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Becca Stareyes (beccastareyes) wrote in fandom_wank,
@ 2003-09-24 11:21:00

Current mood:	Amazed
Entry tags:	anime/manga, boobies, not sure how to tag, sexism

Let's all point at the newbie...
Hello, obligatory newbie post. But, I come bearing a mini-wank.

Anime Fanservice... Probably listed under things you should not ask about at a gaming board...

Guardians of Order is a company that makes roleplaying books, among them an anime role-playing system called Big Eyes Small Mouth. They maintain message board on their sites where fans can exchange information.

It isn't unusual to see fans as for anime recommendations, and that's how it started. A new member asked about anime he could watch with his girlfriend -- with one minor stipulation. His girlfriend equated female nudity/fanservicy shots with sexism, so he asked for series that didn't have any of that. While we were all mentally running through our anime colections to check for nudity, some comments were made on the peculiarity of the request... well... it spiraled downward and became the Big Battle between this Guy and his Repressed Hyper-Sensitive Girlfriend and the Intolerant Misogynist Bigots.

(Post a new comment)

shoiryu
2003-09-24 07:44 pm UTC (link)

Differences in other cultures shouldn't be tolerated at all, if they conflict with your own views! It's the AMERICAN WAY!

(Yes, Japan is a VERY sexist nation. No, this does not effect my extreme interest in the culture, or my enjoyment of series that contain nudity and/or "sexism".)

....I'd love to sit THIS happy couple down with some hardcore yaoi anime. XD

(Reply to this)(Thread)

teratologist
2003-09-24 08:07 pm UTC (link)

.... on the other hand, I wish there were a forum where I could post something like, you know, where can I get some good thoughtful material that's NOT Man Bites Dog or Signs and not have eveyone immediately assuming that I am Teh Eevol PC Censor ov Doom. Hello, I can distinguish between Art the Artist has a right to create (basically anything) and Art that I personally want to watch. And since I certainly don't have time to watch everything in this life, why not spend my time watching stuff I'll enjoy rather than stuff that'll make me cringe? We're not playing slaps here.

(Way to make it all about ME, huh? Seriously, no nudity at all does sound a bit extreme, but hell, who am I to judge? My boyfriend can't watch anything with needles in it.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

iczer6, 2003-09-24 08:38 pm UTC

teratologist, 2003-09-24 09:39 pm UTC

kannaophelia, 2003-09-25 05:09 pm UTC

lots42, 2003-09-25 02:08 am UTC

	(Anonymous) 2003-09-24 08:09 pm UTC (link)
	....I'd love to sit THIS happy couple down with some hardcore yaoi anime. XD Well the girl wouldn't have to endure fanservice of the female kind :P (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

rann, 2003-09-24 11:47 pm UTC

ataniell93
2003-09-25 02:51 am UTC (link)

Japan is sexist and non-sexist in different ways than America. I have had Japanese boyfriends who were supportive and claimed to be sexist and American boyfriends who talked feminista real well but thought they were 'helping' when asked to do dishes they'd eaten from.

And the last time I was grabbed on an underground train it was going from SF to Oakland. Nudity is just not the same kind of big deal in the culture. In anime, panty shots are dirtier than nudity. Panty shots are always there for the pervs.

So...anyone dare me to tell him to rent AiKa for his GF?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

iczer6
2003-09-24 08:23 pm UTC (link)

I have nothing to add but the girlfriend needs a giant does of 'Get the FUCK over yourself!.

Also: -Its never male nudity. That's the point. (Well, ok, not "never' but statistically close enough).-

So she's never seen anime like Ai no Kusabi, Yami no Matsuei, FAKE, and she missed things like Michealanglo's David and the Sistine Chaple.

I have more sympathy for her if the whole thing didn't sound like 'boobies BAD, people who like to look at boobies EVAL!'

Icz

Must control urge to bitchslap

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	irk 2003-09-24 08:32 pm UTC (link)
	So she's never seen anime like Ai no Kusabi, Yami no Matsuei, FAKE... I don't know. X3 Do you think her boyfriend would go for those? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	amasaglajax 2003-09-24 10:16 pm UTC (link)
	Hey, I like boobies. (Reply to this)(Parent)

irk
2003-09-24 08:41 pm UTC (link)

Dude, if the girlfriend has such boobiephobia, then they could still easily spend quite awhile watching all of Ghibli's releases. And I don't think Kodomo no Omacha has boobies...does it? Unfortunately, this cuts a lot of mahou shoujo [even practically g-rated mahou shoujo] out.

I kind of understand what's happening here - she probably has only seen the stereotypical shots and clips from anime, and thus things it's all tits and tentacles and explosions. A few good feautures should show her that this isn't so - and gradual introduction to other anime will teach her that seeing tits won't make you die.

