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Elf From Space ([info]elffromspace) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2003-09-22 00:59:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:fandom: inuyasha, grudgewank

Mailing List Morons
Soo.. I recently began moderating an Inu Yasha Mailing listwith approximately 500 members, way too many of whom seem to have NO concept of netiquette and how mailing lists work. The latest person I banned I knew from them having started a flame war with an older member a few months ago and for their gems of messages of the like:

"So, eleloi, that IY cel is yours? the REAL one? You think I can uh, have it?"

with about 3 pages of attatched message. One of my pet peeves being One Liners with long attatched messages >.<

Also, no less than *3* messages similar to this:

"Does any1 know when new eps of IY are coming on CN???????? I need to know!"

even after people had repeatedly posted cartoon network's schedule and explained that no-one knew any more than that and most of the members didn't care.

Then they sent two forwards to the ML. I sent them a formal warning and put them on Moderation. I proceeded to repost the rules to the entire ML explaining that fowards and one liners etc were unacceptable and we were going to start banning repeat offenders. So she send ANOTHER forward. That really lame one promising that Bill Gates will send you money if you send it to enough people >.<

So, being quite fed up with this, and having very little tolerance for people who send spam to MLs of 500 people I wrote the following, slightly cranky,

____________________

You have been BANNED from the SangoMiroku Mailing list. Please do not come
back and I would love it if you would refrain from joining any mailing lists I
am a part of ever again!

Since they day you have joined you've sent at least 3 forwards to the mailing
list which is STRICTLY against the rules (Do you *really* believe this forward?? So this
last one claims it's real and we'll all get money. Ya know that message has
been running around the internet for over 4 YEARS now! And no-one has gotten
any checks. Do you seriously believe everything that a spam email tells you??
Even if it were real it's STILL against the rules! If we wanted forwards, we'd
make an ML to send forwards to each other.) You also have refused to ever trim
your posts, which has always been in the rules, and have a history of
particularly annoying one liners with huuuuge attatched replies. When you
joined the ML you saw the rules. When you were set to moderation you were
warned again. Just YESTERDAY I sent the rules out yet again.

Sorry, but you've gone long over the line of understandable mistakes. Good Bye.


____________________

and I got the following

____________________

First off, WHO ARE YOU?! I have never received any emails concerning the forwards I have sent to the ML. I am so sorry that you have taken it so personally, I swear, these females on the mailing list PMS 24/7. And how would you know how many forwards I have sent since I have been apart of the ML. You must be a stalker or something, LOL! Anyway I understand that you are upset and that I should have paid more attention to the rules, I’m sorry, everyone forgets things at times. But you did not have to stoop so low as to resort to petty name-calling. I’m pretty sure I am way younger than you are and not even I do that! And when I sent the two forwards, it was by accident, sorry.
Do you have any authority to remove me, just wondering. Because the one the sent me the rules definitely was not you. I did not even receive any rules from you neither back then nor recently. You must have sent it to the wrong person. It was not me! And I can come back if I want, in another name. You sound so childish in this line: Please do not come back and I would love it if you would refrain from joining any mailing lists I am a part of ever again!
Oh please, anyway. I send Spam mail not because I believe it, just because I feel like it. But that was the only “Spam” mail I have sent. Others have been stuff that you could disregard. Again, sorry for causing you any discomfort in your time of the month. I understand you; it can be annoying to receive forwards when you are cramping. That is why I chose to write this when my time was over. I do care about how other people and you have no right to say that because you do not know me! And trust me, not everyone is having fun on the ML from what I have seen in the messages (with the whole american dubbed inuyasha and the japanese version) I’m not saying it’s me though. As you can see I have not sent a message in long while now. And remember this line: (really, how dumb are you?
Well, I think you should be asking yourself that question. Now that I am done speaking my mind as you were when you sent that frivolous letter to me, may I have the sponsor or whoever runs the ML to email me his/herself? I find it pointless to speak to a childish pawn in someone’s game.
Thank you for taking time to read my email. I appreciate it. And again, sorry for any inconvenience I have put upon your head.
P.S. I don’t know why you would not want me in other mailing list that you are in (even though I have no idea which others you are in) because I have done NADA to you, NOTHING! And we’ll ignore all those grammatical errors in your message. *Whispers to self- smart*

