esorlehcar
2003-10-09 03:46 am UTC (link)

I've always been frightened of that community. I get not wanting or liking children. I don't get pathologically hating children, anyone who chooses to have children, and anyone who doesn't hate both children and anyone who chooses to have them. I'm sure that's not the case with the majority of the community, but it certainly fits a number of them.

Of course, the fact that I learned of the community's existence from a rave review by someone who hated children to the point that she once giggled at a news report of a two-year-old killed by a drunk driver and said, "Well, it's a start" probably didn't help much.

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kerikeri
2003-10-09 03:57 am UTC (link)

I'm biased since I'm a regular there, but it doesn't really seem that way to me. There are psychos and extremists, but every group has those to a certain degree, and there are also a lot of interesting and smart people who post there. And I've seen childfree groups that were much worse about the parent- and kid-bashing. Some people on the community like to use crude, inflammatory language, but it's easy to overlook those posts and focus on the interesting, worthy stuff.

And I honestly haven't met a single person over there who takes pleasure in hearing about or seeing kids getting hurt or killed. In fact, there are posts nearly every day linking to news articles about abused or neglected kids, and the response is always very sympathetic to the child(ren) and angry at the cruel, ignorant parent(s).

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Utterly and completly OT. -

flax, 2003-10-09 05:28 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-09 06:47 am UTC

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flax, 2003-10-09 10:56 am UTC

	lots42 2003-10-09 05:14 am UTC (link)
	Thank you for realizing not all childfree people are identical (Reply to this)(Parent)

lampbane
2003-10-09 07:56 am UTC (link)

I think WaitingWomb scares me more than ChildFree. I mean, hell, there's some 20 year old girl (20!?!?) there who wants a kid desperately, has miscarried twice, and calls her man selfish because he doesn't feel ready for a kid yet. (How dare he!) And she named the two miscarrages. ::sigh::

I'm almost 23, and really want kids but won't bother for many, many years... except that the existence of people like that in the world kinda makes me NOT want to have kids. And yes, I know this comment is somewhat wanky, but hell, I'm reminded of why I try to stay in my little corner of LJ (all anime and HP fandom).

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P.S. - lampbane, 2003-10-09 08:00 am UTC

Re: P.S. - lampbane, 2003-10-09 08:07 am UTC

Re: P.S. -

iczer6, 2003-10-09 07:45 pm UTC

Re: P.S. - (Anonymous), 2003-10-09 08:23 am UTC

Re: P.S. -

starherd, 2003-10-09 12:02 pm UTC

Re: P.S. -

peacockharpy, 2003-10-09 09:48 pm UTC

Re: P.S. -

kerikeri, 2003-10-09 10:22 pm UTC

Re: P.S. -

peacockharpy, 2003-10-11 10:50 pm UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-09 08:47 am UTC

*nods* -

candy, 2003-10-09 09:11 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-09 06:02 pm UTC

	"i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for me." feenix 2003-10-09 03:55 am UTC (link)
	...is it just me, or did anone else find the first comment to be extremely wanky? I mean...she's pretty much asking for the characters to conform to her view of reality. WTF? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m jfpbookworm 2003-10-09 04:55 am UTC (link)
	I don't think she was saying that a happy ending can't involve having kids. More a complaint that it always does, as if any ending that doesn't involve settling down and having children can't be a completely happy one. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m -

deejay435, 2003-10-09 05:27 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-09 05:40 am UTC

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deejay435, 2003-10-09 07:02 am UTC

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iczer6, 2003-10-09 07:41 am UTC

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iczer6, 2003-10-09 08:42 am UTC

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deejay435, 2003-10-10 03:10 am UTC

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m -

rhi_silverflame, 2003-10-09 08:15 am UTC

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m -

deejay435, 2003-10-10 03:12 am UTC

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m -

jfpbookworm, 2003-10-09 07:08 pm UTC

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m -

esseilte, 2003-10-09 08:42 pm UTC

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m -

dejla, 2003-10-09 09:16 pm UTC

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m - (Anonymous), 2003-10-10 01:43 am UTC

