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Schoen-chan (schoenschoen) wrote in fandom_wank,
@ 2003-09-21 21:59:00

Current mood:	BNF-ish
Current music:	"White Flames" ~ Weiß Kreuz
Entry tags:	anime/manga, fanfic, icky girls, pairing wars

Character-bashing is Bad, Mmmmmkay?
Yes, Virigina, there *are* people who like the girls from Weiß Kreuz! As this tiny li'l wanklet proves (Hey, wait! I thought my SN over here already did *most* of the proving of that!)...

For those of you who weren't aware, or were maintaining blissful ignorance, Weiß Kreuz is a show about four hot guys who run a flower shop by day and kill people by night. Of course, being four hot guys, with four hot enemies, they draw lots of yaoi attention. Some people, however, who vaguely call themselves Het-shippers, like het pairings for these four hot guys. Not all the time, and not exclusively, but they like het. OKAY!?! Good.

Het-shippers don't like their pet girls getting bashed. Witness!

Someone, with a pretty bland sense of humor, writes a Sakura-Bashing fic. By Gundam Wing or Slayers standards, this is sub-par, at best. However, this asshat manged to get the attention of the tiny, close-knit band of passing Het-shippers! Watch as the flames go higher and higher! She gets a few generic pats on the back before they ride in, the clip-clop of hooves overheard in the distance as two of the four Tohru of the Apocalypse, Crystal Dawn and GangstaVidel make their appearances to smack her down. Just like Star_of_Heaven said she (Crystal Dawn) would.

And the author, quite predictably actually, invokes the now infamous "If you don't like it, DON'T READ/LOOK AT/ACKNOWLEDGE IT!" line. (Actually, I think she did - I couldn't wade through her spelling in the reply review too well...) Well, I suppose it would've been smart for the author to do that before she started writing bashing fics, right? And badly spelled reply reviews...

Oh, and... CD would like you all to know that she would like to have first dibs on getting a new corollary to Godwin's Law named after her: "Anyone found to be using "If you don't like it, DON'T READ/LOOK IT!" as a defense to bad fanfiction, screaming kids, or anything else, is hereby declared to be the de facto loser of the argument."

And the Het-shippers would like you to know that they can wank it with the best of 'em.

(Post a new comment)

lauren
2003-09-22 06:27 am UTC (link)

The WK fandom has the unfortunate luck of attracting yaoi fangirl hoardes into its midst, and its fangirl hoardes victimise themselves like NO OTHER FANDOM.

... Let's just say you've never looked obsession in the face until you've RPed with a Youji clone named Yougi, and nobody gets it when you ship him with Booboo.

(This saying nothing of the other badly-written Weiss clones of the group. That whole RPG was bukakke at its best.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

schoenschoen
2003-09-22 07:48 am UTC (link)

*dies* That's like the "Bear on Crack" skit that me and one of my friends did a few years back!

Me: and Xellos comes stumbling out of QOS's bedroom like...
Her: A bear on crack!
Me: Oh, great. So he's all like "Hey, BooBoo! Where's my fourty!?"
Her: And BooBoo's like "Yogi, I don't think the Ranger should be twitching like that..."
Me: "Don't worry, BooBoo! It's just an overdose!"

And, yeah - fangirls. ^^ *laughing* I'm so going to act like a het-shippy idiot from now on, just to give them something to whine about "OMG, diD U C Ken Lookit Scho.. Sche.. Chen when she wUz trYign to k1ll him, OMGOMGOMMG!!!1!one!"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lauren 2003-09-22 10:01 am UTC (link)
	dead! What is it about this fandom that attracts references to Yogi the Bear? ~~... possibly the equal amount of character "growth" in both shows.~~ (Which is not to say that I don't find it amusing. But dude! It's not the Shakespeare of anime.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	banal_o_rama 2003-09-22 06:27 am UTC (link)
	Bitch better get in line--I already proposed that fucker weeks ago. And nobody agreed with me. :( I wish I had toadies. (I also wish I could find the proof of that. Blast, I know it was August, wasn't it?) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	hakainokami 2003-09-22 06:30 am UTC (link)
	I don't agree with her either, at least for properly warned fic. It's like wet floor signs. The sign says wet floor, may be slippery. If you walk on it anyway and fall; well it was your own bright idea. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

banal_o_rama
2003-09-22 06:35 am UTC (link)

Well, if you read something that you know is going to squick you, even though it's clearly labeled, then yes, you are retarded and have no business complaining about it to anyone. However, if you read something that could be good, and it turns out to have been written by a particularly deranged feces-stained basement monkey with a typewriter, and you point out to this monkey that their chotto chotto buttsex epic is in fact NOT on par with Hamlet, then this defense is without merit, and that filthy monkey loses automatically.