But anyways. Sexism in anime wank! Huzzah!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	phosfate 2003-09-24 08:51 pm UTC (link)
	Good God! How dare you be reasonable and practical about the question? Don't you know you're just supporting the girlfriend's obvious racism and unreasonable fears about sex? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

irk, 2003-09-24 08:55 pm UTC

Oh, and before I forget... -

irk, 2003-09-24 09:03 pm UTC

Re: Oh, and before I forget... -

phosfate, 2003-09-24 09:13 pm UTC

Re: Oh, and before I forget... -

starherd, 2003-09-24 09:34 pm UTC

Re: Oh, and before I forget... -

irk, 2003-09-24 09:42 pm UTC

Re: Oh, and before I forget... -

starherd, 2003-09-24 10:59 pm UTC

Re: Oh, and before I forget... -

mariagoner, 2003-09-25 05:11 am UTC

backfromspace, 2003-09-26 03:31 am UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-24 09:14 pm UTC

phosfate, 2003-09-24 10:50 pm UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-24 10:58 pm UTC

starherd, 2003-09-24 11:04 pm UTC

kyuuketsukirui, 2003-09-25 06:22 am UTC

	amand_r 2003-09-24 10:15 pm UTC (link)
	But it's not good anime unless there's tentacles! Wah! I need me some hentai tentacle lovin'. Blargh. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	bitca 2003-09-25 05:14 am UTC (link)
	WORD. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rinoared
2003-09-24 09:02 pm UTC (link)

Uh-uh. I've seen this conversation before. It was just as wanky back then.

I wonder if this woman can look at the tv. There's lots of bare female skin out there, even boobies!

Oh, but silly me, of course it would be ok, because it's not those perverted, animated boobies!

I join the chorus of "get the fuck over it or make boyfriend watch some yaoi with you", because these things never go the other way. That is, that showing male bits would be sexist and Deeply Wrong.

My icon, it shows the way!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	starherd 2003-09-25 02:27 am UTC (link)
	worships the icon (Reply to this)(Parent)

starherd
2003-09-24 09:45 pm UTC (link)

I'm not signed up on EZBoard, but I'd desperately like to make some serious recommendations for her - anyone who can post, I encourage/beg you to cut and paste the following:

------------------------------
I recommend the serieses Yami no Matsuei (available in the US as Descendants of Darkness),
Mirage of Blaze, and Legend of the Blue Wolves (if you can find it; it's sometimes known as
Legend of the Four Horsemen). YnM is (essentially) a supernatural detective show, Mirage is about feudal Japanese war and love surviving to the present day via reincarnation, and Blue Wolves is a one-shot SciFi piece about the difficulties of relationships/living during a war (they never made the sequel that they advertise at the end). (Sadly, Blue Wolves is only available as a fan-sub, at the moment, but I might be able to find it for you.)

None of these series contain any female nudity whatsoever.
-------------------------------------

...if they decided that they wanted to watch Legend of Blue Wolves, so help me, I'd send them a VCD. These people need to see some hardcore yaoi. >: )

(Reply to this)(Thread)

amasaglajax, 2003-09-24 10:18 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-09-24 10:43 pm UTC

starherd, 2003-09-24 10:56 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-09-24 11:07 pm UTC

nekoneko, 2003-09-24 11:29 pm UTC

heyoka, 2003-09-24 11:57 pm UTC

irk, 2003-09-25 12:30 am UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-25 12:49 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-09-25 12:50 am UTC

irk, 2003-09-25 01:39 am UTC

rinoared, 2003-09-25 10:53 am UTC

iris, 2003-09-25 11:13 pm UTC

rogue
2003-09-25 12:45 am UTC (link)

I've seen more naked men in anime than I have women. But, you have to remember, that in Japan, showing boobs in tv and movies is no big deal - guys can show their chests, so can girls. People frickin' go sit naked with each other and wash each other in bath houses in Japan, so of course they're going to be much more relaxed with nudity, and probably have a lot of humor centered around it. If you are an adult who has to have your foreign cartoons screened for even the slightest nudity, you have a problem. I don't see how you can enjoy anything if you're going to be on edge about possible sexual discrimination suddenly popping up.

(Reply to this)

	lots42 2003-09-25 02:12 am UTC (link)
	Poor guy is probably so whipped. (Reply to this)(Thread)

starherd, 2003-09-25 02:43 am UTC

rogue, 2003-09-25 04:12 am UTC

	visp 2003-09-25 02:33 am UTC (link)
	Meh, he's whipped and she has issues. I'll just be glad I'm not them and move on to enjoy my New Ranma 1/2 book (which beat the animes, no contest) (Reply to this)

fandom_bitch
2003-09-25 03:43 am UTC (link)

Heh, while I totally thought "whatta wank!" through reading that discussion, I could also see some of what buddy there was saying. There is a double standard about how much nudity is shown from male to female (especially in North American films). What bothered me more was the whole assumption that men cannot control their lusty urges and thoughts and therefore that makes all female nudity wrong and sexist. That would have offended basically all the men I know that aren't gay. (I won't get into the whole "she's got issues" debate, whatever floats her boat, floats it, but I DID consider it weird and wonder what issues she had with her own body and with sex. Then I realised, I really don't wanna know.)

