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The Other Dubya (misswindy) wrote in fandom_wank,
@ 2003-08-26 17:33:00

Current mood:

Amazed

This Slash-As-Homophobic-Rant kind of speaks for itself.
How many times do I have to tell you!? I don't hate slash, or people who only read slash! I only hate the hatemongering trivialization of homosexuality by straight women! BTW, Slash? Is nothing but hatemongering trivialization of homosexuality by straight women. And it makes me want to vomit. But I don't, like, hate it or anything. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!?

Come! Boggle at the ad hominem attacks against her supporters! Snicker at the lukewarm pats of "there, there" from her friends! Cringe at/sympathize with the overpolite attempts to tell her she's full of shit! Marvel at how others viewed the post as an invitation to rant about total non sequiturs!

Eeeep.

(Post a new comment)

soy_latte
2003-08-27 01:01 am UTC (link)

But when I read comments about people who can't bring themselves to write het sex (even though they are straight girls)

I don't want to write het sex. So? There's more than enough het sex on TV and elsewhere (and plenty of other people who will write it in the fanfic world), why do I have to incorporate it into this little hobby that I do as well? Please don't tell me what I should or should not write.

Psh.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	oxydosic 2003-08-27 01:42 am UTC (link)
	The problem with some het writers is the ones who go 'eww, het content!' when they are het themselves. They act completely grossed out by het sex, it just kind of boggles me. I'm just wondering what logic plane they're coming from. Really i'm curious, can someone explain this? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kerikeri, 2003-08-27 02:07 am UTC

misswindy, 2003-08-27 02:46 am UTC

darkrose, 2003-08-27 04:09 am UTC

shoiryu, 2003-08-27 04:44 am UTC

trismegistus, 2003-08-27 10:16 pm UTC

virago, 2003-08-27 02:51 am UTC

shoiryu, 2003-08-27 03:17 am UTC

pradaloz, 2003-08-27 03:38 am UTC

virago, 2003-08-27 03:49 am UTC

pradaloz, 2003-08-27 04:30 am UTC

iris, 2003-08-27 07:11 am UTC

virago, 2003-08-27 02:38 pm UTC

(no subject) - snowball, 2003-08-27 07:31 am UTC

moonjaguar, 2003-08-27 10:37 am UTC

iczer6, 2003-08-28 01:23 am UTC

Re: -

moonjaguar, 2003-08-28 02:30 am UTC

dana, 2003-08-27 01:40 pm UTC

delfeus, 2003-08-27 03:26 pm UTC

kookaburra, 2003-08-28 12:09 am UTC

chaya, 2003-08-28 09:06 am UTC

Well, this is going to sound really stupid, but... - (Anonymous), 2003-08-31 11:23 am UTC

Just to clarify on my above post..

oxydosic
2003-08-27 04:15 pm UTC (link)

I wasn't trying to smack anyone down for their reading/writing preferences. And i wasn't talking about people who just aren't interested in reading het, or are even kind of turned off by it. The ones that boggled me were the ones i've seen like in Livejournal on some fanfic comm, someone posts het smut and they'll actually say, 'eww, het!' or 'despite the fact that it was het (eww), it was pretty good'. Yes i've actually seen the eww stuck in there like that. And i really don't have a problem with them either, just kind of pondering what turns them off about it. So, not bashing anyone for their preferences.

Myself, i don't like to read Yuri. Have no problem with girls getting it on, just not my cup of tea reading wise. Just doesn't do anything for me. A lot of yaoi and het has the same problem for me anymore, because it tends to be the same old pairings. Unless something about it really catches my eye, i usually avoid the usual pairing fics anymore.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Just to clarify on my above post.. -

sagralisse, 2003-08-27 05:27 pm UTC

Re: Just to clarify on my above post.. -

jerry_ds_girl, 2003-08-27 05:33 pm UTC

Re: Just to clarify on my above post.. -

lush_rimbaud, 2003-08-29 08:33 pm UTC

	mynxkittie 2003-08-27 01:33 am UTC (link)
	I don't get what's so wanky about this. She has a point. (Reply to this)(Thread)

iczer6
2003-08-27 01:41 am UTC (link)

{I very much agree with you. Slashfic tends to mirror what's going on in the world as a whole}

Tell me THIS isn't wanky.