Which I hope is something we can all agree on.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

schoenschoen, 2003-09-22 07:31 am UTC

banal_o_rama, 2003-09-23 02:13 am UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-22 08:58 am UTC

zannechaos, 2003-09-22 09:10 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-22 09:19 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-09-22 07:58 am UTC (link)

Love the icon. Rare to see a Jack Chick icon, strange seeing as how he's so...amusing.

I myself watched about three episodes of WK. I hated it, and I was bored to tears, but I had heard a lot about it and I was determined to give it a shot. But then my PS2 started to freeze up. It was so boring, the poor thing couldn't handle it. I took pity on it and used the disc as a coaster from then on out.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2003-09-22 08:07 am UTC (link)
	I meant that last post to go to banal o rama. Fotta hate it when shit gets all outta whack like that. oh well. (Reply to this)(Parent)

schoenschoen
2003-09-22 08:37 am UTC (link)

Damn! That makes me wish I had my old Chick booklets with me still! :D Those were the best! Did you ever see the one with the mobile guillotine? XD

And Weiß is one of those series where you will have to sit through about 5 episodes of crap before you hit anything remotely resembling character development or plot. Right about episode six, it becomes bearable, and right about episode eight, it becomes decent.

The way I like to describe it is 'bad kung fu movie fun!' ^^ Because, really, if you think about it, it *is* like an animated kung fu movie. XD

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-09-22 09:22 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-22 10:00 am UTC

teratologist, 2003-09-22 05:52 pm UTC

coyotegirl, 2003-09-22 07:18 pm UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-23 02:18 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-23 02:55 am UTC

jerry_ds_girl, 2003-09-22 07:19 pm UTC

shimegami
2003-09-22 07:25 am UTC (link)

Now....I never saw het pairings in this show because all the girls had batshit character development.

Well, the entire show had batshit development, but the girls worst of all.

Weiss = hit guys + bad plot + good music + shitty girls = recipe to draw the yaoi girls in like bees. I swear that show is there to just make music and pretty men, and be done with it.

Oh, I feel so bad for being a Weiss fangirl for more than a year....though I was more of a Schwarz fan than a fan of the main four hotties. XD Teh God-hating loonies rock my world.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

schoenschoen
2003-09-22 07:42 am UTC (link)

Yeah, there was batshit characterization enough to go around. Tod and Schoen, in particular, get shortchanged the most - there are two fantastically fucked up women, but no one ever bothered to delve into their pasts. The most you get is a bio of each of them in the FilmBook that mentions that Schoen was kicked from the modeling biz for drug use (OMG just liek Ken and Soccar! Tehir Luv iZ SO PURE!!!1! And Bondagey!) and Tod was abused by her dad. *the type of abuse is never specified, as far as I can read it*

As far as that goes, it makes you wonder about Nagi, Crawford, and Schuldich, too. It seems like they could only get enough of their wits together to write for Aya and Farfarello.

And I believe you're actually right on the money with the 'the show was there to make music' remark. If I'm correct, Koyasu had it produced out of his own pocket to promote the band he had with the other three Weiß seiyuu, Miki, Yuuki, and Seki. And his own ~~Mary Sue~~ writing, of course.

The Het-shippers, at least the ones I've talked to who are involved in this, accept yaoi and yuri pairings and ship quite a few of them. They just don't like people flaming them for their preferences. ^^

And you, my friend? You rock. ^^

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

harukami, 2003-09-22 08:09 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-22 08:31 am UTC

harukami, 2003-09-22 09:04 am UTC

trintrin, 2003-09-23 01:21 am UTC

whee (I have crappy subjects) -

shimegami, 2003-09-22 03:33 pm UTC

zannechaos
2003-09-22 08:36 am UTC (link)

And lo, the Tohru of Death rides in.

