to dissect why we think something is funny? I'm wondering if this is one of those UK/US humour divides or something. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

esorlehcar 2003-08-27 06:51 pm UTC (link)

Of course whether any of the above is in fact the case or not I still find people squeeing over Billy's girlfriend highly amusing and a bit odd. Maybe it shouldn't even matter why I do, should we have to dissect why we think something is funny? No, of course not. I'm the first to admit that squeeing over Billy's girlfriend is both amusing and odd - in fact, IIRC I said something to that effect in the first post. I was rather surprised (though certainly not displeased) at how many people commented to agree - when I posted I expected if I got any response at all it would be along the lines of "You're drooling over Billy's girlfriend? You freak!" What I don't get, in either angel_dust's raving post or your considerably more thoughtful one, is the assumption that anyone who finds this woman attractive must be either lying or have an ulterior motive in saying so. And this is what I mean by saying I think your reaction has more to do with you than it does with me - I have difficulty fathoming how anyone who wasn't very young or completely delusional could be jealous over an actor's girlfriend. It baffles me. None of us know Billy, none of us know anything about him except the very limited amount of information that's available to the public - what on earth is there to be jealous of? The Billy in my head almost certainly has very little to do with the actual Billy; who the actual Billy dates or does not date doesn't affect "my" Billy unless I choose to let it. You, on the other hand, seem to have difficulty fathoming that anyone could not be jealous of any person their celeb crush dates. I really have no need to prove I'm "extra mature," and if I did, I probably wouldn't go about it by squeeing over pictures. And I think, between Sanity, Please, Rusty Spork and Dl_anon, I've already done a fairly good job distancing myself from the scary stalker side of the fandom. But if you're determined that it's impossible anyone could find this girl attractive without having some kind of ulterior motive, nothing I say or do is going to make any difference. I'll just keep enjoying the pretty pictures - you're more than welcome to keep speculating on what that makes me guilty of. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - marysia, 2003-08-27 07:12 pm UTC

(no subject) - maddiesuebean, 2003-08-27 07:56 pm UTC

(no subject) - marysia, 2003-08-27 08:34 pm UTC

(no subject) - maddiesuebean, 2003-08-27 09:05 pm UTC

I think I see the problem now... - loafing_oaf, 2003-08-28 10:18 am UTC

(no subject) - esorlehcar, 2003-08-27 08:03 pm UTC

(Read comments) -