____________________

along with this pleasant little afterthought:
____________________

Also, excuse me for bothering you again, but did you not say in your "rules" that if you were directing constructive critism or in a debate to be MATURE about it? I don't know if you were giving me constructive critism or trying to place me in some kind of debate but whatever it was, you were not being mature about it. Sorry I had to send such a short message but it's just a little something I had to get off my chest. Not to be rude or offensive in ANY way whatsoever. Again thank you for taking time to read my message.

____________________

I replied (which I shouldn't have wasted my time doing, but I was amused byt their idiocy) and got

____________________

Ha. Very funny about the mailbox being overfull with forwards but…no. My mailbox was not full. And what’s up with this line:
(We only instantly banned the person who sent 3 different forwards several times each within an hour.)
If this is true then I shouldn’t have gotten banned. Anyway, you shouldn’t be up so late if you have a job to go to. Even I know that. And I did not constantly ask about the CN scheduling. I asked only once and “Urd” had the nerve to snap on me so I snapped back. Then I received a letter from Sango-sama saying to stop and I did. And that was the end of that. But you said she nicely posted the schedules. “Nicely”? I don’t know what your definition of nice is but you read the message, right? She shot at me for asking for it THEN posted a link. In fact, I did look for it. Guess I’m not as “lazy” as you think.
Sorry, I didn’t know that people took forwarding so seriously. I mean, I didn’t know it made people “angry”. Whatever. It must just be you and that Sharlene person, as unimportant and supposedly uninvolved as she is. I just have fun reading forwards and what they have to say. And I have to disagree with you, they weren’t made to test how stupid people are. You may not sink to the level of name calling but calling people dumb directly still stoops to a very low low.
You say that I can rejoin and you wouldn’t have a problem with it but in the previous letter you said that you wouldn’t want me back in the ML or any other mailing list you’re involved in – contradiction. But maybe it was because you were so grumpy from lack of sleep. Sending forwards isn’t an open topic for someone hating you. I think that statement stupid. Excuse me for using such an “inappropriate” word but no other word could describe it.
You know what, I take the whole me caring about what other people think about me back. Because I don’t. Do you care about what other people think?
People would go on how they usually did before and after I joined the ML. I haven’t replied to any posts recently. Some people might not even know if I’m still on the ML or not. So getting rid of me isn’t going to change how they were before. And trust me, they never really HAD REAL discussions.
And how can I give you a headache with something that didn’t even concern you? What happened between Urd and I really should have no effect on you (even though it WAS a few MONTHS ago). It didn’t involve you. If you check your records, I have not sent you 3 forwards in the past few weeks. One of them was sent twice which was a mistake if you forgot. And if you didn’t see any grammatical errors in your message then I feel sorry for you. There is a little something called “proof reading”. It helps a lot. People use it when they’re known for making mistakes in their writing. Maybe you’re the one who should know more about grammar before correcting others. And trust me, I didn’t have any grammatical errors in my message. Look over it again if you want and point them out to me. Even in this message you have grammatical errors. It’s ok though, I won’t tell anyone. I know a lot about grammar to correct any and everyone who tries to make me look dumb. All I have to do is show them what I’ve got and then they end up being the ones looking dumb. And no, this was sent by you, not sango-sama. If you want me to send it to you, I will:
Also, excuse me for bothering you again, but did you not say in your
"rules"
>that if you were directing constructive critism or in a debate to be
MATURE
>about it? I don't know if you were giving me constructive critism or
trying to
>place me in some kind of debate but whatever it was, you were not
being mature
>about it. Sorry I had to send such a short message but it's just a
little
>something I had to get off my chest.
And just a little note, you banned me after you sent me the rules. If you don’t understand, let me make myself clear. I forwarded the double “Spam”, you sent the rules a day after, then you banned me a few days later, even though I had sent no recent forwards. So please look into that for me. And I can send it for you if you want. That’s just a little something that may get me back on the ML. Thank you for taking time to read this letter once again. Bye.
P.S. Do you watch Trigun?