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m -

deejay435, 2003-10-10 03:16 am UTC

	Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m lots42 2003-10-09 05:13 am UTC (link)
	Well, look at the name of the group. Childfree. Only realistic she'd want books where wanting kid and or having kids is not the topic. Hell, I do to. It's a rare book starring a kid that I can actually tolerate. (It'd have to be written extremely well, like Stephen King and even then I'd check out what else was available) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: "i don't think the 'happy ending' should have kids at all. that's not happy. at least, not for m - (Anonymous), 2003-10-10 05:51 am UTC

	rowan 2003-10-09 03:59 am UTC (link)
	O_o What the shit is that? As a fantasy writer, I take wanky offense at being told that the real world offers more variety and richness than all the realms of human imagination. :P Fantasy is more than Dungeons and Dragons, people, and even THAT can have more than you'd think in the hands of a clever GM. :P (Reply to this)

	dawnswalker 2003-10-09 04:38 am UTC (link)
	I don't like bugs, so from now on, I refuse to read any fantasy novel in which the main characters encounter insects, go camping, or sit around an open fire. waits for authors to cater to her specific interests (Reply to this)(Thread)

kerikeri
2003-10-09 04:45 am UTC (link)

Heh. Well, I'll admit I can understand that when every happy ending you read inevitably involves children, you start to get the feeling that the entire industry is saying "happiness = children".

But I suppose it is kind of wanky to expect to be specifically catered to like that... then again, it was just a vent, not "I'm going to go kidnap some fantasy writers and make them write this for me right now!"

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kyuuketsukirui, 2003-10-09 04:54 am UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-09 04:56 am UTC

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diamonde, 2003-10-09 06:00 am UTC

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rann, 2003-10-09 04:16 pm UTC

sarajayechan
2003-10-09 04:46 am UTC (link)

Well, the majority of people who read fantasy fiction are losers. The majority of losers (and of people in general) anticipate having kids. They see having kids as a positive and necessary part of existence.

A suggestion: quit reading that shit and read real books. Real books = no dragons, no elves, no dwarves (unless they're just people with a genetic mistake), no magic, no sorcery, etc. Read a book about humans interacting with other humans. Stay away from books available in grocery stores and Wal-Mart. Go to a real book store, go to the fiction section, and avoid all things fantasy. You'll find a much wider variety of outcomes to the stories than "the guy gets the girl" and "the girl has a baby."

Oh, jeez. If there's one thing I hate it's people like that. "I think what you're into is lame, so I demand you stop reading/watching/listening to/playing it and get into something I think is cool." Idiots. People aren't gonna try new things just cause you nag them!

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	deejay435 2003-10-09 05:33 am UTC (link)
	The funny bit of that wank was among the books she listed on her 'approved reading list'. 1984 Farenheit 451 Once and Future King But not any fantasy or sci-fi! No way baby! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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terminal_frost, 2003-10-09 05:49 am UTC

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deejay435, 2003-10-09 06:41 am UTC

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iczer6, 2003-10-09 07:46 am UTC

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mydarkstar, 2003-10-09 09:27 pm UTC

teratologist
2003-10-09 09:07 am UTC (link)

You know.... I've decided that books about humans and their fucking interactions are hideously tedious. I demand everyone stop reading them right now and fucking switch to wildlife population biology texts (you can start with undergrad level if you're lusers) and Isaac Asimov's analysis of Shakespeare. Otherwise, I shall sneer down my nose at all and fucking sundry.

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diamonde, 2003-10-09 04:06 pm UTC

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teratologist, 2003-10-10 04:51 am UTC

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phosfate, 2003-10-09 06:26 pm UTC

azusa
2003-10-09 06:35 pm UTC (link)

Go to a real book store, go to the fiction section, and avoid all things fantasy. You'll find a much wider variety of outcomes to the stories than "the guy gets the girl" and "the girl has a baby."

Oh, you mean like the enormous glut of shelves in every bookstore set aside for two-bit romance novels which all end with that same plot? Seems to me the 'happy baby ending' is far more common in THAT genre than it ever was in fantasy.