And I dunno what porn they've seen, but I see a lot of full frontal in your face guy dick when I watch porn or look at pornographic magazines. There ain't no hiding of anything there, let me tell you. It's all there in God's Full Glory to see and they ain't hidin' where it's goin' either. :P Besides, hasn't this guy heard of strip clubs with male dancers. Been there, done that and yes, Virginia, they take it ALL off! Full Monty, woohoo!

As for anime, yeah, there's a lot of nudity and all but I don't think "ew" or consider it "gratuitous". Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. You can USUALLY one from the other at any rate.

But that's just my very opinionated opinion. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

virago, 2003-09-25 05:23 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

virago, 2003-09-25 05:24 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

iczer6, 2003-09-25 06:19 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

starherd, 2003-09-25 07:21 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

iczer6, 2003-09-25 07:39 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

htrismegistus, 2003-09-25 11:47 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

virago, 2003-09-25 08:27 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

rinoared, 2003-09-25 10:48 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

htrismegistus, 2003-09-25 11:38 am UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

rinoared, 2003-09-25 12:06 pm UTC

Re: Tangent of the bitter fangirl -

starherd, 2003-09-25 11:52 pm UTC

dawnswalker
2003-09-25 07:14 am UTC (link)

Well, I don't think it's really all that big a deal that the guy asked for something without nudity in it... I mean, maybe he's trying to get the girlfriend interested in his hobby, and figures that it would be easier to get her hooked on the stuff that doesn't have nudity and gratitious fanservice than the stuff that does?

Then again, the whole "she thinks it's sexiiiiiist and eeeeeeevil!" angle does make one wonder. How many anime shows can you watch if you absolutely won't watch any fanservice or even unsexualized nudity? I think even Pokemon has a couple of "bath house" episodes, doesn't it?

...Someone so has to recommend "Revolutionary Girl Utena" to them.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

iczer6, 2003-09-25 08:14 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-09-25 04:33 pm UTC

	folk 2003-09-25 08:30 am UTC (link)
	Um, not to be a whiny cow, but that long EZboard link's making my browser window scroll in ways that are wider than my ass (i.e., quite wide). Could you turn it into a shorter link via an A HREF? (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: -

beccastareyes, 2003-09-25 03:19 pm UTC

Re: -

folk, 2003-09-25 03:33 pm UTC

	(Anonymous) 2003-09-25 11:29 am UTC (link)
	You'll find there aren't many peoblems in life that you can't solve by looking at them a differnt way. Well, except things like cancer and freak lightnight stikes... those pretty much always suck. I just think that's the funniest line in the whole discussion. AHAHAHAHA. Yes, those lightnight stikes are a bitch. - kay_taylor from LJ. (Reply to this)(Thread)

phosfate, 2003-09-25 05:12 pm UTC

oxydosic
2003-09-25 03:17 pm UTC (link)

I don't think there's anything wrong with the girl wanting to find anime that doesn't have the kind of content she's uncomfortable with, and i think it's kind of silly people are yelling that she's repressed and prejudiced because it's not what she wants to watch.

I personally do not mind boobies in my anime. My issue is with some anime portraying young children in a sexual light...or characters who look like little kids being portrayed that way. I don't think the Japanese mean it to be perverse or pedophilic in any way, but it makes me uncomfortable.

I know, i just opened up a can of worms *goes to hide*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

phosfate, 2003-09-25 05:10 pm UTC

kannaophelia, 2003-09-25 05:19 pm UTC

Re: -

beccastareyes, 2003-09-25 05:28 pm UTC

kannaophelia, 2003-09-25 05:34 pm UTC

phosfate, 2003-09-25 08:18 pm UTC

oxydosic, 2003-09-25 05:35 pm UTC

rogue, 2003-09-25 06:47 pm UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-25 09:27 pm UTC

(no subject) - ataniell93, 2003-09-26 06:52 am UTC

	Um... feenix 2003-09-25 08:09 pm UTC (link)
	...maybe it's just me, but just about EVERY series (and I mean, down to Pokemon and Hamtaro) has fanservice. And I mean EVERY series. So, I'd recommend skipping the Japanimation and watching Teletubbies instead. (Reply to this)(Thread)

starherd, 2003-09-25 11:38 pm UTC

iczer6, 2003-09-26 06:01 am UTC

feenix, 2003-09-26 06:21 am UTC

	setsunastar 2003-09-25 09:56 pm UTC (link)
	... gotta love Eidorian, resident Cassandra: Eidorian: coughs Flame War coughs austinmonster: No, I'm not trying to start a war... Just trying to challenge people's ways of thinking. Eidorian: I'm simply trying to advert a disaster in here. Please carry on. (Reply to this)

	uniquesnowflake 2003-09-26 01:37 am UTC (link)
	Dude, I see more naked female skin in the average issue of Teen People or Vogue Magazine, and these are marketed mostly for women. I'm not saying this girl is damaged. However, I definitely would want to laugh at her if I met her, because I rather like nudie scenes, female or male. And for this misguided youth of a man? He needs to learn about two little words- "Gay Porn". (Reply to this)

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