I'm not so sure about the corollary. It applies to a lot of stuff and not always in a wank context. If Yaoi/Yuri/Het/BDSM/Furries aren't your thing - don't read the stories, and don't bitch about it if you do and don't like them.

But there's no justification for a bad marysue or a bashfic, or just a badfic in general.

Maybe it needs modifying?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

schoenschoen
2003-09-22 08:45 am UTC (link)

Yo, Death! Wordy McWord, my droogie!

Yeah - if someone labels the fic and says "This is porn. This is BDSM. This is furry." and you don't *like* porn, bondage, or furry, and you go ahead and read it anyway, then it's your own damned fault. If they don't label their fic, then, yes - it's their fault and deserve whatever flames they get. And very rarely do I see people who label their fics properly pull that excuse out, anyway. ^^

But bashing fics? Even if they *are* clearly labeled, they're incredibly rude and they're just *asking* for people to come kick them in the backside. And a basher using the old "Don't like it, Don't read it!" argument is highly hypocritcal - if they followed their own advice, they wouldn't be writing bashing fic in the first place. They would be too busy ignoring the characters they didn't like. ^_~

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

zannechaos, 2003-09-22 08:48 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-22 09:00 am UTC

zannechaos, 2003-09-22 09:06 am UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-22 09:12 am UTC

zannechaos, 2003-09-22 09:26 am UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-22 09:37 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-22 09:53 am UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-22 10:01 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-22 09:37 am UTC

rhi_silverflame, 2003-09-22 07:37 pm UTC

kasra
2003-09-22 09:25 am UTC (link)

The girls really get the short end of the stick in the anime. It's a shame, because I would have loved to have seen better character development for Schreient.

Err... wait - "character development" and Weiss? What was I thinking?

Quite honestly, I despise bashing fics, even for characters I dislike. I find it a far better measure of skill in writing to take a character that I dislike and use them in a manner in a fic that makes me not only respect them, but come out liking their personality by the end of it. I remember reading a KxO fic about a year or so ago that transformed me from a Tot-hater into a Tot fan. The writer didn't do anything special - she just happened upon just the right role for the character, and made all of her actions make logical sense.

But I can be a snob about writing - downright wanky, when it comes down to it. Which means I should probably shut up now. ^_^;

Sakura x Satan is my new OTP. Wasn't that what the second season of WK was all about?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

zannechaos
2003-09-22 09:35 am UTC (link)

I find it a far better measure of skill in writing to take a character that I dislike and use them in a manner in a fic that makes me not only respect them, but come out liking their personality by the end of it.

AMEN!!!!

I've had my opinion of several characters transformed by 'fics that handled them well, and I've even been open to alternate pairings that offered up a 'ship in a plausible, well-done, and enjoyable manner.

I try to write Amelia for Slayers in the Post-TRY setting as showing the kind of Character Growth she'd have, not just from the three seasons, but the almost four years since the end of TRY.

I adore her now, but I hated her when I first saw her. I didn't get to liking her until I got cornered into RPing her, and I had to get inside her head. When I did that, I realized there was more to her, when I started analyzing her.

So I write to show her as being someone who IS likeable. She's still Amelia, but she's not bashfodder.

I've had to handle characters I disliked, and I've tried to do so in a way that was fair to them, regardless of my personal feelings.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

schoenschoen
2003-09-22 09:44 am UTC (link)

Sakura x Satan is my new OTP. Wasn't that what the second season of WK was all about?

OMG, I wasn't the only one who saw that?! :O CD wrote a fic about that, too - it was called Silent Storm. ^^ Heh. Well... sorta.

And I love your icon muchly. I saw it on LJ before, but I just thought it bore repeating. ^^

Quite honestly, I despise bashing fics, even for characters I dislike. I find it a far better measure of skill in writing to take a character that I dislike and use them in a manner in a fic that makes me not only respect them, but come out liking their personality by the end of it.

I agree with this statement completely. I have a great deal of respect for people who write characters they despise fairly and repress the urge to bash. People who bash, however, have no respect from me.