______________________

They even
______________________

s_mars: Hmm.....now don't I know you from somewhere?
There's a little message in your inbox. Just thought
I'd let you know.
myn: So now who's the stalker, hm? Can we be done
with the little teen drama queen thing?
s_mars: Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to
start ANYTHING. And I saw your icon on and just
decided to IM you and let you know that you have new
e-mail.
myn: Thanks. I got it. Don't plan to respond to
it, since I said what I needed to say. Now we're
done, right?
s_mars: If you stop poking your nose in where it
doesn't belong, then, yeah. Of course. Do you mean for
me not planning on you to respond to my e-mail?
myn: I mean, are you planning on continuing your
harassment of the SangoMiroku list moderators, or are
you going to move on with your life?
s_mars: Trust me, I've been moving on with my life
way before the ML. And I wasn't harrassing, you were.
I didn't even KNOW you before that e-mail you sent me.
And I have nothing to do with the other moderators. I
don't even know who they are.
myn: Okay, then. No more emails to Elf/Jane, no
more emails to me, and the same in return. Right?
And may our paths never cross again.
s_mars: Except in the Ml cuz I WILL be back - sooner
than you think. I just forgot how to sign up but I'll
search.
myn: You know, you really do need to work on this
obsession thing.
s_mars: What obsession thing. I don't have
obsessions.
myn: You got kicked off a mailing list for not
following the rules that have been clearly posted,
both on the list and on the home page. Instead of
just moving on with your life, you flame the people in
charge of the list and vow that you WILL return. Does
this not seem a tad obsessive to you? Why not form
your own list, an alternative to our draconian regime?
myn: Heck, I'll even post an announcement about it
on the list for you.
s_mars: I've never seen the homepage. That just
shows how much I don't check my mail much. Man, you
are making this hard for yourself. I only responded to
Jane's e-mail cuz she snapped on me for no reason then
all of a sudden YOU came from...i don't know where.
And the whole "I WILL return" thing was a joke! Loosen
up a little. Do you EVER laugh?! LoL. I already told
you that I have a life. Making my own ML would be a
contradiction and only prove that I have no life. I
have better things to do than to slave over an ML. I
do have school work to do. I have something called a
life.
myn: Okay, then. You enjoy your life, bon voyage,
sayonara, may all your dreams come true, etc. etc...
And we're done now, right?
s_mars: Ok........I'll see you back on the ML soon.
myn: Well, hopefully you'll figure out how to read
and follow the rules, and I won't have to ban you
again. Good luck.
______________________
my fellow moderator who had got in on things when I told her what a pain she girl was being:



And now they're finally sending me these repeated messages:

______________________


Hello! Nice to talk to you again. I was just wondering if there was any way I could be placed back into the ML.

____________________

I'll give em a chance to come up with one more amusing wanky reply and then I blocking them from my email.



(Post a new comment)


[info]dawnswalker
2003-09-22 09:11 am UTC (link)
Er... LJ-cut, please?

(Reply to this)


[info]irk
2003-09-22 09:45 am UTC (link)
Yeah, this wank is great, but it screams for an lj-cut. n_n;;; Still, I love this most of all:

I think that statement stupid.

It's like zen.

(Reply to this)


[info]zannechaos
2003-09-22 09:52 am UTC (link)
Great wank. Lovely wank. (and yes, you know me. ^_^)

It just needs a cut here or there for garnish. You can click the pretty, shiny pencil icon at the top of the post to edit, and C&P the following tags where desired, and put your own nifty link text in the quotes:

<lj-cut text="nifty link text here"> produces this:
( nifty link text here )

If you want to use more than one LJ-CUT, use the Cut close tag:
</lj-cut> at the end of the portion you want behind a certain tag, before putting in another LJ cut. Like so:

<lj-cut text="dead beaded ponies!">Blah blah blah, wankity wank wank, dead beaded ponies...</lj-cut>

<lj-cut text="HP fandom strikes again!">And here we have plagerism plagersm plagiarism!</lj-cut>


That will produce:

( dead beaded ponies! )

( HP fandom strikes again! )


on the friendlist page. ^_^

Hope that helps.