So instead of watching CNN I should now only read slash to find out what's going on in the world.

I find the wank in that it seems to me that it's basically a bunch of people trying to claim that what they're writing is Art damnit!

Fact is I'm sure most slash fans are aware that what they're reading is not, and never will be, a reflection of the gay lifestyle.

It's basically people trying to turn a hobby into religion.

ICz

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: -

mynxkittie, 2003-08-27 02:51 am UTC

pet, 2003-08-27 03:10 am UTC

nolifeking, 2003-08-27 03:19 am UTC

Re: -

mynxkittie, 2003-08-27 03:28 am UTC

misswindy, 2003-08-27 03:31 am UTC

darkrose, 2003-08-27 04:01 am UTC

ash, 2003-08-27 03:12 pm UTC

iczer6, 2003-08-27 03:45 am UTC

kyuuketsukirui, 2003-08-27 08:19 am UTC

darkrose, 2003-08-27 04:07 am UTC

lcsbanana, 2003-08-27 05:36 am UTC

heyoka, 2003-08-27 07:45 am UTC

parlance, 2003-08-27 08:20 am UTC

heyoka, 2003-08-27 08:22 am UTC

sepiamagpie, 2003-08-27 09:11 am UTC

ladybirdsleeps, 2003-08-27 03:18 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-08-31 11:34 am UTC

	misswindy 2003-08-27 02:47 am UTC (link)
	She has a point. Yes. It is atop her head. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

zorrorojo, 2003-08-27 01:43 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-08-27 10:41 pm UTC

jfpbookworm
2003-08-27 01:35 am UTC (link)

How many times do I have to tell you!? I don't hate slash, or people who only read slash! I only hate the hatemongering trivialization of homosexuality by straight women! BTW, Slash? Is nothing but hatemongering trivialization of homosexuality by straight women. And it makes me want to vomit. But I don't, like, hate it or anything. WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!?!?

Is there a history here that I'm missing out on? Because I don't get how the rant linked to can be summarized by the above. Yeah, there's that initial "I have said more times than I can count that I don't have a problem with slashfic. Nor do I have problems with people who prefer to read slashfic, or write it. But, apparently, that's not good enough" opening, but the article isn't particularly wanky to me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	wickeprincess3 2003-08-27 01:38 am UTC (link)
	It all began with this wank from last week. A lot of it is anti-rpf/rpf but there is a thread of doom which she has the "Trendy slash expoits gay men" rantage. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

wickeprincess3, 2003-08-27 01:41 am UTC

Buh whu?

nolifeking
2003-08-27 01:39 am UTC (link)

I tell you - women should not read slashy PWP, men should not drool over glittery lesbians, you're only allowed to get turned on by your very own sexlife. Well, maybe you can get some kink on the side, if you're playing nice. We can all agree that fetishes are baaad things?

I say, suggestion rejected due to being boh-ring. Also rejected, the implication that you should only be turned on by epic relationship novels or be a filthy-minded psychopath. But the liking of slash to giving characters disabilities or changed ethnicities I sure can't argue with, what with sexual orientation being set in stone and conviniently tattooed on people's foreheads for all to see - hey, if they're blank, it means they're straight! A quick chat with my acquaintance who knows The One Gay Man told me that there are no such things as bisexuals, after all, and... damn! *vanishes in a puff of logic*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Buh whu? iczer6 2003-08-27 01:43 am UTC (link)
	{I say, suggestion rejected due to being boh-ring. Also rejected, the implication that you should only be turned on by epic relationship novels or be a filthy-minded psychopath.} Fun, FUN!? Slash isn't about fun missy! Slash is ART! It has things like Depth and Meaning! God forbid if your just reading it to get off. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

misswindy, 2003-08-27 02:41 am UTC

shoiryu, 2003-08-27 03:18 am UTC

Re: Buh whu?

misswindy
2003-08-27 02:43 am UTC (link)

A quick chat with my acquaintance who knows The One Gay Man told me

BWAHAHAHAHA! That's what I thought when I read that: Well! She knows a gay person who agrees! That must mean she's right!

