: James and Lily would make a cup dance on baby Dudley's head, make him cry and lock him in a cupboard
Snapedom issued a new challenge - Bullies and Fathers. This topic was suggested by![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif)
mary_j_59. She wrote:
What convinces so many people that Snape is a bully by nature, and abusive? And why do people like me - who can see that he actually does bully, and is even abusive on a couple of occasions - insist that, nevertheless, Severus is far more victim than perpetrator, and is neither habitually abusive, nor an habitual bully?
That seems to be the real gulf between the Snape lovers and the Snape haters, and it's a sore point.
And it actually goes along with Snape as a father. I'm sure that those who see Snape as bully would insist that Snape would be an abusive father, whereas I and others see him as struggling to break the chain of abuse -and succeeding. Again, Rowling would like us to see Harry this way, but she never shows us Harry holding back, being sorry, reconsidering his actions - all of which she actually does show us in Severus. So I can't buy the "happy family/Harry as good father" picture she tries to sell us in the epilogue. I can, on the other hand, see Snape as a good father, perhaps most of all because he does have a conscience (however rudimentary - this sets him apart from just about everyone in the Wizarding World) and is not afraid to discipline the children in his care.
sylvanawood added:
I would like to extend this topic to other fathers in the wizarding world. How about James? We know he was a bully, we are being told he was a good father. How do you see it?
How about Remus Lupin who ran away from his responsibility but later totally fell in love with his son?
And Arthur Weasley who is presented as the model father? Some call him hen-pecked, some Molly's eightst child. He certainly seems like the anti-bully. What do you think?
How about Lucius Malfoy? Would Sirius have been a good father or would he have lost interest when the child didn't turn out the way he wanted? Can you think of others?
Snapefen proceeded to answer that Snape was never a bully, that Lucius was a good father and that Arthur, Remus and Harry were bad fathers.pearlette and night_train_fm tried to disagree with that and were told that James and Lily would've abused Dudley, that Dumbledore wanted Harry to be abused by the Dursleys and sent Hagrid to Harry in order to make Harry emotionally dependent on Dumbledore, that the Wesleys are Gryffindor propagandists who forget nothing and learn nothing, that Albus Severus probably thinks that his father hates him because his relatives constantly diss Snape, that Draco is watching out at the Ministry, keeping Hermione's self-righteousness in check (and even JKR doesn't know about that). Never change, Snapefen!
ETA: marionros graced this wank with her loony presence.
ETA 2: sylvanawood thinks we all are stupid and lazy:
Discussing old topics again after a while will often give new ideas, so banning that or rolling your eyes over it is just as silly. We're not one of those communities who are too stupid and lazy to come up with their own stuff and thus find nothing better to do than to mock what others do, after all.
Snapedom issued a new challenge - Bullies and Fathers. This topic was suggested by
mary_j_59. She wrote:What convinces so many people that Snape is a bully by nature, and abusive? And why do people like me - who can see that he actually does bully, and is even abusive on a couple of occasions - insist that, nevertheless, Severus is far more victim than perpetrator, and is neither habitually abusive, nor an habitual bully?
That seems to be the real gulf between the Snape lovers and the Snape haters, and it's a sore point.
And it actually goes along with Snape as a father. I'm sure that those who see Snape as bully would insist that Snape would be an abusive father, whereas I and others see him as struggling to break the chain of abuse -and succeeding. Again, Rowling would like us to see Harry this way, but she never shows us Harry holding back, being sorry, reconsidering his actions - all of which she actually does show us in Severus. So I can't buy the "happy family/Harry as good father" picture she tries to sell us in the epilogue. I can, on the other hand, see Snape as a good father, perhaps most of all because he does have a conscience (however rudimentary - this sets him apart from just about everyone in the Wizarding World) and is not afraid to discipline the children in his care.
sylvanawood added:I would like to extend this topic to other fathers in the wizarding world. How about James? We know he was a bully, we are being told he was a good father. How do you see it?
How about Remus Lupin who ran away from his responsibility but later totally fell in love with his son?
And Arthur Weasley who is presented as the model father? Some call him hen-pecked, some Molly's eightst child. He certainly seems like the anti-bully. What do you think?
How about Lucius Malfoy? Would Sirius have been a good father or would he have lost interest when the child didn't turn out the way he wanted? Can you think of others?
Snapefen proceeded to answer that Snape was never a bully, that Lucius was a good father and that Arthur, Remus and Harry were bad fathers.
pearlette and night_train_fm tried to disagree with that and were told that James and Lily would've abused Dudley, that Dumbledore wanted Harry to be abused by the Dursleys and sent Hagrid to Harry in order to make Harry emotionally dependent on Dumbledore, that the Wesleys are Gryffindor propagandists who forget nothing and learn nothing, that Albus Severus probably thinks that his father hates him because his relatives constantly diss Snape, that Draco is watching out at the Ministry, keeping Hermione's self-righteousness in check (and even JKR doesn't know about that). Never change, Snapefen!ETA: marionros graced this wank with her loony presence.
ETA 2: sylvanawood thinks we all are stupid and lazy:
Discussing old topics again after a while will often give new ideas, so banning that or rolling your eyes over it is just as silly. We're not one of those communities who are too stupid and lazy to come up with their own stuff and thus find nothing better to do than to mock what others do, after all.