(Reply to this)

Not sure if it's wank, but she IS an annoying little bitch eh?
[info]redpanda
2003-09-22 09:54 am UTC (link)
Let me be the obligatory third to point out the supreme irony of you complaining about being spammed while neglecting to use a freaking LJ-CUT. Thank youuuuu.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Not sure if it's wank, but she IS an annoying little bitch eh?
guardian_writer
2003-09-22 10:34 am UTC (link)
spam is bad

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]misswindy
2003-09-22 10:50 am UTC (link)
Good Lord, my eyes. LJ-CUT!!!!

(And isn't reposting private e-mails a JF TOS no no?)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sagralisse
2003-09-22 03:28 pm UTC (link)
(And isn't reposting private e-mails a JF TOS no no?)

Actually, no.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]misswindy
2003-09-22 03:43 pm UTC (link)
That's cool. It's still kind of an assy thing to do.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]resmiranda
2003-09-22 04:26 pm UTC (link)
No, but it's bad F_W form.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]senor_pinata
2003-09-22 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Heh. I knew you were going to be talking about the sangomiroku list before I even read the name of it. Good god, thanks for kicking her off. >.< That girl has some interesting mental processes. "I WILL BE BACK! Oh, that was just a joke. But I WILL BE BACK!"

(Reply to this)


[info]cesare
2003-09-22 04:59 pm UTC (link)
Just joinin' the chorus of the self-policing FW crowd. Republishing private emails without notification/permission = not cool. Likewise hugely long posts with no lj cut.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Apologies
[info]elffromspace
2003-09-22 05:58 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the explanatoin of the LJ cuts, and I'm sorry to everyone whose mailboxes I overloaded. I am rather new to LJs and had no idea that these wonders existed. I'll make sure I use that when/if I post again. I HAVE been complaining about people who don't comprehend Mailing Lists, but then I set it so that each new member gets an email explaining everything you could want to know about MLs and the rules I'd like to enforce in excrutiating detail.

As for the private emails, yes I questioned posting them, but I carefully removed their email address and changed their AIM in that log. And yep, it happened back in August, but I didn't know how to post to FandomWank.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Apologies
allen
2003-09-22 06:19 pm UTC (link)
You can fix this very post. When you click on the comments link, up at the top of your post, you'll see a little bar with different symbols (the heart, the email, a pencil, etc.). Click on the pencil and you'll be able to edit the post.

Please, for the love of my friends page. =)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cesare
2003-09-22 06:23 pm UTC (link)
No problem on the cuts, everyone has to learn that for the first time, and yay to [info]zannechaos for kindly providing a demo.

Private emails... it's just generally considered bad form, netettiquette-wise, to publish them. Anything they say in group forums is fair game, but emails that were directly sent to only you? Maybe someone else can better explain why that's discouraged around here.

But I wouldn't want someone airing my emails publically without my permission, and I would think twice about writing to people if it weren't a tacit online rule that you don't publish private emails without permission. It's nothing to do with letting the correspondent's email address or AIM get out. It's about their assumptions when they wrote the email, and their trust that they were speaking only to, and for, you, not for an audience.

I'm not sure that's clear. Well, like I said, someone else can probably explain it better.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]calluna
2003-09-22 05:05 pm UTC (link)
I think that statement stupid.

She serious? If so, I want an icon. ;)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]onetrickpony
2003-09-22 06:00 pm UTC (link)
Because "stupid white men" was the first thing that poped up in a google search for 'stupid'...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]calluna
2003-09-22 06:42 pm UTC (link)
Wasn't expecting anyone to take me up on that. ;) Thanks!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]feenix
2003-09-23 01:23 am UTC (link)
Rule #1 of F_W: Sooner or later, everything will be iconed.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mauralabingi
2003-09-22 06:42 pm UTC (link)
*loves on the icons*

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Mmmm, fingerquotes.
[info]ieatpeople
2003-09-22 07:01 pm UTC (link)
*yoinks!*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bookshop
2003-09-22 10:23 pm UTC (link)
HAHAHAHA!!!! I WANT A MICHAEL MOORE WANKTASTIC ICON!!! *covets* that is teh shizzle.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]zannechaos
2003-09-23 12:38 am UTC (link)
Just for everyone's general amusment...