Of course, I know about a dozen gay men and women off the top of my head who think she's a generalizing asshat for what she posted, but I'm sure they're not as smart as her one friend :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ailei, 2003-08-27 06:02 am UTC

kerikeri
2003-08-27 02:06 am UTC (link)

Well, in light of the history posted above, this does look like some fairly serious backpedaling (from "slash disgusts me" to "oh, wait, I really just meant badly written slash, and if you're commenting here I don't mean you, so no one can argue with me"), but I can still find some things I agree with in the post. Or, if not necessarily agree with, at least sympathize with.

Hopefully this won't offend anyone, but I'm honestly confused about how some straight female slash writers seem completely intolerant of and even repulsed by fictional depictions of heterosexuality. I understand the concept of escapism and the idea that it's just a kink and a preference for most slashers, and I can completely understand that (if not necessarily the appeal of this particular kink, at least the concept). Still, I've come across a handful of people in the different fandoms I've lurked or participated in who took it to such an extreme that I had to wonder about how their real-life relationships were affected by this. Hopefully I'm not being too wanky here-- again I stress that I'm only referring to a small, radical minority-- but I just don't see how someone with a sexuality that completely excludes herself and her entire gender could possibly have a healthy real-life sex life.

Just something I've honestly wondered about-- not trying to implicate or criticize anyone. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, because it's something I clearly can't understand from my own perspective.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

iczer6
2003-08-27 02:29 am UTC (link)

{Hopefully I'm not being too wanky here-- again I stress that I'm only referring to a small, radical minority-- but I just don't see how someone with a sexuality that completely excludes herself and her entire gender could possibly have a healthy real-life sex life.}

My take is folks like most likely have a boatload of their own sexual issues, which is reflected in thier fanfic.

And like you said they're really a very small minority, they don't represent the whole fandom.

I'll add that for what it's worth I do try to hate female characters because their poorly written and underused, not because they interfer with slashy goodness.

Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)

cesare
2003-08-27 02:57 am UTC (link)

Hopefully this won't offend anyone, but I'm honestly confused about how some straight female slash writers seem completely intolerant of and even repulsed by fictional depictions of heterosexuality.

I think a lot of people who say "Ew, het!" are joking-- I think they're actually making fun of the "Ew, slash!" contingents of fandom who look down on slash fiction.

People who are seriously repulsed by het even if they're het themselves? Man, it's a wide, weird world out there. IMO, whatever their deal is, it's only tangentially related to fandom, if at all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ailei, 2003-08-27 06:22 am UTC

lcsbanana, 2003-08-27 09:10 am UTC

Re: -

ailei, 2003-08-27 03:13 pm UTC

soy_latte, 2003-08-27 07:23 am UTC

Not offended, but-

nolifeking
2003-08-27 03:07 am UTC (link)

Why on earth are the real-life sexlives of strangers an issue for you?

Maybe they're among those people not the slightest bit interested in fictional accounts of what they can already get, but only crave their kinks (they do exist - and if they don't have kinks, they often don't like porn at all...)? Maybe they have issues with themselves that they're hopefully working out? Maybe they're just hardcore fetishists?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Not offended, but- -

kerikeri, 2003-08-27 06:17 am UTC

shoiryu
2003-08-27 03:21 am UTC (link)

No, I agree with you. It's strange to me, as a gay smut writer, how some of these girls could be so /repulsed/ by straight sex. Sex of all kinds is pretty messy. Most of it involves a part of one person going into a part of the other. There's foreplay. There's cuddling. There's... you know, the formula works for all types, even if some of the methods are different.

...I hope /I'm/ making sense.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

coyotegirl, 2003-08-27 08:17 am UTC

mirabellawotr
2003-08-27 07:11 am UTC (link)

Hopefully this won't offend anyone, but I'm honestly confused about how some straight female slash writers seem completely intolerant of and even repulsed by fictional depictions of heterosexuality.

Personally I'm repulsed by them because they're almost invariably so atrociously written that they pose a serious danger of putting me off het sex for life. I happen to like het sex, and I'm always afraid I'll be in the middle of it and suddenly remember some badfic scene where Aragorn is pounding his throbbing manmeat into Arwen's dripping snatch, at which point I will start shrieking with laughter. Straight guys, I've found, tend to look a bit askance at their partners laughing uproariously during sex.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

valarltd, 2003-08-28 06:16 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-08-31 11:46 am UTC

sagralisse
2003-08-27 10:54 pm UTC (link)

There's normally a big difference in people's tastes/tolerances as far as RL sex vs porn. There are women who are in great relationships who get upset when they find het porn on their so's computer. There are men who like watching videos of girls who'll do anything with anybody, but would never consider bedding a stripper. Lots of people like to read the kind of kink and noncon that they'd never ever actually do. It's just two completely separate issues.