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kerikeri, 2003-10-09 07:09 pm UTC

	psychofangirl 2003-10-09 04:48 am UTC (link)
	Most genre fiction isn't all that great. Whatever bad that's said about fantasy can also be said about romance, mystery, historical fiction, etc. It's a perspective thing though. One man's trash=another man's treasure. Course I don't consider haters of sci-fi/fantasy worth listening to. Won't stop me from reading/writing it. (Reply to this)

	mynxkittie 2003-10-09 04:56 am UTC (link)
	What makes this wank extra-crispy is that both Harry Potter and LOTR are mentioned. Albeit, not in a wanky sense, but it's the thought that counts. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	terminal_frost 2003-10-09 05:46 am UTC (link)
	No matter where you go, HP and LOTR will inevitably rear their heads. Bet J.R.R. and JKR are laughing at us from somewhere where we can't reach them... I know I would... (Reply to this)(Parent)

terminal_frost
2003-10-09 06:08 am UTC (link)

I've seen this "small minority" of roleplayers, and it's not the minority you think it is.

I wanna see this so-called not-quite-as-small-as-you'd-think minority here...

I've also seen the majority of people who read fantasy, and they're not what you think they are. They don't tend to be clean, socially competent, or able to dress themselves in clothes that are a color other than black (preferably with a cloak or trenchcoat).

I'm clean. My clothes are clean, and get this!! They're not all based on varying shades of black!! I've actually got COLOUR in my closet.

PS: I don't have a trenchcoat, as I can't afford one. I do however, own a leather jacket. Does that make me an evil person?

I spent years among these people. I've observed them. I'm familiar with this culture. If you think I'm not, consider this:

Mutual of Omaha's Fictional Kingdom.

"Today we're studying the elusive but eccentric fantasy fan. You can smell them a hundred yards off, and the fact that their monochromatic colouration causes them to stand out in a crowd makes them one of the more interesting species of geeks out there."

Rochester, New York, where I spent two years at college, was, as of 1999, home to 1% of all the Magic: the Gathering cards on the planet. Just that one city. Now, if you want to talk about the "small minority," and my "preconceived notions," try again. I know exactly who I'm talking about.

Like 1% of a population (or even a product) is any indication of the remaining 99%...

Go back and do some REAL research bucko...

After all, it's "real", and not "fantasy"... research...

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	tocomfortyou 2003-10-09 06:16 am UTC (link)
	Mutual of Omaha's Fictional Kingdom. Yeah, but you know that person was just the old guy who sat around and watched while the young, studly guy battled wild fangirls and tinhats. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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terminal_frost, 2003-10-09 06:20 am UTC

Re: - tocomfortyou, 2003-10-09 06:52 am UTC

Stay on topic, up, the only way is up! - (Anonymous), 2003-10-09 07:45 am UTC

Re: Stay on topic, up, the only way is up! - tocomfortyou, 2003-10-09 07:54 am UTC

diamonde
2003-10-09 06:22 am UTC (link)

THANK you. Magic: the what? I honestly have no idea what that shit is, and I've been reading fantasy/sci-fi since I learned to read. I also bathe and only own one long black coat. (It's leather. All shall envy me and despair!) Guess that makes me a sad, lonely minority?

If she wants to observe a cross-section of fantasy fans, she should observe the line-up at a Terry Pratchett signing. Those are cool. Last time I ran into a guy I knew from high school. He's a goth, I'm not, I'm taller, it was all good and chatty.

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deejay435, 2003-10-09 06:40 am UTC

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tempslut, 2003-10-09 06:43 am UTC

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deejay435, 2003-10-09 07:03 am UTC

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deejay435, 2003-10-10 03:20 am UTC

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teratologist, 2003-10-09 09:10 am UTC

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starherd, 2003-10-09 12:21 pm UTC

cape wearing -

karmakaze, 2003-10-09 04:58 pm UTC

Re: cape wearing - (Anonymous), 2003-10-09 10:30 pm UTC

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phosfate, 2003-10-09 06:30 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-10-09 07:30 pm UTC

OT -

sewingmyfish, 2003-10-10 04:13 am UTC

	(Anonymous) 2003-10-09 06:31 am UTC (link)
	Just stop complaining that they're writing to their audience. If they didn't, they wouldn't make any money, and that's all it's about: getting another $8 out of some kid (agewise or mentalitywise) for a few ounces of paper and 6 days of a writer's life. 6 days?! Man, I want to go to HER planet. When I think of all the time I've wasted... boo hoo (Reply to this)

	maev_connacht 2003-10-09 07:17 am UTC (link)
	I swear to god, if Faery Queen uses the word "dark" one more time, I'm going to take a cactus to her rectum. I read "dark" fiction. I read the darkidy dark darkingest dark fiction that ever darked. >_< (Reply to this)

	lampbane 2003-10-09 08:04 am UTC (link)
	Anyone think that the LJ community info for Childfree is a bit mean? I want to have kids some day, but I enjoy my FREEDOM right now. Freedom of time, freedom of money, etc. I actually agree with a lot of the stuff on the community, but I want kids too. Ugh. I hate divisionism. (Reply to this)(Thread)