I keep hearing "I think that statement stupid" in the same rhythm as "She thinks my tractor's sexy" (Kenny Chesney)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sagralisse
2003-09-22 05:30 pm UTC (link)
::Looks at your journal::

Did this really happen back in August?

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2003-09-22 05:53 pm UTC (link)
**snorts** Don't you know? Mailing lists are for those dinosaurs who were around back in the days that dial-up was still the shit. REAL cutting-edge technophiles use yahoo groups. And of course any infraction made by a teenager is automatically the fault of the moderator B/C Of t3h Bl1ndn3ss OMGLOL! p1ty m3! that they all suffer from.</sarcacsm>

But I must join the chorus begging for an lj-cut.

=^-^= Kittykat

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Still not getting hte LG cut
[info]elffromspace
2003-09-22 06:11 pm UTC (link)
Mailing list, yahoo group. It's a yahoo group, but I still call it a mailing list. And this particular teenager got in Before I was a moderator. I've started automatically setting all new members to moderated posting status so I can at least catch em before they sent the messages to the whole group.

But, on the note of LJ cuts, I probably just massacred my message attempting to add them and it doesn't seem to have worked. And now I have to go to my grandmother's house, so I'll have to fix it later, terribly sorry to everyone.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Still not getting hte LG cut
[info]phosfate
2003-09-22 07:14 pm UTC (link)
::headdesk::

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

hee!
[info]pet
2003-09-22 07:36 pm UTC (link)
My huge honkin' snortlaugh just got me some *very* strange looks at work, I'll have you know.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: hee!
[info]phosfate
2003-09-22 11:16 pm UTC (link)
Oh dear.

::offers you gum::

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Still not getting hte LG cut
[info]loafing_oaf
2003-09-22 08:36 pm UTC (link)
I notice in your Aug 7 journal entry of the same wank you have managed to use cut tags.

Perhaps you could just delete the FW entry and start again, with cut tags and without personal emails.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Still not getting hte LG cut
(Anonymous)
2003-09-22 09:16 pm UTC (link)
But.. but... mailing list != yahoo group. Yahoo groups function as an unholy crossbreed of a message board and a mailing list, depending on what options the individual members enable.

The banned person in question could have been using the group in message board mode, not received any e-mails from anyone, and been completely unaware that yahoo was sending these messages out unsnipped to the people who were accepting the messages in e-mail form. In which case his/her/its worst offense is OT posting.

Also.. lj-cut is perfectly simple to anyone with a basic HTML knowledge, really.

Alas, this has the flavor of a personal grudge rather than a wank, when all the information is out.

=^-^= Kittykat

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Still not getting the LG cut
[info]elffromspace
2003-09-23 06:28 am UTC (link)
THe LJ cuts seemed exceptionally simple which is why I got so annoyed that they didn't seem to be working. Now it seems that they WERE working.. I just didn't realize that when I clicked the link to look at the changes it would show up as if the LG cuts weren't there because I was seeing the full page version. There's a difference between being stupid and being new at something and in a hurry to help my nearly blind grandmother set up her reading machine so that she can actually see the text on the mail she gets. But I don't really care. This is what fandom wank is for isn't it? Wanks entertaining themselves by observing other wanks.