And, yeah - Schrient needed lots more character development. ^_~ *points at screenname*

(Reply to this)(Parent)

rhi_silverflame
2003-09-22 07:40 pm UTC (link)

Quite honestly, I despise bashing fics, even for characters I dislike. I find it a far better measure of skill in writing to take a character that I dislike and use them in a manner in a fic that makes me not only respect them, but come out liking their personality by the end of it.

I love you. *swoons*

But I can be a snob about writing - downright wanky, when it comes down to it. Which means I should probably shut up now. ^_^;

Don't? Please?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

rogue
2003-09-22 09:51 pm UTC (link)

A little late on the reply...

I think the lack of even attempting character development for females in WK has to do with the fact that the entire series was made for fangirls. All the artbooks are big yaoi propoganda fodder fanservice. The girls are there partially as token females (Manx and Birman), partially as last-ditch effort to make for some kind of a plot (Sakura, that chick Ken was with, Schrient), or there to boost developement for a male (Aya-chan, Ooka). Overall they're not too important, as the point of the series is to get people tp buy merchandise of the boys.

... Where was I going with that? I don't remember. D'oh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

trintrin, 2003-09-23 01:25 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-23 02:04 am UTC

rogue, 2003-09-23 04:37 am UTC

kasra, 2003-09-23 05:24 am UTC

rogue, 2003-09-23 05:29 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-23 05:29 am UTC

rogue, 2003-09-23 05:34 am UTC

schoenschoen, 2003-09-23 05:54 am UTC

rogue, 2003-09-23 08:47 pm UTC

chaos_priestess, 2003-09-25 04:14 am UTC

split
2003-09-22 10:35 am UTC (link)

I found character bashing extremely boring and a major waste of time. Like someone said above me, try to make me like a character with your writing skill! If I don't hate him or her in the show, what makes you think I'll start hating the character because of your poor portrayal? On the other hand, if you make me love someone I previously hate because of your story, I'll tip my hat for you. Seriously.

I didn't finish reading that fanfic. ^_^;; WK isn't even my one of my favorites, but reading the fic makes my head spin.

(Reply to this)

	maev_connacht 2003-09-22 05:00 pm UTC (link)
	What's an oso, and how would one mangle it? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	virago 2003-09-22 06:19 pm UTC (link)
	OMG ICON. That is all. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	calluna 2003-09-23 01:06 am UTC (link)
	Er, I think it's "bear" in Spanish. Mangling her bear, huh? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

maev_connacht, 2003-09-23 01:24 am UTC

trintrin
2003-09-23 01:29 am UTC (link)

Attack of the double names! Um.. yeah.. *cans it*

This is funny. WK is just a place for sues and bashing!fics to populate. I hate wading through all that shit on ff.net to get to something I read. Bashing only gets more bashing..

The look don't read? Being in the yaoi fandom, as I am, there was an incident I think last week, someone bitched out a writer for having sex in her fics. The fics were NC-17. This person went and SEARCHED for NC-17 then bitched about reading about sex.. I wanted to smack her and her stupidness...

And I love the girls in Weiss.. Manx is so much freaking fun.. *holds up her odd picture of Manx and Birman* Can't these people that do this stupid shit realize that there is more than one gender in that series?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

schoenschoen
2003-09-23 02:00 am UTC (link)

Heh. XD *glomples j00*

Yah, we beat that dead pony quite a few times in the thread above. If the fic is clearly labeled "NC-17, yaoi, yuri, furry" or anything like that, then it's definitely a case of 'don't like it, don't read it'. And most people *won't*. I'm not partial to, say, Schu/Ken, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go out *looking* for Schu/Ken fics so that I can flame the authors. And if I'm reading something, and it turns out that it's Schu/Ken - if it's not decent enough a story already, I can always leave it. *shrug* But character bashing is one of those cases where it's tantamount to trolling.

I have a friend *I believe you met her, too ^_~* who was quite tempted to wear a sign on her back at the latest con she attended that read "YES, there are women in Weiß. Get over it." *laughing*

And I was wondering what your JF name was! :O *runs off to friend you*

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Awww..... pyratejenni 2003-09-24 01:17 am UTC (link)
	The poor widdle author took her story down! (Reply to this)

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