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kerikeri, 2003-10-09 08:28 am UTC

Right, then! -

candy, 2003-10-09 09:16 am UTC

Wank Mode Engaged -

ieatpeople, 2003-10-09 01:04 pm UTC

Re: Wank Mode Engaged -

deslea, 2003-10-09 01:26 pm UTC

Wanker makes sweeping generalisations. Film at eleven. -

ieatpeople, 2003-10-09 02:03 pm UTC

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rann, 2003-10-09 04:22 pm UTC

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kerikeri, 2003-10-09 05:56 pm UTC

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limyaael, 2003-10-09 09:49 pm UTC

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darqstar, 2003-10-10 01:05 am UTC

Re: -

rann, 2003-10-10 01:10 am UTC

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darqstar, 2003-10-10 01:22 am UTC

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ieatpeople, 2003-10-10 01:29 am UTC

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teratologist, 2003-10-10 06:08 am UTC

Oh, Alton. -

ieatpeople, 2003-10-10 10:59 am UTC

Re: Oh, Alton. - (Anonymous), 2003-10-13 06:52 am UTC

(no subject) - lampbane, 2003-10-10 06:38 am UTC

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darqstar, 2003-10-10 12:54 am UTC

cmikhailovic
2003-10-10 08:03 am UTC (link)

Whenever anyone starts blithering about "teh classics," I want to ask them a) You haven't read any of them, have you? and b) How long, exactly, has your head been wedged up Harold Bloom's ass?

And someone really, really needs to clue this anti-fantasy moron in that many of Teh Classics -- a considerable chunk of Western literature up until the nineteenth century and the genre-izing of the publishing industry for example -- contain "fantastic" elements. The Odyssey? Macbeth? The Canterbury Tales? Grimms' Fairy Tales? And so on and so forth.

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OT -

sewingmyfish, 2003-10-10 09:27 am UTC

Re: OT -

cmikhailovic, 2003-10-11 08:12 am UTC

fandom_bitch
2003-10-10 09:54 am UTC (link)

Hmmm...let me see:

Likes Fantasy? check
Plays games like AD&D? Check
Wears black? Sometimes (is a very slimming colour)
Likes Adventure Flicks? Check
Likes Van Damme? Oh yeah!! (Nicest ass ever!)
Reads Classics? Yup...er...check. Love 'em actually.
Watches Bogart films? God no, I think they suck big ones, but I like other classic films!
Bathes on a regular basis? Check
Has greasy hair? Newp (The very opposite actually)
Is anti-social? Ahahahahahahahaha...*sniff* good one, no.
Is Goth? Sometimes...it's that slimming black thing, doancha know?
Gets meaning out of various genres of literature? Sure do.
Thinks Anne Rice is good readin'? *snerk*

You know, I did start this off with a point, but I've forgotten what it was. I guess according to "rwanat" I'm some sort of loser but with hope. Thing is, I probably read more of the so called "classics" than it has. Of course, a good many classics would get the label "fantasy" if they had been published today.

Sure a bunch of it is crap out there, but I like McDonalds once in a blue moon and I also like my brain candy. Besides, I love reading Dickens and there very intelligent people out there who think he is more boring than watching grass grow and would rather read Anne Rice. My favourite book of all time is Homer's "Iliad". There are Ph.D.s out there who look at me when I say this as if I'm off my nut, and they go on to tell me about the virtues of Stephen King novels (another author I do. not. like. at. all).

But I like my popular or genre fiction too and will read anything I can find by Wilbur Smith or Pauline Gedge, not to mention the numerous Tolkien knockoffs there are out there. Heh...And most of my original fiction is contemporary in nature. Generation X stuff if you will.

As for the original poster. I saw her as blowing off steam. I too would like to see a bit more variety in the endings of fantasy novels. Sort of like my complaint in fantasy art on the Chicks in Chainmail or warrior chicks with most of their body exposed and have the barest of coverage.

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