Actually... ::rereads:: I don't know if that actually addressed your question. Sorry.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

valarltd, 2003-08-28 06:08 am UTC

pyratejenni
2003-08-27 02:21 am UTC (link)

Considering that yaoi as I've seen it defined by yaoi writers (as apart from slash -- there's an essay/rant out there somewhere) tends to deliberately feminize male characters, sometimes to the point of being women all but in the plumbing, I'd say she has a point there. I've met gay fans who weren't fond of chicks-with-dicks slash, some who didn't care either way, and one who gaped at the Jake and the Fatman slash zine and loudly proclaimed, "That is not a male fantasy. That is not a male fantasy!"

(Reply to this)(Thread)

misswindy, 2003-08-27 02:40 am UTC

cmikhailovic, 2003-08-27 11:34 am UTC

nolifeking, 2003-08-27 02:40 am UTC

nolifeking, 2003-08-27 02:53 am UTC

iczer6, 2003-08-27 03:36 am UTC

	limyaael 2003-08-27 02:42 am UTC (link)
	I have to wonder how she would feel about straight female fic writers who proclaimed that they were only ever going to write het and were disgusted by gay sex. I mean, would that be okay, since they're doing what's "natural" for their orentiation? (Reply to this)(Thread)

misswindy, 2003-08-27 02:49 am UTC

limyaael, 2003-08-27 02:59 am UTC

	iris 2003-08-27 03:54 am UTC (link)
	Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's degrading, but I do tend to question the reasons for the popularity, especially when a lot of people tend to forgive bad slashfic but not bad hetfic. Huh? I see people forgiving bad hetfic all the time. (Reply to this)(Thread)

teapotgirl, 2003-08-27 11:07 am UTC

iris, 2003-08-27 09:14 pm UTC

	eyebrowofdoom 2003-08-27 03:56 am UTC (link)
	Bring on the flames. Pre-emptive, self-imposed martyrdom. Gee, could there be a faster way to earn my sympathy? (Reply to this)

diamonde
2003-08-27 05:05 am UTC (link)

I think I'd find her ranting a lot less annoying if she actually knew what 'fetish' meant. It's a fairly extreme term, and most slash-writers I know have NOT fetishized the boy/boy action. I certainly haven't - I can get off just fine without gay men being involved, not that it's her frickin' business.

That and it's hard to take someone who's afraid of porn seriously. There's nothing wrong with porn, het or slash. It's just porn, it's not real. People like porn. People write porn. People wank over porn. Fact of life, honey, get used to it. Because I've written an m/m PWP in my time doesn't mean I'm trivialising gay people or fetishizing boyband members and superheroes. Writing them having sex without including some grand epic about their romance doesn't make them not people, for fuck's sake, it means I like the idea of them doing the nasty. I just like porn, specifically porn with one or more guys in it. What the fuck is wrong with that?

If she clenches any tighter her head's gonna pop off.

(Reply to this)

jubilancy
2003-08-27 05:53 am UTC (link)

Yeah, of course it's possible to trivialize homosexuality in slash. I've read a few fics myself where my reaction has been, "this person has no idea at all what it's like to be queer."

But, y'know, slash doesn't trivialize people, slash writers trivialize people.

I don't really know why she's even confining her rant to m/m slash, seeing as she doesn't seem to like people getting off on f/f, either. Honey, you have a problem with porn in general.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

musette, 2003-08-27 06:39 am UTC

	luna 2003-08-27 05:25 pm UTC (link)
	With all due respect, this isn't wank. It's just personal opinions being expressed in a private journal. I think the "bring on the flames" aspect might be a little much, but otherwise? Not a wank. (Reply to this)(Thread)

wickeprincess3, 2003-08-27 06:32 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-08-27 07:55 pm UTC

iczer6, 2003-08-27 07:24 pm UTC

ivyblossom, 2003-08-28 03:51 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-08-28 04:29 pm UTC

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