Secondly I fully admit to being a wank in my banning notice. I usually am a lot more composed, but this was a 3rd warning by me for the particular individual combined with three warnings by the other moderators which I had seen copies of. I'm pretty tolerant of ignorance and other newbie symptoms, but when I waste that much time telling someone not to send forwards, and they go and send another. Yes I'm a wank too ^_^

Thirdly I'll try not to post private emails again. I guess I didn't really consider these private, as they were sent to all 5 of the group moderators, rather than to my own email account. And the messages struck me as so immature I just really wanted to share with someone.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Still not getting the LG cut
[info]irk
2003-09-23 06:39 pm UTC (link)
There's a difference between being stupid and being new at something and in a hurry to help my nearly blind grandmother set up her reading machine so that she can actually see the text on the mail she gets. But I don't really care.

Now, whether or not you mean it too, this sounds really defensive. It bears a lot of similarity to the "Well, my parents/siblings/lover/friend/dog/goldfish died! Now I bet you all feel really bad!" type of whine. And that's pretty cheesy, and pretty damn wanky. You need to think about these thins before you post them, because I bet they're the same damn things you hate seeing done on your yahoo lists. It may not be intentional, but here on f_w all we have to go on is what you say. And that's what you said.

You say you are a newbie. That's fine. Everyone screws up. You also said that on your lists, you send someone the rules right before you join. It seemed like you were saying that you would prefer that be the case here, as if it were our fault for not magically sending you the rules when you joined. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works here. It's the poster's responsibility to control their own actions here. If you want an education, you have to seek it out yourself. It shouldn't be our job to hand-feed you the instructions. For one, to even join the community, you have to be on the page that has our Snarky Bill of Rights. We kind of expect you to read that when you see it! nn; I know it doesn't explicitly cover everything, but that's because you can learn a lot of this through reading the posts in the community. We also expect you to have done this. It would be silly not to have looked at what you were planning on participating in, right? Reading the JF FAQ is also a good idea. These things are just plain common sense and expecting you to do them is not very demanding of us.

In the end, you're making a lot of fumbles that I think you yourself, again, complain about when they happen in yahoo. Please keep that in mind. Also please keep in mind that it is not in f_w's nature to automatically accept all of your actions and motivations just because you're a member. Also, some members may be neutral to you, like you, or hate you on sight, just like in real life.

As for self-wanking within a post, I think most of you error was in not including all of your email replies to the girl. When you post a wank about a conversation, you need to post both sides of that conversation. If you don't, it looks pretty damn one-sided, and we get suspicious. Also, you say that you were wanky in the comments - if you are self-wanking, please admit to that very clearly in the post itself. It saves a lot of trouble and presents a clearer image of where you're coming from. It also just makes you look more honest, which counts for a lot.

In general, just, you know, think, and listen. I certainly don't want to scare you away since we seem to have a mutual friend, since Ryo Hoshi and I chat a lot and beta each other's Slayers fics. :D I was actually glad to see you here! So take your ribs and learn from the experience and it'll all turn out fine.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Still not getting the LG cut
[info]irk
2003-09-23 09:18 pm UTC (link)
Damn...that reply was almost as long as the wank... c_c;;; Heh heh...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Still not getting hte LG cut
[info]raisedbyhyenas
2003-09-23 02:26 am UTC (link)
It only takes a two-digit IQ to FOLLOW THE FREAKING DIRECTIONS ABOVE. Jesus CHRIST. And you're a listmom?! I feel for your poor inbred brood.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]zana16
2003-09-22 08:30 pm UTC (link)
And trust me, I didn’t have any grammatical errors in my message.

Oops! Soda on the computer screen.

(Reply to this)


[info]feenix
2003-09-22 09:37 pm UTC (link)
...aside from the bad posting form (my eyes!!!), I think...even though she was a bitch, you did bring the wank on yourself by being that way in the banning notice. Also: you didn't show your reply, which smacks even more of wankery.

But...yeah. She just was a moron on full blast. Which is why I don't get myself more involved with fandom (hey, I don't like cum on my face, okay?)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]zannechaos
2003-09-23 12:38 am UTC (link)
::casually glances at the icon...reads the text:: "...follow all the steady flow of wank so grim and shocking..."

... that cadence is disturbingly fam-- "O Gryffindor, my Gryffindor"... ::FACEVAULTS!, rolling on the ground laughing hysterically!::

Your icon? I LOVE it!!!

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